Here are some real income numbers

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kypredent

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I just wanted to let you other predents know about the possible lifestyle that is available to a dentist. It is this success story that first attracted me to the profession and away from studying medicine. Mind you, I care nothing for being wealthy. I simply want to be in a profession where 1. I am the boss. 2. I enjoy what I do. 3. I can work as little as possible...not out of laziness, but so that I can spend my time on the important things in life which is being with my family and watching my 2 boys grow up. 4. As I said, I don't care if I am rich, but I want a life where money is never an issue.........where I can provide for my family and afford the things I want.

To me, the other things such as a rewarding career and helping others is simply a plus to the above listed things.

Anyway, moving on to my story.....I am tired of reading a lot of posts where people request salary info and keep getting the run around........so here are some hard numbers for those of you who desire. I have a friend who has been practicing for 8 years. His first year out of school he settled for a position as an associate for $50,000 a year. The next year, he moved to a town in where he became an associate to an already established practice.
He is only a GP, but keep in mind that he is just an associate.

Today, 8 years out of school.........my friend works Wednesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays. He works from 8:30 to noon.....then 1 hour for lunch.......then on again until 5:00. That's 7 1/2 hours a day for a grand total of 22 1/2 hours a week. Even though he is just a GP, he refers practically no case away to a specialist. I have observed with him where he does any procedure he feels comfortable doing. He reguraly does braces, root canals, dentures, wisdom teeth extraction...........basically anything. He makes 27.3% of total collections (their practice has a collection rate of 98%+) He sees an average of 65-75 patients per day...........that is not a typo!!

Here is how.....it is a 7 chair practice. On the day he works, he is the only dentist there....(owner only works Monday and Tuesday),,,,,,,every chair is full. He comes by and sees the patient.....tells them what they need done........then he leaves to see next patient while the dental assistant talks to the first patient about costs and sees what they want done.......then he returns and does the procedure. Since it is allowable by state law.......if he has to drill.......the assistant can do the filling....this allows him to see more people. Keep in mind that he does quality work... is honest (never advises to have any unneeded procedure......and has the best chair side manner of anyone....In short, the patients are thrilled with the experience.

Bottom line............3 days a week........22 1/2 hours of work........$200,000 a year. No hassles about employees or payroll. Just come to work, perform well, make your patients happy, and go home to your family.

There is nothing miraculous about our town. It is not an overly weathly community. County population of about 40,000. About 20-25 other dentists in town. He simply works hard, fast, effecient, and does excellent work.

Just knowing that this kind of life should make you smile.
 
Impressive! Hope this applies worldwide though.... 😉
 
He spends an average of 6-7 min on each pt (including braces, root canals, dentures, wisdom teeth extraction), his assistant restores all his restorations, and he does quality work? I'm sorry, I must have missed something... no comment.
 
60 patients a day?.....that is just wrong...there is no way on god's earth that someone can provide quality work seeing that many patients...and mind you this guy refers nothing out?...are you telling me he's doing a crown in 5 minutes..a root canal? please!....some respect for our intelligence!
 
And the quality of patient care with excessive patients, I would think would decline, but I could be wrong, its just the reality of dentistry now a days. Trully a oustanding story of what it is to be a dentist. I can't wait till I start dental school!

Hd
 
DDSSlave said:
He spends an average of 6-7 min on each pt (including braces, root canals, dentures, wisdom teeth extraction), his assistant restores all his restorations, and he does quality work? I'm sorry, I must have missed something... no comment. (you do realize that 65-75 pt/day is extremely high for ortho?)
Hey DDSSlave,

How do you like UTH school of dentistry? Would you recommend it over San Antonio or Baylor?
 
Interesting. This is tough to swallow, but if it's true we're golden.

It's not that I don't believe you, it's just "quality" is so subjective. Look at some of the work that's done in some patients, and you'd swear the doc was a hack. However, his chairside manner is enough to paint a favorable color in their eyes.

Either way, 200K a year as an associate is pretty sweet (even if 8 years out). No overhead to worry about, 3 days a week work, stress free, and all the time to do as pleased. Lucky guy if the picture is as is.
 
If you believe this....I have some oceanfront property to sell you in Arizona.

Let's break this down with him seeing 65 patients a day. Say 20 of those are 5 minute hygiene checks so that is 1:40 total. He works 7.5 hours a day. so to see the other 45 patients he has about 5 hours 50 minutes. And on top of that he does quality work or his assistants do and never refers out. Obviously he is whoring himself out to a HMO clinic which means the work isn't good...I've seen the results of those situations. He could easily make 200k given the info, but if thats the situation you want then you really don't care about dentistry or your patients.

The real info here is associates 1st year make 30k to 150k with the average of 75k. The reason some make pennies is b/c most dentists and dental companies are liars and money grubbers especially those who have tons of associates. In my first "job" I got taken advantage of and lied to and made next to nothing. I stayed there way too long and learned this lesson. Now I make in the 100's working 4 days a week with enough time to take a nap at work.

You will never make "real money" until have your own practice. Dentist's compensation varies b/c every practice is different. An average practice that does 500k with 65% overhead will make you 175k with tons of tax deductions (thats the big benefit of your own practice).
 
a dental mill/welfare clinic making full use of expanded function dental assistants.

i'm not sure about the number of patients seen...especially if u're practicing comprehensive dentistry.

EFDA can place amalgam and resin for u...
i'm a big believer in deligating..
..but i dont think any state lets your assistant obturate canals or cut out wizzies.

anyways,
..i know a bro doing similar numbers now...2 years out of dent school...
(making 30% collections...but also working 30 hrs +)
dental mills are great when u r coming out of dental school to get your speed up..
...and when u DO get that speed up...u will do very well.
...but this is not something u can do for very long, imo.

very draining physically and mentally.
 
I don't think I or anyone would be thrilled with some assistant putting in my filling. I want the doctor doing the whole procedure and not leaving in the middle. Sorry but this whole thing really is a hard swallow.
 
Gutta Percha said:
If you believe this....I have some oceanfront property to sell you in Arizona.


I have been looking for some good oceanfront property for some time now. Where is it located and I may take it off your hands. Is it a private beach or public?
 
If that guy is seeing 65-75 patients a day, then I feel bad that he is only bringing home $200,000. That number ought to 3x greater given the amount of patient flow through that office.
 
speter33 said:
I don't think I or anyone would be thrilled with some assistant putting in my filling. I want the doctor doing the whole procedure and not leaving in the middle. Sorry but this whole thing really is a hard swallow.

if it helps...
...the assistant does nothing "irreversible"



fyi,
we have an efda clinic at osu.
i schedule almost all of my 1-3 surface restorative there...
the assistant sets everything up...
....it usually takes takes less than 30 min to get the med Hx checked with instructor, get patient numb...and then cut a mod...
(amazing how much faster u work when u have an assistant)
then u could go see your removable patient that u double booked....or go play on the computer or do labwork...or whatever.

the doc (or dental student) checks the work...and sends the patient home.


i dont believe in running myself to death trying to see an obscene amount of patients...
...but i have every intention of being efficient and making proper use of my future dental auxiliaries.
 
Anyone who doesn't understand that seeing 65+ pt a day = cutting lots of corners, needs more exposure to dentistry. It's not about efficiency. If you're efficient and own your own practice a $200k income is a realistic goal. 65+ pt is such an incredibly high number, that either there is some misunderstanding/miscommunication or something unethical is going on. For all the predents here, dentistry is a great field. If you're interested in money, you can make a lot of it by being efficient and doing good work. The future is bright. But seeing 65+ pt/day is not the way to do it.

Although the dental assistant restoring teeth is not the main issue here, I will say that there is a reason it is against the law in some states. If I were a pt, I would not allow an assistant to restore my tooth. Not irreversible? I can only imagine the overhang that would haunt me yrs later and necessitate grafting surgery to correct the resulting vertical defect.
 
BigJ77, I sent you a private message.
 
I don't think this thread is being received in the way the OP had intended.

I hope I never see 65-75 patients a day.

Certainly, every presidency has shown that you can spin any negative into a positive...or at least try to.
 
i was working for my roommate's dad from january-june, hes a famous orthodontist. at one time, he had the largest solo private practice in the nation (medical or dental).

on average he had 80-100 patients scheduled on a work day when i was there, and that was his practice toned down, after 30 years in the biz he schedules less patients. the # of patients had to be at least twice that amount in the practices prime. *edit* the average # of patients was 160 a day....crazy.

it was really an amazing experience working there. he lectures around the world on ortho practice management, mechanics, tmj, and marketing, and seems like he utilized his skill into running one hell of an office.

late
rick
 
You can't compare ortho and gp patients/day load. My dad and grandfather are/were also orthodontists with solo practices. Seeing 100+ patients is not uncommon for ortho especially in the summer...

A gp seeing 65/day patients is quite superhuman.
 
I'm SOOO Confused. one of the staff in the dental school keeps pushing for us to do some rural health program thing to repay our loans (North Carolina) and said the salary is about 90K. The guy i just worked with said that 70k is about as high as the state will pay. What is the TRUTH????

Who here has Graduated from UNC and actually got offered positions???? What do they offer? How real is the rural health repayment thing???? How much should I expect the day I walk out of the Dental School?
 
guest said:
I'm SOOO Confused. one of the staff in the dental school keeps pushing for us to do some rural health program thing to repay our loans (North Carolina) and said the salary is about 90K. The guy i just worked with said that 70k is about as high as the state will pay. What is the TRUTH????

One of our faculty has spoken extensively with programs throughout the south east, including North Carolina, and has reported programs that start at 100k and have 25k of loan repayment on top of that.

I'd say the 90k positions are true, although I don't have direct evidence of that.
 
guest said:
I'm SOOO Confused. one of the staff in the dental school keeps pushing for us to do some rural health program thing to repay our loans (North Carolina) and said the salary is about 90K. The guy i just worked with said that 70k is about as high as the state will pay. What is the TRUTH????

Who here has Graduated from UNC and actually got offered positions???? What do they offer? How real is the rural health repayment thing???? How much should I expect the day I walk out of the Dental School?




Talk with Mr. Luten if you are at UNC.

grtuck
 
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