Help my clueless friend out!

[gdk420]

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I have a friend who wants to become a doctor, yet is totally clueless. The other day, she said after I get my DO, should I then go get my MD degree. I was like 😱

Her reasoning is this:

1. She thinks there is more opportunity for movement up to directorship if she was an MD instead of a DO.
2. She also said that at the beginning, some DO had their license revoke and had to go back to school to get an MD degree. Not sure if this is true, was wondering if someone would fill me in on this bit of fact and the history of DO. So she is worried, it would happen again some day and that she would be force to go back to school.
3. She thinks the education in DO school is inferior because it treats the body instead of the disease. As a result, she thinks that when she comes out, she won't know as much.


How do i explain to her that this is all non sense.

 

[AshDO]

I have a friend who wants to become a doctor, yet is totally clueless. The other day, she said after I get my DO, should I then go get my MD degree. I was like 😱

Her reasoning is this:

1. She thinks there is more opportunity for movement up to directorship if she was an MD instead of a DO.
2. She also said that at the beginning, some DO had their license revoke and had to go back to school to get an MD degree. Not sure if this is true, was wondering if someone would fill me in on this bit of fact and the history of DO. So she is worried, it would happen again some day and that she would be force to go back to school.
3. She thinks the education in DO school is inferior because it treats the body instead of the disease. As a result, she thinks that when she comes out, she won't know as much.


How do i explain to her that this is all non sense.

Firstly, I would send her to the AACOM website and tell her to do a little research on the DO philosophy. If she does that, she will realize that while the osteopathic philosphy focuses on different methods of treatment, DO students also receive an identical education to that of MD students (so therefore, we learn MORE because of the classes and methods we learn dealing with our philosophy). I would also try to explain to her that becoming a DO is not supposed to be a stepping stone to become an MD or what she may consider a more educated physician. I have never heard about a DO losing his license and then being told to go back to get an MD degree..so I can't personally say whether or not that is true..but it doesn't sound too believable to me..maybe someone else knows. Last, as I said before, if she really wants to know about becoming a DO she needs to do some of her own research (or if you really want to show her yourself, you can, too) and go through some of our forums where we talk about the high positions that DO's hold in our country...even though I don't like to feel that I need to 'defend' being a DO.. I do think that people like your friend just need to be educated more about what the osteopathic philosophy really is and how much DO's have accomplished so that any misconceptions can be cleared up....immediately 😉

 

[Prozach]

I would like to see the response of the AOA and the various state osteopathic medical societies if they tried to revoke practice rights to DO's in any state(s). That being said, for a point by point refutation:

1. I don't think that this notion is garbage, in all scenarios. To say that there would not be any residual DO stigmas in consideration for any 'head honcho' positions is simply not true. As osteopathy becomes more mainstream (and despite the absolutely rather lacking 'efforts' by the AOA to familiarize the American public with osteopathy as a seperate approach to personal health and wellness, I do think that within the next 10 years, osteopathy will be fully assimilated into the mainstream). As a result, she may have well grounded fears about opporutnities available to her in terms of directorships and top positions in hospitals or academic institutions. However, consider that only <10% of the nation's physicians are DOs, and then look at some of the top healthcare providers in the country, and you will see that the DO bias is beginnnig to wane.

2. I have never heard of such a thing, but if it did happen, I strongly doubt it would happen again. I can't even imagine the outrage from some pretty powerful institutions. (Barbara Ross-Lee would have an anyurism!)

3. This is rubbish. The focus of medicine IS the body, not disease. Illness should not be the primary focus of physicians, but instead wellness. Wellness not only encompasses the state of being disease free, but it also includes healthy states of preventing illness, such as eating right and excercising. I have spoken at significan length with a DO neuropathologist from NYCOM. He did an allopathic residency at SUNY Upstate, and continues to emphasize to me how much he actually helped his fellow MD residents. In his words, "My osteopathic background only added some valuable tools to my medical toolbox." Clearly, if so many DO students can pass the USMLE, as he did, there is little to no difference in the quality of education. If she still doesn't believe you, print out two curricular charts, one from an allopathic school and one from an osteopathic school. Delete the OMT from the list so as not to give it away, and ask her to choose the allopathic from the two. $10 says she can't do it with significant confidence.

Hope that helps!!

 

[VentdependenT]

Or show her a DO match list. It will not rival that of big name allo schools, but it should get the point across.

 

[DireWolf]

Or show her a DO match list. It will not rival that of big name allo schools, but it should get the point across.

Shouldn't you be in Ibiza holding a bottle of Tequila in one hand and a piece of hooha in the other?

 

[gr8n]

2. She also said that at the beginning, some DO had their license revoke and had to go back to school to get an MD degree. Not sure if this is true, was wondering if someone would fill me in on this bit of fact and the history of DO. So she is worried, it would happen again some day and that she would be force to go back to school.
QUOTE]

Actually, I have heard (and kitkat can concur) that California (the state in which most bad attitudes towards DOs from MDs are said to exist in more abundance than any other state in the nation even today) was actually giving the MD degree to DOs if they paid a fee. JUST a fee, no more school. Obviously, the state of Cali. thought the education was just as thorough as any MD school, so they did this.

I haven't done my research on this though, but the source was VERY credible...AND... he was an MD!

 

[gr8n]

I don't why my quote didn't work

p.s.
I'm the KING of run-ons....

 

[Robz]

I don't why my quote didn't work

p.s.
I'm the KING of run-ons....

the quote didn't work cause there wasn't an open bracket [ in front of the second QUOTE

 

[DireWolf]

2. She also said that at the beginning, some DO had their license revoke and had to go back to school to get an MD degree. Not sure if this is true, was wondering if someone would fill me in on this bit of fact and the history of DO. So she is worried, it would happen again some day and that she would be force to go back to school.
QUOTE]

Actually, I have heard (and kitkat can concur) that California (the state in which most bad attitudes towards DOs from MDs are said to exist in more abundance than any other state in the nation even today) was actually giving the MD degree to DOs if they paid a fee. JUST a fee, no more school. Obviously, the state of Cali. thought the education was just as thorough as any MD school, so they did this.

I haven't done my research on this though, but the source was VERY credible...AND... he was an MD!

There is a sticky posted in the Osteopathic forum that discusses this issue.

 

[Prozach]

2. She also said that at the beginning, some DO had their license revoke and had to go back to school to get an MD degree. Not sure if this is true, was wondering if someone would fill me in on this bit of fact and the history of DO. So she is worried, it would happen again some day and that she would be force to go back to school.
QUOTE]

Actually, I have heard (and kitkat can concur) that California (the state in which most bad attitudes towards DOs from MDs are said to exist in more abundance than any other state in the nation even today) was actually giving the MD degree to DOs if they paid a fee. JUST a fee, no more school. Obviously, the state of Cali. thought the education was just as thorough as any MD school, so they did this.

I haven't done my research on this though, but the source was VERY credible...AND... he was an MD!

Yes I've heard the same thing. In fact, I saw significant mention of that somewhere on this forum. Anyway, I don't think that will be happening again anytime soon. I think the next step is going to be the merger of the COMLEX and USMLE. [Speculation] Then perhaps the merger of residencies, and then rotations, and then degrees. [/Speculation]

 

[DOin2007]

I'm just confused here. Why, if she doesn't agree with the philosophy, is she going for her D.O. degree in the first place? Why not just go for her M.D. right away if that's what she wants? Day in and day out, it is stressed that "the body is a unit"..."treat the body, not the disease"..."we don't cure the patient, we help facilitate the body in healing itself"...she'll be miserable if she doesn't believe in these things and has to hear them everyday.

 

[TTSD]

A 2x4 works wonders for ignorance.

 

[gr8n]

A 2x4 works wonders for ignorance.

That's good...I think I'll quote that sometime

 

[gdk420]

Thanks everyone for your post. My friend is actually applying to both DO and MD school. She just assumes that she has a better chance of getting into DO instead of an MD program because of her older age and 25 mcat score. Above all, she just wants to be a physician regardless of anything, However at times she is so clueless and kind of snobby.

 

[illuminati314]

The only institution that COULD retract a degree is the school that awarded it. State licensing boards could suspend your license, but not your degree. I searched pretty exhaustively, instead of studying for boards, and could find no mention of anything like that ever happening.

 

[Febrifuge]

Thanks everyone for your post. My friend is actually applying to both DO and MD school. She just assumes that she has a better chance of getting into DO instead of an MD program because of her older age and 25 mcat score. Above all, she just wants to be a physician regardless of anything, However at times she is so clueless and kind of snobby.

I realize I'm just talking out of my... elbow... here, but if people like this who "really want to be a doctor more than anything" actually had respect and passion for the practice of medicine, it seems to me they'd

a) become more self-aware,
b) become more well-informed about medicine as a course of study and a career, and/or
c) get out of the way and stop clogging the process.

...but please don't mind me; that's probably just premed stress talking. And god knows, I didn't know a DO from an opthamologist, a year and a haf ago. We all say some dumb stuff now and then. 😎

I'm guessing this is someone who has really not explored much about how this whole thing works. She should totally spend some time here -- do a search for the questions that have been asked a zillion times, start a thread for the new and interesting ones. She should have informational interviews with schools, with doctors, with students if possible. She should volunteer in some kind of a clinical setting.

Then, if she still feels DO is inferior to MD, and she can get through school and residency without alienating anyone who could help her, finding a way to claw to the top... heck yeah, she'd be an awesome Director!

 

[sistahnik]

does she even know what she is getting into? sounds like someone needs to do some research on the career they want to pursue. you need to introduce her to the SDN family so she can search the forums!!! 👍 😍

 

[Robz]

How do i explain to her that this is all non sense.

You can try but it seems she has already made up her mind. It will take time and experience (aka getting the real life treatment) to set her straight.

I second the suggestion to let her check out SDN and these forums.


Oh and if she wants to be a director of a health agency she might also want to look into MHA. MBA, or MPH as well.

 

[hakksar]

Tell her the truth. That after attaining a DO degree she will not be accepted into an MD school. Both DO and MD schools are trying to train Physicians. Once you have either a DO or an MD degree you will almost certainly not be accepted into a different degree physician training program because you are already trained as a physician (and therefore the training would be inefficient and pointless so that spot would be better given to someone without the degree). If she believes in the MD philosophy more than she should either go to an MD school or at least go to an allopathic residency. Ultimately, she will not be accepted if she doesn't changer her attitude (to an MD school or a DO school).

 

[VentdependenT]

Shouldn't you be in Ibiza holding a bottle of Tequila in one hand and a piece of hooha in the other?

Won't be there till June 7th. Tequila is just the start my friend. 😉

 

[PublicHealth]

And god knows, I didn't know a DO from an opthamologist, a year and a haf ago. We all say some dumb stuff now and then.

You probably mean optometrist (ODs). Ophthalmologists are DOs or MDs.

 

[Robz]

for some reason the last line of the quoted material above added with publichealth busting on it...and the fact the a word in the quote was mispelled ...just made me laugh outloud.....

its all good.

 

[Fenrezz]

Tell her that if she goes to chiropractic school, when she graduates she can trade up her degree to a D.O. for $128.29. Once she has her D.O. degree, she can trade that up to an M.D. for an addition $138.49.

I have my $138.49 saved up already.

 

[Robz]

Tell her that if she goes to chiropractic school, when she graduates she can trade up her degree to a D.O. for $128.29. Once she has her D.O. degree, she can trade that up to an M.D. for an addition $138.49.

I have my $138.49 saved up already.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!