Dismiss Notice
Last chance to give your feedback! Fill out the 2019 SDN Member Survey to let us know what's important to you (and win prizes!)

Here comes Socialized Medicine - Bush signed SPP w/Mexico & Canada

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Lucky Charm, Feb 21, 2007.

  1. Lucky Charm

    Lucky Charm Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello,
    I recently read shocking new that may devastate our current US health care system:

    On March 25, 2005 Bush quietly signed a Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP) with the leaders of Mexico and Canada. Congress has not voted on this agreement which is planned to go into effect in 2010! It will effect the pocketbook of every American citizen. It is an economic and trade agreement that freely opens the US borders with Mexico and Canada and forms a "North American Union" similar to the European Union. In an effort to expedite the "free flow of PEOPLE and trade" between the three countries, our government is planning to build a NAFTA Superhighway the extends from sea ports in Mexico (that are owned by China) to Canada. This foreign company owned highway will be 1200 ft wide and will allow Mexican Truck drivers to freely drive into the US. They will not be stopped until they reach the Mexican customs port being built in Kansas City, MO. The first leg of this superhighway, the Trans-Texas Corridor, is scheduled to start building in 2007.

    Many “SPP working groups” led under our very own Secretary of State and Secretary of Commerce are “re-writing” our current US legislature in various areas (including health care) so that it can be merged with that of Mexico and Canada. The SPP "will seek to enhance public health cross-border coordination in infectious diseases surveillance, prevention and control. Improve the health of our indigenous people through targeted bilateral and/or trilateral activities, including in health promotion, health education, disease prevention, and research".

    Sound too unbelievable to be true. See below links:

    CNN Video Clips:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBmFrYWPoG8&mode=related&search=
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ensmPJm5B5A

    Official Government Links to SPP:
    http://www.spp.gov/prosperity_working/index.asp?dName=prosperity_working
    http://www.spp.gov/factsheet.asp?dName=fact_sheets

    More Links -> http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/NAU/
    http://www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/nafta_superhighway_coming_through.htm

    NAFTA Super Highway Map: http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_4218.shtml

    Trans Texas Corridor: http://www.fwweekly.com/content.asp?article=4526

    The US currently has 45 million people without health insurance. Of those about 20 million are suspected to be illegal residents. If this SPP actually occurs in 2010, there will be an enormous inflow of indigenous people. Won't this spell disaster to our entire nation's health care delivery? The California health care crisis is a perfect example. Hilary Clinton and other elitists have discussed socialized health care reform as being the solution, idolizing the socialized health care system in Canada. It seems like socialized health care for the entire “North American Union” would be the logical next step…..

    However, I've read that most socialized systems provide free health care ONLY to LEGAL citizens.

    How can any US health care system effectively support this SPP? Anyone have any thoughts?
     
  2. mibbycnd01

    mibbycnd01 Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    WOW!!! It's ridiculous that the mass media has failed to regularly cover this.....
     
  3. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California
    Moderator Verified Expert 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,682
    Likes Received:
    1,836
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    How do you have an inflow of indigenous people?
     
  4. OncoCaP

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,016
    Likes Received:
    1
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Medical Student
    http://www.spp.gov/myths_vs_facts.asp


    ***********
    The SPP is meant to:

    Coordinate our security efforts to better protect U.S. citizens from terrorist threats and transnational crime and promote the safe and efficient movement of legitimate people and goods;

    Expand economic opportunity for all our people by making our businesses more competitive in the global marketplace, cutting red tape, and providing consumers with safe, less expensive, and innovative products; and

    Enhance our common efforts to combat infectious diseases, develop responses to man-made or natural disasters to enhance our citizens’ quality of life, protect our people and our environment, and improve consumer safety.

    ***********

    Myth: The SPP was an agreement signed by Presidents Bush and his Mexican and Canadian counterparts in Waco, TX, on March 23, 2005.

    Fact: The SPP is a dialogue to increase security and enhance prosperity among the three countries. The SPP is not an agreement nor is it a treaty. In fact, no agreement was ever signed.
    ***********
    Myth: The SPP is a movement to merge the United States, Mexico, and Canada into a North American Union and establish a common currency.

    Fact: The cooperative efforts under the SPP, which can be found in detail at www.spp.gov, seek to make the United States, Canada and Mexico open to legitimate trade and closed to terrorism and crime. It does not change our courts or legislative processes and respects the sovereignty of the United States, Mexico, and Canada. The SPP in no way, shape or form considers the creation of a European Union-like structure or a common currency. The SPP does not attempt to modify our sovereignty or currency or change the American system of government designed by our Founding Fathers.


    ***********
    Myth: The U.S. Government, working though the SPP, has a secret plan to build a "NAFTA Super Highway."

    Fact: The U.S. government is not planning a NAFTA Super Highway. The U.S. government does not have the authority to designate any highway as a NAFTA Super Highway, nor has it sought such authority, nor is it planning to seek such authority. There are private and state level interests planning highway projects which they themselves describe as "NAFTA Corridors," but these are not Federally-driven initiatives, and they are not a part of the SPP.
    **********
    Myth: The SPP will cost U.S. taxpayers money.

    Fact: The SPP is being implemented with existing budget resources. Over the long-term, it will save U.S. taxpayers money by cutting through costly red tape and reducing redundant paperwork. This initiative will benefit the taxpayers through economic gain and increased security, thereby enhancing the competitiveness and quality of life in our countries.

    **********
    Myth: The SPP is meant to deal with immigration reform and trade disputes.

    Fact: Immigration reform is a legislative matter currently being debated in Congress and is not being dealt with in the SPP. Likewise, trade disputes between the United States, Canada, and Mexico are resolved in the NAFTA and WTO mechanisms and not the SPP.

    **********
    Myth: The SPP will harm our quality of life.

    Fact: The SPP improves the safety and well-being of Americans. It builds on efforts to protect our environment, improves our ability to combat infectious diseases, such as avian influenza, and ensures our food supply is safe through the exchange of information and cooperation ─ improving the quality of life for U.S. citizens. Americans enjoy world class living standards because we are engaged with the world.

    **********
     
  5. QuantumMechanic

    QuantumMechanic Avatar=One of the Greats
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    2,455
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Dermatology
     
  6. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California
    Moderator Verified Expert 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,682
    Likes Received:
    1,836
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    That's because it is. Read the Myth section of the SPP site and you'll see that much of your concerns above are rumor. Nothing was signed in March, 2005, for example.

    The actual text of the agreement doesn't look all that alarming. I have a distrust for it because it comes out of the Bush administration and I consistently have been burned by him. But I don't smell the fire and brimstone that you seem to.
     
  7. astrife

    astrife Senior Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    427
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    I will never understand why people get so worked up over things they do not even really understand.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Lucky Charm

    Lucky Charm Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    With all respect, Notdeadyet, I would encourage you to read through those above links I've listed. It's obvious you have not read about this topic. It's that kind of assumption and lack of knowledge that is enabling the executive branch of government to overrule our US constitution via "trade laws" and bypass Congress. You are wrong....it is VERY well documented that there was a meeting between Bush, Fox, and Martin in Waco, Texas on March 25th, 2005 where the SPP was signed.

    I would not trust the info listed under the SPP government website. From what I've read, the government has refused to release much of the SPP documents. In fact several coalitions had to go through a judicial fight just to receive copies of *some* of the SPP documents.

    As for its denial about the NAFTA Highway, its true the Federal Government is not directly funding it. **However** it is fully cooperating with several international investors who will build and own those highways. Do you think Bush's "free flow of people and trade" and timeliness of this NAFTA Highway are a coincidence? What's happening is our government officials are accepting money from these investors. Example: Texas Governor Perry. Read the link under Trans-Texas Corridor. Many Texans are in uproar about this corridor because its plowing through many communities and farms.

    The NAFTA Highway is VERY real -->http://www.nascocorridor.com/

    Again - here is a link to many articles on the subject:
    http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/NAU/
     
  9. astrife

    astrife Senior Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    427
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    Even if this is happening like you say, facilitating free trade is good for everyone in the long run.
     
  10. QuantumMechanic

    QuantumMechanic Avatar=One of the Greats
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    2,455
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Medical Student
    your definitely right, basic economics says that isolationism, restricted trade, and closed borders are great for the American economy. American ingenuity can overcome anything! They invent the taco, we invent taco bell. They invent maple syrup, we produced Aunt Jemima. They invent terrorists, we invent Americanization through pop culture and big business!
     
  11. Dianyla

    Dianyla in denial
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,404
    Likes Received:
    11
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    :laugh:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California
    Moderator Verified Expert 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,682
    Likes Received:
    1,836
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Source? Nothing personal, but your links are all to the government SPP site (though you just said "I would not trust the info listed under the SPP government website") and wackjob right wing sites that would make most conservatives blush. And a couple nonsequitars like the Fort Worth Weekly, that never mentions the Security and Prosperity Partnership at all.

    Find a reputable new source that talks about the signed treaty and I'll give it a read. Otherwise, this is all conspiracy theorist ranting.
     
  13. sheepunite

    sheepunite Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    384
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Medical Student
    The SPP "will seek to enhance public health cross-border coordination in infectious diseases surveillance, prevention and control. Improve the health of our indigenous people through targeted bilateral and/or trilateral activities, including in health promotion, health education, disease prevention, and research".

    sounds HEINOUS!
    HEINOUS!

    :laugh:
    silly xenophobe.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Lucky Charm

    Lucky Charm Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    In regards to our health care system, it is not the free trade that concerns me...its the "free flow of people" between borders. Not that we don't have that already.....but this agreement actually calls for it and legalizes it. Along with the increased migration of cheap labor will come an increased burden on our hospital systems. California is in a total health care crisis. Many CA hospitals have had to shut down do so many uninsured, illegal residents using their ED's as primary care. There also has been a return of many diseases that were once eliminated in the US: TB, Leprosy, Malaria, Denge Fever, etc.

    The idea of free health care for everyone is great. However, our current health care system, which is already in a crisis, will have even bigger economic problems if its overburdened with another 40 million non-citizen, low-wage residents seeking free care.

    Before accusing me of getting worked up about this topic, PLEASE listen to the video clips OR read a few articles.

    My "overworked" concern is in good company with CNN's Lou Dobbs, Frank Gaffney, John Corsi, and Congressmen Goode, Stevens, Swecker, Benton, and Paul along with many others.:)
    http://www.jbs.org/node/2539
     
  15. gotmeds?

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Quick, Lucky, get out while you still can! "Socialized" medicine is coming and it's going to get us all! Ayyyyeeeeeee! Doctors are going to end up poor -- just like the indigenous foreigners you were talking about! Run away! Run away!
     
  16. OP
    OP
    Lucky Charm

    Lucky Charm Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Notdeadyet - I posted those SPP government websites because I figured there would be readers such as yourself that would claim this is a conspiracy theory and the SPP doesn't exist.

    But you even questioned if an SPP was signed despite my the official government website.

    Short of providing you with a signed copy of the SPP, what form of media or documentation would be acceptable to you? Last I check, CNN was NOT considered to be conservative......and judging from its number viewers tuning in every night, it's a valid media.

    I've posted information both from liberal and conservative sources. One of those conservative sites you've attacked actually contains a 50 page pdf copy of "Building a North American Community". There is plenty info more available on the internet. Try typing into google: Trans-texas corridor, NAFTA superhighway, North American Union, Security and Prosperity Partnership, or NASCO.
     
  17. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California
    Moderator Verified Expert 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,682
    Likes Received:
    1,836
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    What government website shows the SPP was signed March 25, 2005 as you claim? Several folks have posted government links showing that this is myth.

    And yet the best stuff you can come up with to state your case is all from right wing conspiracy sites. Nice addition of the John Birch Society, by the way...

    Seriously, read more mainstream news coverage and you might find that the boogeyman you fear lacks fangs.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    Lucky Charm

    Lucky Charm Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's not physician salaries I'm concerned about. I'm going into health care regardless of whether it's socialized or not.

    What I'm concerned about is our economic ability to continue to provide quality, and timely patient care. I'd love for everyone to be able to receive excellent care, but at some point there has to be a cut off on the amount of free care US taxpayers can provide.

    In Canada, some have to wait 6 months just to get an MRI......others are simply denied further care because they are too old.

    And if you're going into medicine for the right reasons, it should be a concern to you too..............
     
  19. muireinin

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    God forbid the poor bastards actually get some care(!)
    Just because it's the *US* does not mean citizens DESERVE excellent health more than their less fortunate counterparts...:mad:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California
    Moderator Verified Expert 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,682
    Likes Received:
    1,836
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    It's disingenuous to keep quoting "free flow of people" (three times, so far) as if this is a stated purpose of the SPP.

    Google "free flow of people" and SPP and the only thing you get are (ready?) more of these right wing conspiracy sites. You're an organ, dude..

    I was posting in hopes that others wouldn't falsely believe the nonsense posted here. I don't think that's necessary anymore (it's pretty clear what you're up to), so I'm off.
     
  21. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California
    Moderator Verified Expert 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,682
    Likes Received:
    1,836
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Mods- Shouldn't this be moved to Topics in Healthcare or somesuch? Or the Lounge?
     
  22. gotmeds?

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    993
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Yes and in the U.S., if you're uninsured, you have to wait essentially forever. Or until your condition becomes emergent and it is no longer considered elective. Of course, it usually takes a few months or years of suffering for this to happen. You're right, man. Canada sucks. How can they be so cruel? Our American system is clearly far superior?
     
  23. jspeed24

    jspeed24 New Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0

    Where are you getting the number that 20 million of the 45 million are suspected to be illegal residents?

    According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, while young adults, racial and ethnic minorities, and those who are non-citizens are more likely to be uninsured, most of the uninsured are adults over the age of 30, white, and American citizens. The data source is the Current Population Survey, a survey conducted by the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Census Bureau.
    http://kff.org/uninsured/7451.cfm

    By the way, the number of uninsured is more like over 46 million now, though that may be overstated due to undercounting the number of residents enrolled in Medicaid programs ("Medicaid undercount") and which government survey you choose to believe. Regardless, the number of uninsured will likely rise with the increased erosion of employer-sponsonred insurance.
     
  24. OP
    OP
    Lucky Charm

    Lucky Charm Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Notdeadyet - My mistake....guess I though CNN WAS MAINSTREAM media.

    Who are the "several folks" that have posted link about the SPP myth....??

    Had you bothered to read that John Birch Society link I provided you would have seen it contains link it contains a 'SENATE JOINT MEMORIAL 8004".

    I've posted, here is a direct link to that document. In it, three Senators address the President about the SPP and North American Union and its threat to our national independence. This time, try reading the ENTIRE link before you bother responding. I would copy it on SDN for everyone to see, but its a PDF file.

    IF ANYONE THINKS THE SPP AND NORTH AMERICAN UNION ARE JUST CONSPIRACY, PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE LINK:

    http://www.leg.wa.gov/pub/billinfo/...int Memorials/8004-Prosperity partnership.pdf

    I'd start walking away with your tail between your legs Notdeadyet..........
     
  25. OP
    OP
    Lucky Charm

    Lucky Charm Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jspeed24 - I bet you're correct. I got those numbers from a book, "Health Care Delivery in the United State". However, it was published in 2005, so that number may have grown by now.

    As for the numbers of illegal residents, I've read numbers spanning between 12 million to 30 million. Since they're not exactly advertising they're here illegally, I think its impossible for our government to know the exact number.

    Also, I've heard that many will try to use a family member's social security number when attempting to seek health care....if so that further complicates statistics.
     
  26. brianmartin

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,012
    Likes Received:
    22
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Who cares? It's just a highway!
     
  27. Karina 07

    Karina 07 Membership Revoked
    Removed 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    2
    That's actually bull****. The U.S. would never sign anything that had to do with the free flow of people. It's all about free flowing capital and ****ting on people, i.e. taking advantage of other countries. Currently taking a course on international political economy which particularly deals with customs unions and other trade arrangements.

    Not even going to look into researching this at all, because it is so patently not true.
     
  28. Navicular

    Navicular Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    NO... it's a SUPER highway!
     
  29. Captain Fantastic

    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,756
    Likes Received:
    15

    +1
     
  30. OP
    OP
    Lucky Charm

    Lucky Charm Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Irisheyes....the point I was trying to make is that those immigrating here illegally are not going through any form of health screening. Every human life is equally precious. However, that has nothing to do with our governments failure to protect American citizens from the spread of rare diesases. Just as an illegal resident deserves health care for their infectious disease, don't Americans (who pay for that health care) equally deserve to be protected from catching that disease? There should be some formal process to reduce this public health risk.

    When immigrants enter the US LEGALLY, they first have to wait on line for years, then pay a large sum of money, go through health screening, etc. Do you think those people are less "DESERVING" of access to excellent health care than those that sneak in illegally?
     
  31. riceman04

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    8,505
    Likes Received:
    4
    Status:
    Medical Student
    hahahahahahahaha:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  32. OP
    OP
    Lucky Charm

    Lucky Charm Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Katrina 07 - Please read this short link before you make such an ignorant conclusion.

    THIS IS A FORMAL DOCUMENT WRITTEN BY THREE SENATORS. THEY ADDRESS IT TO PRESIDENT BUSH. In it they question the "SPP", "North American Union" and "NAFTA SUPERHIGHWAY" !!!!

    Link to "SENATE JOINT MEMORIAL 8004"
    http://www.leg.wa.gov/pub/billinfo/...int Memorials/8004-Prosperity partnership.pdf


    Sorry, but I don't think your professor got this memo.........
     
  33. instigata

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    4
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Heeeey you found my little brother's homework assignment! How did it get online!?!?!:smuggrin:
     

Share This Page