Help! My mother saw the movie "Vaxxed"

[787593]

I had a long discussion with my mother and she seems convinced that there is a link between the MMR vaccine and autism.

What can I tell her to convince her otherwise? Saying that Wakefield's medical license got revoked didn't seem to work... :/

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[NotASerialKiller]

I'm sorry but nothing can be done at this point. You're going to have to put her down

 

[787593]

I'm sorry but nothing can be done at this point. You're going to have to put her down

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

So there is a ton of research that appealing to these people using facts and logic has the reverse effect--that is, they tend to dig in deeper and assume you're part of the conspiracy or brainwashed. The best way I've found to talk to them is to appeal to their emotions, since their argument is an emotional one.

Show her some videos of children with pertussis or measles or mumps. Let her see what those diseases actually look like, and then start introducing some history of vaccine studies. After that, you can start talking about how Wakefield is a fraud and that the only two studies showing any link between MMR and autism were fully retracted due to false data and undisclosed conflicts of interest.

I've had some success that way.

 

[787593]

So there is a ton of research that appealing to these people using facts and logic has the reverse effect--that is, they tend to dig in deeper and assume you're part of the conspiracy or brainwashed. The best way I've found to talk to them is to appeal to their emotions, since their argument is an emotional one.

Show her some videos of children with pertussis or measles or mumps. Let her see what those diseases actually look like, and then start introducing some history of vaccine studies. After that, you can start talking about how Wakefield is a fraud and that the only two studies showing any link between MMR and autism were fully retracted due to false data and undisclosed conflicts of interest.

I've had some success that way.

Thank you so much. That's extremely helpful and I'll definitely try the emotional approach!!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Thank you so much. That's extremely helpful and I'll definitely try the emotional approach!!

Just try not to get upset. They will sometimes purposely try to get you upset so that they can call you out on that and deflect from the actual issue. You gotta remain calm and be patient.

I actually just had a discussion with someone who thought the government is hiding the cure for cancer to make more money. That was a fun one.

 

[Goro]

Show her the retraction in Lancet, explain to her what a retraction means, and also the articles published in the BMJ as to how Wakefield faked his data.

If that doesn't work, nothing will.

I had a long discussion with my mother and she seems convinced that there is a link between the MMR vaccine and autism.

What can I tell her to convince her otherwise? Saying that Wakefield's medical license got revoked didn't seem to work... :/

 

[787593]

Just try not to get upset. They will sometimes purposely try to get you upset so that they can call you out on that and deflect from the actual issue. You gotta remain calm and be patient.

I actually just had a discussion with someone who thought the government is hiding the cure for cancer to make more money. That was a fun one.

I'll do my best.

Hiding the cure for cancer... that's a good one .

 

[787593]

Show her the retraction in Lancet, explain to her what a retraction means, and also the articles published in the BMJ as to how Wakefield faked his data.

If that doesn't work, nothing will.

Thank you!!

 

[idontwatchgreysanatomy]

http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2014/03/75-studies-that-show-no-link-between.html?m=1

I saw this posted the other day. Not that I expect anyone's Mom to read and understand scientific literature, but still good to have these on hand

 

[Mad Jack]

Sorry dude, she's wired for stupid. Once they let the anti-science in, there's no turning back.

Just buy her a defluoridation system and make peace, then never speak of this again.

 

[bananafish94]

My mom started drinking the anti-vaccine Kool-Aid a year or so ago. It's quite strange because I never pegged her for the sort of person that would fall for something like that. For a time, she believed something called "Miracle Mineral Solution" (which is bleach) was a cure for autism. There are all sorts of forums and such devoted to this stuff, but once you go that deep into that side of the Internet it changes a man.

 

[The Buff OP]

At least it wasn't VaXXXed.

 

[Mad Jack]

At least it wasn't VaXXXed.

My favorite porn parody, certainly.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2014/03/75-studies-that-show-no-link-between.html?m=1

I saw this posted the other day. Not that I expect anyone's Mom to read and understand scientific literature, but still good to have these on hand

Just posted that on Facebook.

 

[787593]

Sorry dude, she's wired for stupid. Once they let the anti-science in, there's no turning back.

Just buy her a defluoridation system and make peace, then never speak of this again.

But she's my mother

 

[787593]

My mom started drinking the anti-vaccine Kool-Aid a year or so ago. It's quite strange because I never pegged her for the sort of person that would fall for something like that. For a time, she believed something called "Miracle Mineral Solution" (which is bleach) was a cure for autism. There are all sorts of forums and such devoted to this stuff, but once you go that deep into that side of the Internet it changes a man.

Just like how they faked the moon landing

 

[787593]

At least it wasn't VaXXXed.

VaXXXed is a classic.

 

[bananafish94]

Just like how they faked the moon landing

Everyone knows the moon landing is a hoax propagated by Obama and Shillary

 

[Mad Jack]

But she's my mother

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...xxers-fear-scare-them/?utm_term=.23e10caa5bbb

 

[Mad Jack]

Everyone knows the moon landing is a hoax propagated by Obama and Shillary

In combination with Hitler, yes.

 

[Go_Pokes_11]

My condolences you even have to try to convince her.

 

[Conflagration]

When people find out I'm on the autism spectrum, they say inane things like "if only more people knew the dangers of vaccines/GMOs/chemtrails/something vaguely scientific not properly explained by media (or the explaination falls on deaf ears), then people wouldn't have to suffer like you are" or something equally patronizing.

Honestly, I just turn it on its head. If you're more concerned about your child having autism than dying in agony from measles or some other preventable disease, then that says a hell of a lot more about you than it does about anything else.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

When people find out I'm on the autism spectrum, they say inane things like "if only more people knew the dangers of vaccines/GMOs/chemtrails/something vaguely scientific not properly explained by media (or the explaination falls on deaf ears), then people wouldn't have to suffer like you are" or something equally patronizing.

Honestly, I just turn it on its head. If you're more concerned about your child having autism than dying in agony from measles or some other preventable disease, then that says a hell of a lot more about you than it does about anything else.

Autism is not worse than deadly diseases. The anti vaccine people are disgusting for promoting that line of thinking, and it just shows that they are using those on the spectrum as pawns for their own political gain.

 

[wizzed101]

http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2014/03/75-studies-that-show-no-link-between.html?m=1

I saw this posted the other day. Not that I expect anyone's Mom to read and understand scientific literature, but still good to have these on hand

While I agree that the original work was bogus, one cannot prove a negative. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be prepared to be vexed if you show someone like me those "evidences." Being a contrarian is fun ^_^

 

[humble_nous]

Personally I love the statistic, "Smallpox claimed more lives than all the wars in the 20th century combined before it was eradicated by vaccination."

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I'm sorry but nothing can be done at this point. You're going to have to put her down

You sound like you may have some experience in this area...

 

[787593]

In combination with Hitler, yes.

I thought Hitler was relocated to the moon base?

 

[787593]

My condolences you even have to try to convince her.

Thanks man :/

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

While I agree that the original work was bogus, one cannot prove a negative. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be prepared to be vexed if you show someone like me those "evidences." Being a contrarian is fun ^_^

So you enjoy being an ignorant dingus. Roger that. On ignore you go.

 

[Mad Jack]

While I agree that the original work was bogus, one cannot prove a negative. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be prepared to be vexed if you show someone like me those "evidences." Being a contrarian is fun ^_^

That... That isn't how science works little guy

 

[787593]

When people find out I'm on the autism spectrum, they say inane things like "if only more people knew the dangers of vaccines/GMOs/chemtrails/something vaguely scientific not properly explained by media (or the explaination falls on deaf ears), then people wouldn't have to suffer like you are" or something equally patronizing.

Honestly, I just turn it on its head. If you're more concerned about your child having autism than dying in agony from measles or some other preventable disease, then that says a hell of a lot more about you than it does about anything else.

Chemtrails
I literally thought it was satire when I first heard this one.

 

[787593]

Autism is not worse than deadly diseases. The anti vaccine people are disgusting for promoting that line of thinking, and it just shows that they are using those on the spectrum as pawns for their own political gain.

Gym gains are better than political gains anyway... and I agree.

 

[Futuredoctor1234]

While I agree that the original work was bogus, one cannot prove a negative. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be prepared to be vexed if you show someone like me those "evidences." Being a contrarian is fun ^_^

Yes, you cannot prove a negative because things aren't automatically assumed to be causally-linked until proven otherwise?? By that logic, literally every single thing in the world directly causes autism unless we can prove that it doesn't (which is an absurd stance).

 

[JoaoMoutinho]

I actually just had a discussion with someone who thought the government is hiding the cure for cancer to make more money. That was a fun one.

I've actually heard that one from about a dozen people. They all believed that it was "big pharma" instead of the government, but the idea is pretty much the same...

 

[787593]

Yes, you cannot prove a negative because things aren't automatically assumed to be causally-linked until proven otherwise?? By that logic, literally every single thing in the world directly causes autism unless we can prove that it doesn't (which is an absurd stance).

chocolate milk causes autism.

 

[idontwatchgreysanatomy]

While I agree that the original work was bogus, one cannot prove a negative. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be prepared to be vexed if you show someone like me those "evidences." Being a contrarian is fun ^_^

You can reject a null hypothesis. You're probably thinking of affirming the consequent. You also sound like a total neckbeard.

 

[787593]

I've actually heard that one from about a dozen people. They all believed that it was "big pharma" instead of the government, but the idea is pretty much the same...

I know a guy who believes that "big pharma" is anti-weed and they are because weed cures *insert ailment here*
He also believes that doctors only prescribe drugs that will cause side effects that result in people needing more drugs...

 

[Conflagration]

While I agree that the original work was bogus, one cannot prove a negative. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be prepared to be vexed if you show someone like me those "evidences." Being a contrarian is fun ^_^

I'm glad that you find widespread ignorance about legitimate health crises edifying for your ego.

 

[JoaoMoutinho]

I know a guy who believes that "big pharma" is anti-weed and they are because weed cures *insert ailment here*
He also believes that doctors only prescribe drugs that will cause side effects that result in people needing more drugs...

Definitely heard a lot of that one too.

 

[Incis0r]

I'm sorry but nothing can be done at this point. You're going to have to put her down

No.

 

[studentdocftw]

On a related note....
https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/07/anti-vaccine-claims-cleveland-clinic/

Here's a link to the actual blog: http://www.cleveland.com/lyndhurst-...f/2017/01/make_2017_the_year_to_avoid_to.html

Thoughts?
Impact on Cleveland Clinic's reputation?

Nobody ever said every physician is competent or moral, but how this guy became COO of a medical center is beyond me.

 

[idontwatchgreysanatomy]

On a related note....
https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/07/anti-vaccine-claims-cleveland-clinic/

Thoughts?

Saw this on reddit and I've been following it since the original article was posted. CC gave an official response and it sounds like he's getting fired. What's funny is he is one of the directors of clinical education at Lerner.

 

[studentdocftw]

Saw this on reddit and I've been following it since the original article was posted. CC gave an official response and it sounds like he's getting fired. What's funny is he is one of the directors of clinical education at Lerner.

To say I'm disappointed is a gross understatement. It's one thing for random bloggers and naturopaths to publish such misinformation, but coming from someone in healthcare, who happens to be a licensed physician, at a renowned academic center, in a position of power and learning...

"Have your children been vaccinated?"
"Well, the guy from Cleveland Clinic said..."

 

[LivMoore]

Since the Cleveland Clinic thing came out KevinMD posted about it on Facebook and there was an RN arguing against vaccines in the Facebook comments. *sigh*

What I don't understand is why these people would rather their child be at risk for getting diseases like measles, instead of getting them vaccinated and maybe getting autism

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Saw this on reddit and I've been following it since the original article was posted. CC gave an official response and it sounds like he's getting fired. What's funny is he is one of the directors of clinical education at Lerner.

I've been following it on Facebook on ZDoggMD's page. It seems like the asshat is not going to be fired. His blog was shut down, and he issued a half-assed apology. That seems to be it.

 

[----x----]

https://medium.com/the-nib/vaccines-work-here-are-the-facts-5de3d0f9ffd0#.yjjui6p2g

This comic has helped some people learn about how vaccines work, but I'm not sure how it would work against someone who is already dug in opposed to them.

 

[idontwatchgreysanatomy]

I've been following it on Facebook on ZDoggMD's page. It seems like the asshat is not going to be fired. His blog was shut down, and he issued a half-assed apology. That seems to be it.

From the Cleveland Clinic's statement:
"His views do not reflect the position of Cleveland Clinic and appropriate disciplinary action will be taken.”

 

[787593]

https://medium.com/the-nib/vaccines-work-here-are-the-facts-5de3d0f9ffd0#.yjjui6p2g

This comic has helped some people learn about how vaccines work, but I'm not sure how it would work against someone who is already dug in opposed to them.

That was fantastic!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

From the Cleveland Clinic's statement:
"His views do not reflect the position of Cleveland Clinic and appropriate disciplinary action will be taken.”

Yes. Likely a slap on the wrist and instructions not to blog anymore. Be real. The COO isn't getting fired for this.