HELP me HELP you (TO ALL PREMEDICAL STUDENTS ACCEPTED OR UNACCEPTED)

[IzzyMD09]

At the upcoming AMSA convention I will be presenting a resolution to launch an investigation into the secondary application fee requirements which accompany secondary applications

In order to present a solid case, I need your help and I need it fast, just write a brief sentence for each of the following questions

How many schools did you apply to
How many interviews have you gotten
Have you been accepted
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that)

also feel free to right a paragraph or so on how the application process was for you

thanks so much, I really appreciate

izzy

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[alibaba]

I applied to 15 schools (the number suggested by my undergrad pre-med office). I estimate that I paid primary and secondary fees of @1500.
I received 8 interviews -I went to 7 @ a cost of about 500 each (air, hotel and taxi). I've been admitted to 5;waiting to hear from 3 though I assume rejections. I also paid for the Princeton Review MCAT class last spring. Its been a very expensive process. It would be great if you could get someone to focus on how hard this is on applicants.

 

[IzzyMD09]

so what was your total minus the personal stuff i already asked to be excluded

 

[Robizzle]

How many schools did you apply to
How many interviews have you gotten
Have you been accepted
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that)

Total primaries: 29
Total secondaries: 27?
Total interviews: 6
Have you been accepted: Yes
AMCAS$: $1000
Secondaries$: ~$2000 - 2200 (now that I think about it, this could be too high. either way, the total still came out to the # below)

Total Sum: $4239.27

Was it worth it?: Every penny.

Would I have liked it to be cheaper?: Yes please. I could have bought a 2 freakin' flatscreen TVs with that money.

 

[lina123321]

At the upcoming AMSA convention I will be presenting a resolution to launch an investigation into the secondary application fee requirements which accompany secondary applications

In order to present a solid case, I need your help and I need it fast, just write a brief sentence for each of the following questions

How many schools did you apply to--16
How many interviews have you gotten--4
Have you been accepted--N
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application 700? idont remember
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees--500
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that)--2000

also feel free to right a paragraph or so on how the application process was for you

thanks so much, I really appreciate

izzy

.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

How many schools did you apply to: 20
How many interviews have you gotten: 0
Have you been accepted: No
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application: ~$750
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees: ~$1200
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): MCAT prep: ~$1750, Travel: $0 (no interviews), Lodging: $0 (no interviews), Application Stuff (stamps, envelopes, photos, University LOR Service, other misc "stuff"): $150
Grand Total: $3850

I'll go through the process again because I want to be a physician, but the costs are outrageous. I understand the only thing the medical schools can control is their secondary fees, but come on...how much money do you need to extract from pre-med hopefuls? Why take money from people who will go into severe personal debt (especially since many have no income) and have no guarantees they'll ever get in?

 

[IzzyMD09]

thats exactly why i am doing this
its not a matter of was it worth it
its a matter of if its fair to tax students who cant afford to be taxed and for no good reason
thanks for the info
if you have friends on here please tell them about this survey

izzy

 

[Psycho Doctor]

How many schools did you apply to: 20
How many interviews have you gotten: 0
Have you been accepted: No
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application: ~$750
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees: ~$1200
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): MCAT prep: ~$1750, Travel: $0 (no interviews), Lodging: $0 (no interviews), Application Stuff (stamps, envelopes, photos, University LOR Service, other misc "stuff"): $150
Grand Total: $3850

I'll go through the process again because I want to be a physician, but the costs are outrageous. I understand the only thing the medical schools can control is their secondary fees, but come on...how much money do you need to extract from pre-med hopefuls? Why take money from people who will go into severe personal debt (especially since many have no income) and have no guarantees they'll ever get in?

I'm really sorry about your situation. I thought I read you had decent stats; why do you think you didn't get an interview? I know a lot of it is a crapshoot but that plain doesn't make sense.

 

[aglaiaer]

.

 

[pirata]

How many schools did you apply to: 14
How many interviews have you gotten: 9
Have you been accepted? Yes.
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application: $560?
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees: $755
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): Total? Scary thought, but about $3800

 

[nubbey24]

Applied to 20 schools= $700

Secondaries to 18 schools = $1,400

6 Interviews: $3,300 (5 of these were on the east coast, and I live in Oregon)

Acceptances: 3

Waitlist: 2

Waiting to hear: 1

MCAT prep: Didn't do a prep course but still managed to spend roughly $750 including prep books and cost of taking test.

Grand Total: $6,150

This is an absolutely absurd amount of money and does not include money I had to spend on a suit. What the schools don't realize is that Airfare is unbelievably expensive, and then taxi rides and hotels on top of that are also a large expense. I tried to bring trail mix and eat it for every meal, so that I didn't have to buy food and this is still the total I came to!!! If I would have eaten out like most applicants, this would have been about 200-300 bigger. Anyway...thanks for sticking up for us, and I hope there is some type of reform in this process. Unfortunately I also strongly feel that a large portion of this is a neccesary evil in order to truly evaluate the applicants.

So in the end...I am glad that I had the chance to interview because I feel that it helped me get a leg up on applicants that maybe had better stats but zero personality, but I wish I didn't have to spend all that money.

Thanks,

Nubs

 

[alwaysaangel]

How many schools did you apply to: Sent in 18 secondaries
How many interviews have you gotten: Received 6 interviews, went to 3 of those
Have you been accepted: Yes
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application: $680
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees: $1500
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): MCAT Prep (1,800), Travel (1100), Lodging (300). So 3,200 total for everything else.

Grand total: $5,380

It was spread out and I didn't think it was ridiculous. I didn't HAVE to take the prep course which cost $1,600, that was a choice. Plus I got a job out of that class through which I have more than made the prep class money back.

AMCAS + Secondaries got tough since they all came at once. My only real complaint with that is that schools need to all offer paying by credit card as an option. I got caught up once or twice when I didn't have enough money in my checking to write checks to schools that had no credit card payment option.

Travel I can't complain about since 2 of the 3 trips I took turned into mini vacations for myself (I didn't include costs for the additional nights). It would have been all of them but I couldn't put the New York trip on a weekend to make it a weekend vacation with my best friend.

So overall, yes it gets a little steep, but I think its fair. They have to take the time to review the applications etc. Mostly I just wish I hadn't applied to so many places - I would have saved almost $900 if I hadn't applied to all the schools I ended up withdrawing from.

 

[WCGee]

How many schools did you apply to: 20
How many interviews have you gotten: 9
Have you been accepted: 4
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application: 900
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees: 1,500
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): 3,500 (The mcat prep course pushes it over)

 

[albe]

How many schools did you apply to: 9
How many interviews have you gotten: 2
Have you been accepted: yes
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application: $370
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees: $680
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): about $4100 total

 

[IzzyMD09]

So overall, yes it gets a little steep, but I think its fair. They have to take the time to review the applications etc. Mostly I just wish I hadn't applied to so many places - I would have saved almost $900 if I hadn't applied to all the schools I ended up withdrawing from.

I really appreciate your feedback, it will help a lot, but I was wondering if you could elaborate a little on your financial work and economic background, feel free to private message me. The poing of this resolution is to make the medical application process fair. Obviously those that can afford more applications will apply to more schools, and those that cant well, they cant really apply, especially when a secondary fee is required for application review.

Maybe you can elaborate on how you think it is fair a little bit more, your comments would be more than beneficial

thanks

izzy

 

[lilnoelle]

How many schools did you apply to: 4
How many interviews have you gotten: 2
Have you been accepted: yes
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application: $260
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees: $150
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): ~$700.

I'm one of those that just couldn't afford to apply broadly or go to interviews that weren't within less than a days drive. I also couldn't afford to take the MCAT prep course. I refused to put things on a credit card and didn't have anyone to help me out. (Note, I am married and we were both working at the time but we also have two children to provide for and neither of us had large incomes) I was accepted (and am an M1 this year, so technically am not a premed) but I was lucky. I could have probably applied to recieve a waiver but upbringing led me not to do so.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

How many schools did you apply to

17 on primary, finished 15 secondaries

How many interviews have you gotten

10 offers

Have you been accepted

Accepted to 5, waitlist at 1

How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application

Primary app took about 600 bucks

How much money did you spend on secondary application fees

~$1450 total

How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that)

Kaplan - $850
Travel/lodging ~ $600
Miscellaneous (non-personal) ~ $300

So about $3800 total.

also feel free to right a paragraph or so on how the application process was for you

The process is going well for me, I'm pretty happy with my results though I am still waiting. I do feel it is extremely expensive. I wholeheartedly disliked the fact that I spend about 100 bucks on each secondary and all I get for lunch are soggy wraps or dry cafetaria food. It'd doesn't have to be Zagat rated, but could we have a little variety here ? I had to work a high(er) paying summer job last summer to pay for all of this. I do take comfort in that I'm not in this alone and that money is tight for most of us.

 

[Snowboarder]

How many schools did you apply to 20
How many interviews have you gotten 2
Have you been accepted Not yet
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application $700
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees $1725
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that) Not including above expenses, $2630

 

[alwaysaangel]

I really appreciate your feedback, it will help a lot, but I was wondering if you could elaborate a little on your financial work and economic background, feel free to private message me. The poing of this resolution is to make the medical application process fair. Obviously those that can afford more applications will apply to more schools, and those that cant well, they cant really apply, especially when a secondary fee is required for application review.

Maybe you can elaborate on how you think it is fair a little bit more, your comments would be more than beneficial

thanks

izzy

My family has been below the 200% poverty line my entire life (200% poverty line is the limit for just about every type of financial aid in existence). This year because I worked more than usual over the summer to pay for my MCAT prep course my family ended up being $500 over it. If you know about the fee assistance program, the 200% poverty line is the limit. So in other words - if I had made $500 less that year I wouldn't have had to pay for most of my primaries or any of my secondaries. That sucked. So no, my perspective isn't because I'm rich and it was a drop in the bucket for me.

However, I did work this year - I am not in school. Had I been in school it would have been considerably tougher. But you know what - thats the main reasons I took a year off. If you can't afford it while in school, then take a year off. Yes, it sucks that the rich kids can afford to do it in school. But its not like the schools have no cost to review our applications. I think anything up to $100 is reasonable (so Georgetown is ridiculous). And if you can't afford that in school then take a year off. Claiming, I'm in school and can't work enough to pay for all these apps at the same time isn't a good reason to call it unfair. And thats the main reason I see people saying they can't afford it.

Is it expensive? Yes. Is it unfairly expensive? I don't think so. If you apply intelligently you save more money. So thats what you have to do.

I mean the system works. People who are below the 200% poverty line don't pay, and those that are rich have no problem. It really only leaves the middle income people, and if I could afford it with no help from my parents making not that much at my job (especially since I was constantly taking time off for interviews) - then other people can afford it too.

 

[IzzyMD09]

My family has been below the 200% poverty line my entire life (200% poverty line is the limit for just about every type of financial aid in existence). This year because I worked more than usual over the summer to pay for my MCAT prep course my family ended up being $500 over it. If you know about the fee assistance program, the 200% poverty line is the limit. So in other words - if I had made $500 less that year I wouldn't have had to pay for most of my primaries or any of my secondaries. That sucked. So no, my perspective isn't because I'm rich and it was a drop in the bucket for me.

However, I did work this year - I am not in school. Had I been in school it would have been considerably tougher. But you know what - thats the main reasons I took a year off. If you can't afford it while in school, then take a year off. Yes, it sucks that the rich kids can afford to do it in school. But its not like the schools have no cost to review our applications. I think anything up to $100 is reasonable (so Georgetown is ridiculous). And if you can't afford that in school then take a year off. Claiming, I'm in school and can't work enough to pay for all these apps at the same time isn't a good reason to call it unfair. And thats the main reason I see people saying they can't afford it.

Is it expensive? Yes. Is it unfairly expensive? I don't think so. If you apply intelligently you save more money. So thats what you have to do.

I mean the system works. People who are below the 200% poverty line don't pay, and those that are rich have no problem. It really only leaves the middle income people, and if I could afford it with no help from my parents making not that much at my job (especially since I was constantly taking time off for interviews) - then other people can afford it too.

Thanks again for the explanation, I wasn't assuming anything though, I merely wanted to gauge your perspective. I too was below poverty when I applied in 03, and I actually qualified for the fee waiver, unfortunately most schools dont accept that fee when it comes to secondaries, it works for the amcas application and the MCAT.

The issue isnt whether or not students make the right choices by paying secondaries, because the fact of the matter is students are going to do whatever it takes to get into medical school, and that fact is being taken advantage of by schools who send out secondary applications asking for fees without any previous screening. This is evident by the content of secondary applications. For instance they ask for essays that essentially want the same information provided in the personal essay of the AMCAS application, in addition to biographical information. Historically these fees were assessed so that if students updated their standings between the AMCAS and secondary they would be able to add to their application time sensitive material (i.e. publications going through, other projects) and the like. However, this is not the case, Medical School admissions committees are taking advantage by not screening primary applications. Essentially everyone who applies via AMCAS gets a secondary, and most students when polled believed that a secondary meant that they had already been screened as a potential candidate. However, when admissions committees were asked about the process by medical students in their school, they came to find that screening doesnt take place until after secondaries and fees are submitted. Meaning that 27 on your MCAT that maybe would have gotten you in but just didnt make the grade for Georgetown because their cut of was a 28 is not going to stop them from sequestering a fee from students.

On the issue of poverty, I personally have my own opinions, but what I have gathered are a few simple truths, the more places you apply the more likely you are to get interviewed and subsequently admitted. Thusly, with financial limitations going all the way down to MCAT prep students of lower middle income are discriminated against from the get go. Working jobs for 5.25 an hour for 3 years isnt going to cover medical school applications especially if students are independent or have no outside source of income. Medical School application is also not a guarantee for acceptance so several thousand students are potentially throwing away thousands of dollars simply to accumulate rejection letters.

I apologize if you misinterpreted my request, I hope some of this explains my purpose for introducing this resolution to AMSA, if we want to change health care and create doctors who arent so money oriented we have to start at the root of the problem, which in my opinion is the lack of doctors in america from lower socioeconomic bacgrounds.

thanks

izzzy

 

[stiffany]

How many schools you applied to: 21 on AMCAS, 19 completed
How many interviews have you gotten: 4 so far
Have you been accepted: 2 so far
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application: $780
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees: ~$1700
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): $2000 for MCAT prep and the $210 MCAT registration fee, so far $60 + $120 + $220 for airfare/trainfare (three different cities), $112 + $140 + $200 for lodging. I also shelled out another $150 to my school for my AMCAS transcript copy and LOR packets for 19 schools.

I have a spreadsheet listing all of the details of my application cycle including exact expenses. Including the suit and everything else, I've already surpassed $5000 on this application cycle. After my two interviews (included in the airfare and third lodging quote above) next month, I will most likely be done save maybe a local interview. While I'm a non-traditional student who works full-time (and therefore had a cushion which allowed me to spend over 2.5 months worth of post-tax wages on the application cycle), there's no way I would have been able to afford to apply as broadly as I did during college since I've been completely on my own since I was 18.

I think the cost of applying to med school is absolutely insane, especially for an establishment that prides itself on wanting to recruit the best and the brightest regardless of SES class. Not only do you need a certain amt of privilege to apply at all since doing so requires a college education, but you also need to have a decent amt of cash/or a credit limit set up that allows you to submit mucho applications. I also wonder why when some of my friends in med school applied (now fourth years for the most part), application fees were in the $50 range and now almost all of mine were $100. Certainly inflation is not THAT much of a driving factor. It's really just greed in my opinion since applicants have to pay the fees if they want to pursue their dreams. While I was fortunate to be able to pay it, it makes me sick to think how long I had to work just to be able to charge application fees to schools, most of which have completely ignored me this cycle after submitting secondary apps in late September (August MCATer). I still haven't heard from 11 schools and quite frankly if they don't get back to me, I'd like my money back (dare to dream I know).

 

[C-Dawg]

At the upcoming AMSA convention I will be presenting a resolution to launch an investigation into the secondary application fee requirements which accompany secondary applications

In order to present a solid case, I need your help and I need it fast, just write a brief sentence for each of the following questions

How many schools did you apply to 6 primaries, got 6 secondaries, filled out 4 secondaries
How many interviews have you gotten got 4, withdrew from one
Have you been accepted to yes, two schools out of three
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application $310
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees$300
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that) $2500 (including a $1700 princeton review class

also feel free to right a paragraph or so on how the application process was for you

The process was extremely expensive. I was paying for almost all the fees myself so I was only able to apply to four schools but I would have like to apply to many more. Of course, I can't qualify for any fee assistance help from AMCAS because my parents make too much money. In the end I got into the schools I wanted and came up with all the money.

thanks so much, I really appreciate

izzy

HOPE THIS HELPS!!

 

[RosaVerde]

How many schools did you apply to: 8 primaries, 4 secondaries
How many interviews have you gotten: 3
Have you been accepted: yes
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application: 370
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees: 270
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): 800


I'm definitely one of those that really couldn't afford applying to a lot of med schools. 8 was a lot for me. I'm fortunate that I have a solid app, was fairly confident, and got an acceptance. I can't imagine what someone who is in a worse economic situation, doesn't have a lot of positive role models around them, and isn't quite so sure about their application status would do. No wonder the majority of med students come from higher socioeconomic backgrounds, which I think is completely unfair and counters the notion of promoting good health for all. I feel that if the med student population was more representative of the general population, public health policies/medical practices would best serve everyone rather than mostly serve the rich and comfortable. Makes me quite angry how expensive the process is actually - and how it is so clearly in favor of those who come from relatively more wealth.

But, ok, off my soapbox and back to my situation. I somehow kept my costs low. I studied for the MCAT on my own. Bought used books on amazon and then sold everything in a set on ebay, so ended up maybe spending $100 on materials. Although, I did drastically cut down on work hours during the months of study to ensure I came out with a competitive score, so I didn't calculate the opportunity cost of missing out on the money I would have earned. I happen to have a job for which I travel, and by chance, my trips were scheduled perfectly around my interviews so that my work ended up paying for rental cars and transportation to the 2 schools I had to travel to. I only had to pay for one night's hotel in the end. There was no way I could afford flying all over the country and don't want to leave my state anyway, so didn't even consider out of state schools.

 

[wrong_answer]

How many schools did you apply to
16

How many interviews have you gotten
6

Have you been accepted
no

How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application
$610

How much money did you spend on secondary application fees
$1225

How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that)
Prep ~$1200
Travel = $600-2 plane trips, ~$200-3 car trips/parking/public transportation, $50-rental car, $50-1 night hotel... I stayed w/friends/strangers/family for most of my interviews and drove whenever the car trip was less than 5 hrs. to minimize costs

*low* estimated total = $3935

 

[bigdog8829]

19 md / 3 do schools applied to

4 interviews (3/3 osteopathic)

0 acceptances (have not heard from anyone yet)

AMCAS $700
AACOMAS $220

$1155 secondaries

MCAT prep + travel $1925

GRAND TOTAL $4,195.00

 

[bigdog8829]

plus $210 to register for the MCAT. damn.

aren't doctors already rich?

Note: I find it quite comical that we pay ~$100 to apply to a school via the secondary fee. But when we call to get a status update we are told to 'check online' or 'we only accept calls on thursday'. i would love to have the job to only work on thursdays and pocket that fat chunk of change (about 10K applicants x $100 a pop) Thats $100 grand. I honestly wonder where all this money goes.

 

[pjl2505]

19

9 interviews

2 acceptances

amcas-is it $30 a school? if so, then i spent $510

secondaries-roughly $1500

everything else-$2500

 

[Gunslinger]

How many schools did you apply to - 17
How many interviews have you gotten - 3
Have you been accepted - yes
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application - ~500
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees - ~1300
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that) ~ 3500

total: ~ 5500

SO glad parents helped me out!

 

[Doc Martins]

How many schools did you apply to 30; 27 secondaries completed
How many interviews have you gotten 8
Have you been accepted Yes
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application $1,030
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees $2,305
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that) I haven't really kept track, but I'll estimate ~$2,300

Total - ~$5,635

*I also applied to 3 D.O. schools, not included in figures above*

It's been a long 3 years (since I first took the MCAT and was planning on applying). It's painful to see how much I've spent, but in the end I would have to say it was worth it because it was all in preparation to achieve my goal in life.

 

[jules922]

How many schools did you apply to: 16
How many interviews have you gotten: 6
Have you been accepted: Yes
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application: $600 I think
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees: about $1500
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): $300 on plane and train tickets. Luckily I had friends or family to stay with everywhere I interviewed, and many of my interviews were local. I luckily got an MCAT prep class for free, since I taught for Kaplan for three years.
Total: $2400

I agree that charging for secondaries without screening is quite an unfair, greedy practice. This whole process is harder for people of a low SES ... I'm a nontraditional student and paid for everything myself - partially with student loans since I'm in grad school, and by working 35 hours a week while in school full time. Ugh.

 

[CTtarheel]

I applied to 14 schools, was invited to 11 interviews, went to 10 interviews. AMCAS cost was about $560, secondaries about $1200. Total cost for applications/travel was about $3500.

 

[Frankie.A]

thanks for doing this izzy!

How many schools did you apply to: 18 primaries, got 18 secondaries, filled out 14 secondaries
How many interviews have you gotten: 4 (hopefully will get 1 or 2 more)
Have you been accepted: waitlisted at 1, still waiting on 3
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application: about $650
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees: around $1200
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that) about 4300 including Kaplan class

also feel free to right a paragraph or so on how the application process was for you:
oh man! i hadn't let myself add it up before. i can't believe how much money i have spent. i really hope i get in this year. i am on my own for expenses so it has definitely been a huge cost, but i have a nice job and a supportive boss who is very supportive of this process. i am also lucky because i live/work in the city where 2 of my interviews were; one of my other interviews is where family lives which is a cheap flight and obviously free "hotel"; so i only had to pay for a hotel and expensive flight for one. i hope to get one or 2 more interviews, each bumping my total up $500 more. I think it is unfair that schools don't screen primary applications, especially since secondaries ask the same info. many of these schools charge about 100 bucks and have 7,000 plus applicants - that is 700,000 dollars they are making from this when they are accepting only 1-2% of those applicants!!! I don't think this would have changed much for me because from being on pre-interview hold at several "top" schools and talking to their admission staff, they told me my numbers are right on the cusp of what they interview so i probably still would have gotten secondaries, paid for them, and then gotten rejected still!! yuck, but at least i would have felt like it was money better spent....

 

[alwaysaangel]

The issue isnt whether or not students make the right choices by paying secondaries, because the fact of the matter is students are going to do whatever it takes to get into medical school, and that fact is being taken advantage of by schools who send out secondary applications asking for fees without any previous screening. This is evident by the content of secondary applications. For instance they ask for essays that essentially want the same information provided in the personal essay of the AMCAS application, in addition to biographical information. Historically these fees were assessed so that if students updated their standings between the AMCAS and secondary they would be able to add to their application time sensitive material (i.e. publications going through, other projects) and the like. However, this is not the case, Medical School admissions committees are taking advantage by not screening primary applications. Essentially everyone who applies via AMCAS gets a secondary, and most students when polled believed that a secondary meant that they had already been screened as a potential candidate. However, when admissions committees were asked about the process by medical students in their school, they came to find that screening doesnt take place until after secondaries and fees are submitted. Meaning that 27 on your MCAT that maybe would have gotten you in but just didnt make the grade for Georgetown because their cut of was a 28 is not going to stop them from sequestering a fee from students.

Ok, while in general I would agree with you about the primary screening - the MSAR tells you whether or not a school screens. So if a student believes getting a secondary from a non-screening school means they are already screened then that is their own fault for not doing their research. And when I applied several of my non-screening schools openly told you they didn't screen on the secondary and then listed their competitive numbers so that you knew whether or not it was realistic to submit a secondary (Georgetown is actually one of those).

So while yes, I agree with you in theory that AMCAS should require all schools to do the primary screen you can't make it sound like the schools don't tell the students. The info is definitely out there. Also, what about all the students who are borderline that are REALLY relying on not being screen pre-secondary so someone will just read their whole application and give them a chance. If you make it so every single medical school does a number screen prior to secondaries - sure you'll save a whole lot of people a lot of money. But you'll also find that a whole lot of people who otherwise would have had a chance are cut out before they ever have their ECs and essays read.

On the issue of poverty, I personally have my own opinions, but what I have gathered are a few simple truths, the more places you apply the more likely you are to get interviewed and subsequently admitted. Thusly, with financial limitations going all the way down to MCAT prep students of lower middle income are discriminated against from the get go. Working jobs for 5.25 an hour for 3 years isnt going to cover medical school applications especially if students are independent or have no outside source of income.

So take a year off and apply while you're working full-time and CAN afford it. Its really quite simple to be able to afford it if you wish. Like I already said - refusing to take a year off out of stubborn pride and then claiming you can't afford the cost while in school is silly. So show me a student who STILL couldn't afford to apply to 20 or so schools if they worked for a year during the application process. Otherwise your argument is moot.

I apologize if you misinterpreted my request, I hope some of this explains my purpose for introducing this resolution to AMSA, if we want to change health care and create doctors who arent so money oriented we have to start at the root of the problem, which in my opinion is the lack of doctors in america from lower socioeconomic bacgrounds.

I didn't misinterpret your request I was just trying to be very clear where I was coming from. And I just think that if you are going to bring this to AMSA as a serious argument you need to really rethink some of your points, because they are going to think of the same problems with your argument that I am...

 

[IzzyMD09]

As I mentioned, as a second year medical student, with colleagues at medical schools all over the US there have been insights into applications and admissions committees and the MSAR has been proven to be highly misleading. I am going to have criticize you on the condescending way you have chosen to express your opinion, if you read several of the previous posts you can see that many people who do apply and work still cannot afford the time or the money.

I suggest you put yourself in someone elses shoes, and realize the type of people that get into medical school with ease. Its an issue of granting advantages to those that can afford them while denying them to those who cant. It is a fundamental problem of our medical education system, which leads to fundamental problems with our health care as a nation.

Medical Schools should eliminate any discriminatory process that would keep a person out because he/she cant afford it, and that is what is happening.

I am sorry you disagree, but those are your opinions and you are entitled to them, however clearly you are the minority in this case.

Thank you for providing me with your information though.

izzy

 

[Steve203]

At the upcoming AMSA convention I will be presenting a resolution to launch an investigation into the secondary application fee requirements which accompany secondary applications

In order to present a solid case, I need your help and I need it fast, just write a brief sentence for each of the following questions

How many schools did you apply to
How many interviews have you gotten
Have you been accepted
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that)

also feel free to right a paragraph or so on how the application process was for you

thanks so much, I really appreciate

izzy

First off, I have to say this is a wonderful idea. I think med-school applications are the biggest rip off. I've literally had schools reject me the next day after I submitted my secondary (and yes, trolls, my scores were within range). I've applied three times....and I had to learn the hard way which schools not to bother applying to.

How many schools did you apply to? 40 on my first try, 43 on my second
and 29 on my last try

How many interviews? 2 on my first try, 6 on my second, and 4 so far in this cycle

Have you been accepted? Yes, mercifully

How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application? $1330 the first time, $1420 the second time, and $1000 even the last time.

How much money did you spend on secondaries? About $2800 the first time, 2500 the second time, and $1800 this last time

Total money spent - MCAT prep was $1600, plus another $200 bucks for the MCAT, probably another $4000 in travel expenses (all of my interviews were out of state the first two apps).

Total = $17,450

Mind boggling....no wonder my credit cards are maxed out. And no trolls, I don't have rich parents. Quite the contrary, my mom was a single mom, and I worked 40 hours per week during my whole collegiate career.

 

[jbrice1639]

How many schools did you apply to: 15
How many interviews have you gotten: 3
Have you been accepted: yes (2)
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application: about $400
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees: about $800
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): about $1500

I don't think the application costs were out of line (other than Georgetown). I think it was definitely worth the investment, and I think the costs do help control applications...i.e. keeping people (for the most part) from applying to 40, 50 or more schools. Less people end up on waitlists if more people only apply to schools they really want to go to...the high individual costs are just a part of the process.

 

[alwaysaangel]

As I mentioned, as a second year medical student, with colleagues at medical schools all over the US there have been insights into applications and admissions committees and the MSAR has been proven to be highly misleading. I am going to have criticize you on the condescending way you have chosen to express your opinion, if you read several of the previous posts you can see that many people who do apply and work still cannot afford the time or the money.

I suggest you put yourself in someone elses shoes, and realize the type of people that get into medical school with ease. Its an issue of granting advantages to those that can afford them while denying them to those who cant. It is a fundamental problem of our medical education system, which leads to fundamental problems with our health care as a nation.

Medical Schools should eliminate any discriminatory process that would keep a person out because he/she cant afford it, and that is what is happening.

I am sorry you disagree, but those are your opinions and you are entitled to them, however clearly you are the minority in this case.

Thank you for providing me with your information though.

izzy

Sorry if you thought I was condescending - I was trying to point out a lot of the points and rebuttals I think you will find if you try to actually present this and create change.

If you'd rather focus on those that agree with you thats your choice, but I doubt will get you far in changing anything.

Goodluck.

 

[IzzyMD09]

I appreciate your rebuttals but most of your points are moot, by using MRAS as a source of information despite several blatant cotradictions and the fact it hasnt been updated since 2004 shows that you have done little research in to the present crisis at hand. Its not about being able to argue points that have little relevance to the resolution at hand currently co-authored by 47 other delegates collaborating on the same project

I appreciate your vote of confidence, as do the rest of the medical school applicants who have to struggle afford college and MCAT and MCAT prep and AMCAS and Secondaries and Interivews.

The problem is that by having a process that costs so much money you discriminate not based on intelligence or aptitude, but by how much money a student has, and that is reprehensible for a country that chides itself on equality, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...for shame United States for shame, and to think that Americans are complaining of a shortage of doctors, 16,000 residents for 22,000 slots, and then you get into the whole creating a sink which takes physicans away from countries where they are needed more.

Think about that one

love
izzy

 

[IzzyMD09]

I really appreciate all the help
We will make a difference and stem the growing disparities in accessible medicine by making it accessible by those who are qualified to practice it my unfortunate enough to not have enough cash to prove that they can

izzy

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Total = $17,450

Mind boggling....no wonder my credit cards are maxed out. And no trolls, I don't have rich parents. Quite the contrary, my mom was a single mom, and I worked 40 hours per week during my whole collegiate career.

All I can say about this is WOW!

I hope I get in this cycle and only have to pay $4000-$5000 once.

 

[cureious]

How many schools did you apply to: 23
How many interviews have you gotten: 8 interviews
Have you been accepted: Yes
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application $1100
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees $1600
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): ~ $5,000

Total: $7,700

also feel free to right a paragraph or so on how the application process was for you:

The application process has been great thus far, but the costs are absolutely excruciating. I think it is quite ridiculous the price we have to pay just to apply. I will be at the AMSA annual conference as well. Best of luck in the presentation of this information and hopefully some change comes about in the near future.

 

[imamom]

I'm one of the moms who paid for that $5000+ expense of applying. And yes, with acceptances, it was "worth" it. But when I heard about the process, all I could think was what a "CASH COW" for the universities.

There should be ONE application fee--say $50 per submission...period! And one common application broad enough to please everyone--forget the secondaries. Writing more essays is not going to give anyone a better picture of an applicant and it's a torturous amount of time for an applicant to spend whether they're a full-time student or in a job. Enough is enough.

From that one application, the university can choose their interviewees and then the least they can do is provide housing with a student host if the interviewee needs overnight housing.

The secondary process is a huge moneymaker for the universities, so I doubt it will ever change much. Even more galling is after they take your money, they don't even have the courtesy of saying, "Sorry, we're not interviewing you." No, they just leave you hanging out there wondering if an interview might still be forthcoming--look at all the threads out there.

Insofar, as people "wanting" to afford it, let's just say you pick and choose where you want to spend your money. $5000 is a whole lot of money whether you're rich or poor and I think an awful lot of people are somewhere in the middle. Actually, it's a ridiculous amount of money! Thanks for attempting to do something whether others agree with you or not.

 

[tch001]

How many schools did you apply to: 29
How many interviews have you gotten: 16 (went on 12)
Have you been accepted: Yes, 6
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application $1900 (maybe?)
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees ~$2500
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): ~ $4000

Total: $8,400

also feel free to right a paragraph or so on how the application process was for you:

I got scared into applying to too many schools. I could have saved myself a lot of money and stress by only applying to 10-15 schools. Oh well, hindsight is always 20/20 and the only thing I knew for sure going into this was that I did not want to go through this grueling process every again.

 

[Summer Sweet]

I'm just going to say that all this is a little disheartening. I'm going to be applying this year, and I don't know what I'd do financially if I had to do it again (like the person who spent $17k...ouch!). I really do believe that the high cost of education keeps some people getting the best education possible. At my school, there are many older students who work full time to support themselves, and take 7-8 years for their degree because they can only go to night classes.

 

[Julius Erving]

How many schools did you apply to: 14
How many interviews have you gotten: 5
Have you been accepted: 2
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application: 550
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees: 955
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): 3,000 (I know this seems awful round, but it's within a dollar of the exact amount I've spent)

izzy

Only 1 far interview and applying to a relatively small list of schools helped me save money. I also did not take a MCAT prep course in order to save money for secondaries, and am convinced that if I had the extra dough, I could have raised my score ~2 points.

 

[SnowAngelCO]

How many schools did you apply to: 20
How many interviews have you gotten: 3
Have you been accepted: Yes
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application: ~750
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees: (I ended up only filling out 17 secondaries) ~1800
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): MCAT course, plus travel for 2 out of the three interviews, and app stuff.... comes out to approx $3750.

I'm sure it was probably a little more than $3750, but I would do it all again in a heartbeat. If I could have changed on thing, I would have only applied to 10-15 schools.

 

[KaraKiz]

How many schools did you apply to - 10
How many interviews have you gotten - 2
Have you been accepted - No
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application - $400 (I think)
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees - $600
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that) - $1,500

Even $2,500 was way more than I could afford. I am working a second job to pay it off. Busting my butt working 60 hours a week to pay for an unuccessful applications process.. really annoying..

 

[blantant]

How many schools did you apply to: 39 Schools
How many interviews have you gotten: 13 interviews, went to 10
Have you been accepted: Yes
How much money did you spend on the AMCAS application $1330
How much money did you spend on secondary application fees $3000
How much money have you spent total (MCAT prep, travel, lodging, and application stuff--not suits or new shoes or anything like that): $3200 (not including mcat prep)

Total: $7500



With a decent looking application I thought it was worth the investment to scatter a lot of seeds (they cost 30$ each) and see what happens. There are a lot of great schools around the country.

I'm not living in poverty but it seriously pains me to look at how much i spent. But I actually never think about it (though i'm forced to when i look at my credit card balances) because it's all sunk cost, it won't affect my decision, and it's also pretty minimal compared to the debt i'll be in after medschool.

In my opinion, the application process is much harder and more expensive for California applicants. Traveling is harder. State school decisions are slow. And if you were like me and getting invites without holding an acceptance anywhere, it's hard not to go. I hate this process. But it seems like it's finally working out for me.

Hope this helps OP. Thanks