Here's My Story

[gr8smile]

So here’s my story… I’m 33 years old, married and in the process of applying to dental school. I attended college between 1992-1996 and performed horribly due to some events in my personal life that I will not get into. I understand everyone has a sob story as an excuse for not performing well academically, but mine involved a chain of really bad events (including a death of a parent). Anyway... I was placed on academic probation (was on probation for two semesters_ and finally dropped out in 1996 with a gpa of … are you ready for this? 1.7. That’s right!!!
I left school and got a job as clerk at a local hospital. I worked really hard and eventually “climbed the corporate ladder” (sorry for the cliché) and became the director of the managed care division where I supervised a staff of 10 and basically had to administrate the managed care and credentialing activities for our faculty practice of about 450+ providers.
In 2004 with the support of my wife I decided to go back to school and pursue dentistry (something that I wanted to do ever since I was a kid). Going back to school meant facing my poor academic record from years ago, and this task seemed insurmountable. I went back to school part time and began to attack my studies with focus and determination like I’ve never experienced before. Excellent grades reflected my new resolve right away.
Here are my grades since I came back to school approx 3 and a half years ago
Intro to Psych - A
General Bio 1 – A+
General Bio 2 – A+
Gen Chem 1 – A
Gen Chem 2 – A
Orgo 1 – B
Orgo 2 – B+
English comp – A
Precalc. – A
Calculus 1 – A
Physics – B+
Philiosphy - A
Bio 17 (cellular Bio) – A
Chem 35 ( inorganic chem.) – A
Biochemistry - C+
Physics 2 – B

I should mention that I was a part time student up until approx. 6 months ago and I also took some classes at a community college since none of the 4 year schools in my area offered these classes in the evening. I finally quit my job (80K a year job… I’m terrified) this past fall and am attending school full time.
I took my DATs in the summer of 2006 and here are my scores:
Bio -18
Chem – 18
Orgo - 27
Reading Comp – 19
QR – 15 (ouch)
PAT - 18
Total science – 20
AA – 19

My overall GPA (including my grades from 15 years ago) is now 2.5.
My science gpa is approx 3.6
My GPA since I went back to school is 3.77

Question - do I have a chance in hell????
I applied to 4 schools in my area. Got rejected from 1 and still waiting to hear from the other three.
I am sorry for the long ramble but I would love some feedback from you guys

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[jigabodo]

So here’s my story… I’m 33 years old, married and in the process of applying to dental school. I attended college between 1992-1996 and performed horribly due to some events in my personal life that I will not get into. I understand everyone has a sob story as an excuse for not performing well academically, but mine involved a chain of really bad events (including a death of a parent). Anyway... I was placed on academic probation (was on probation for two semesters_ and finally dropped out in 1996 with a gpa of … are you ready for this? 1.7. That’s right!!!
I left school and got a job as clerk at a local hospital. I worked really hard and eventually “climbed the corporate ladder” (sorry for the cliché) and became the director of the managed care division where I supervised a staff of 10 and basically had to administrate the managed care and credentialing activities for our faculty practice of about 450+ providers.
In 2004 with the support of my wife I decided to go back to school and pursue dentistry (something that I wanted to do ever since I was a kid). Going back to school meant facing my poor academic record from years ago, and this task seemed insurmountable. I went back to school part time and began to attack my studies with focus and determination like I’ve never experienced before. Excellent grades reflected my new resolve right away.
Here are my grades since I came back to school approx 3 and a half years ago
Intro to Psych - A
General Bio 1 – A+
General Bio 2 – A+
Gen Chem 1 – A
Gen Chem 2 – A
Orgo 1 – B
Orgo 2 – B+
English comp – A
Precalc. – A
Calculus 1 – A
Physics – B+
Philiosphy - A
Bio 17 (cellular Bio) – A
Chem 35 ( inorganic chem.) – A
Biochemistry - C+
Physics 2 – B

I should mention that I was a part time student up until approx. 6 months ago and I also took some classes at a community college since none of the 4 year schools in my area offered these classes in the evening. I finally quit my job (80K a year job… I’m terrified) this past fall and am attending school full time.
I took my DATs in the summer of 2006 and here are my scores:
Bio -18
Chem – 18
Orgo - 27
Reading Comp – 19
QR – 15 (ouch)
PAT - 18
Total science – 20
AA – 19

My overall GPA (including my grades from 15 years ago) is now 2.5.
My science gpa is approx 3.6
My GPA since I went back to school is 3.77

Question - do I have a chance in hell????
I applied to 4 schools in my area. Got rejected from 1 and still waiting to hear from the other three.
I am sorry for the long ramble but I would love some feedback from you guys

Sounds like you would benefit from a SMP since you'll get a separate GPA column.

If by any chance you don't get accepted this cycle, I think you should:

1. Apply to more schools. I would apply to 20 schools if I were you.
2. Retake the DAT and aim for 21+.

 

[gr8smile]

I really hate the thought of retaking the DAT. I don't know if I can do better

 

[jigabodo]

I really hate the thought of retaking the DAT. I don't know if I can do better

What resource did you use?

 

[PorkChop2008]

You have a great chance.

I earned my B.S. in Biochemistry in 1997 and have been out of school since. My GPA was higher than yours, but my DAT was similar. Don't get discouraged man, you can get in if you are determined enough. Good Luck!

 

[gr8smile]

What resource did you use?

I took Kaplan

 

[ElectraOnAzalea]

hey! i think you have a chance, but why only apply to four schools? If this is your dream you need to apply to a LOT more for a much better chance! Even people with amazing stats will sometimes have trouble getting in if they limit their options!

 

[blankguy]

Gr8smile,
I PMed you. You are in a similar situation to mine. Your old self may be irrelevant now since you improved.

 

[StudentDentist]

Just break 3.0 on the GPA. Fluff classes are okay.

 

[gr8smile]

hey! i think you have a chance, but why only apply to four schools? If this is your dream you need to apply to a LOT more for a much better chance! Even people with amazing stats will sometimes have trouble getting in if they limit their options!

This is the reason why applied to only 4 schools. My wife is in private practice and moving out of state would be extremely hard for us since she is the only bread winner in the family. Moving out of state, means getting a new license to practice and try to reestablish a new practice. I'm not sure I want to put her through this. But we've already discussed this and she will move out for me. I'm a very lucky guy, but I know that I would feel extremely guilty.

 

[golfer]

I think you have a chance if you apply to more schools.
What is working against you:
Applied to few schools
GPA cutoff requirements, this mean you may not have a chance to explain your story and get rejected straight away
To make up for the GPA you may need a higher DAT score. You did well the first time, just do it again and study like crazy. It might help to use destroyer, TSP and DAT Achiever.

What is working for you:
Deserving. You gave up a good job to go do something that you want to do
Recent grades. You have been knockin'em out of the park
Life story. You're older, got your head on straight, motivated, life experience, you quit a good job to do this.
DAT. its a good score and with a decent gpa I would bet you would have an acceptance.

What you have to think about.
how many years will you pursue dentistry if not accepted this year?
Is a masters an option? You need a good personal statement. one that can show how you have rebounded in a major way. You need to show them that you won't be a risk (ie quit or will be a hassle to accomadate).

Finally about a quarter or less of the advice given on SDN is good, half of that is relevant, and ten percent of that would probably work in one's situation.

Talk to your pre-health advisor and good luck. I have nothing but respect.

 

[onamission]

Sounds like you would benefit from a SMP since you'll get a separate GPA column.

If by any chance you don't get accepted this cycle, I think you should:

1. Apply to more schools. I would apply to 20 schools if I were you.
2. Retake the DAT and aim for 21+.

Gr8smile, I'm a non-trad also and was in a similar (but different) situation just last year. After no interviews last cycle I earned 2 acceptances this cycle. I agree that a MS program will be your best bet. If you can't get accepted into one, find a school that allows you to take grad courses as a "student-at-large". As far as applying to 20+ schools next cycle, I disagree. You need to apply to the RIGHT schools.

Some schools are more "non-trad" friendly than others. It's not that schools age discriminate, but some have policies that knock you out of the running right away. I know ASDOH & MWU will not even send your app to the adcom if any of your GPAs are <2.5. I was told by an OSU admissions counselor that they have written by-laws that prohibit their adcom from "separating" old grades from your first college attempt and your grades from your recent college experience. Mine were 20 years apart with a recent GPA of 4.0 but I didn't make the cut to have my app seen by the adcom. Anyway, those a just a few examples. You'll just have to do your research by calling the different schools that you're willing to attend and speaking with their counselors. My experience has been that as a non-trad student many schools were very willing to help out.

If you're interested in more details about my situation, just zap me a PM.

 

[golfer]

This is the reason why applied to only 4 schools. My wife is in private practice and moving out of state would be extremely hard for us since she is the only bread winner in the family. Moving out of state, means getting a new license to practice and try to reestablish a new practice. I'm not sure I want to put her through this. But we've already discussed this and she will move out for me. I'm a very lucky guy, but I know that I would feel extremely guilty.

oh cool...What kind of a practice??

 

[jigabodo]

I took Kaplan

You might want to consider more resources.

Like golfer has said, get a hold of Achiever, Destroyer and TS may really increase your DAT score.

 

[jdoc04]

You should present your situation to the schools in which you are applying or have applied if rejections are the result. Find out from them exactly what it is about your application that is holding you back. You seem genuinely interested in the profession and your past seems to only have strengthened you as a person.

Retaking the DAT may come in to play depending on how much time has pasted since your last take. I think the avg is around 2-3 years since your last take for most schools.

Continue taking upper level bio's while you wait for that acceptance. If you can continue to raise your gpa it will increase your chances.

Good Luck!!

 

[rewJW]

Retaking the DAT may come in to play depending on how much time has pasted since your last take. I think the avg is around 2-3 years since your last take for most schools.

Out of curiosity, what does that mean? Schools only look at your new DAT scores if it's been 2-3 years?

I took them last spring and want to take them again this summer.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

I'm a non-traditional applicant that applied at 35, and this year I got into 2 schools, and I still waiting for an answer at two more.

I am impressed with your post-bacc results. Although my undergrad gpa from 1997 was higher than yours (2.9 vs. 1.7), your post-bacc grades are far better (3.5 vs. 3.77).

From all the conversations I had with dentists and adcomms, here's what I would do if were you:
- Take more classes this summer (anatomy, microbio, histology, etc)
- Reapply on May 15th to at least 10 schools. Right now, you need to increase your chances of an acceptance. Later, you can decide if you will really attend a particular school or not.
- Retake the DAT. Although your scores are good, they are not excellent. With your undergrad gpa situation, you badly need excellent scores (21+). I would take the test in spring.
- Get enrolled in a 1-year M.S. program.
- Get some serious shadowing and volunteer experience. During interviews, I was always asked about these two topics.

All of the above items will be included on your AADSAS app. It shows that you can handle a full-load of classes over a long duration of time.

Although your post-bacc grades are outstanding, the adcomms "could" use it against you that only recently you became a full-time student.

From your post-bacc results, I am certain that you will get in next year.

 

[jdoc04]

I took my DATs in the summer of 2006

My comment concerning retaking the DAT was looking to a FUTURE issue that may arise. If you have to reapply which would be in 2008 putting you 2 years from your last attempt. I just wanted you to be aware of that possibility.

 

[dr bojangles]

My comment concerning retaking the DAT was looking to a FUTURE issue that may arise. If you have to reapply which would be in 2008 putting you 2 years from your last attempt. I just wanted you to be aware of that possibility.

yes definitely consider this. i took mine summer 05, did well, but got waitlists all around. i checked a few months back. most schools want scores <2 years old (from app deadline i think, but use that to be safe), some even say <3 years (like tufts). unfortunately for me, i have to retake them. sucks, but its obviously necessary in order to attain the dream. by the way, you ate that DAT orgo section alive!
good luck.

 

[sarah_bellum]

Sounds like you would benefit from a SMP since you'll get a separate GPA column.

If by any chance you don't get accepted this cycle, I think you should:

1. Apply to more schools. I would apply to 20 schools if I were you.
2. Retake the DAT and aim for 21+.

You'll get a separate GPA for each school attended as well. Your new grades will be combined for your cumulative, but GPA is also calculated by school attended.

 

[rockhound]

I am in a very similar situation to you as well. Long story short, my over all GPA is a 2.93, but I have gotten all As since returning to school this time around. I applied to 11 schools. I had my application in by August, and my DAT scores were average to slightly above average. I have not gotten a single interview. I have been formally rejected by all but three schools so far.

It is a very frustrating situation, but at the same time, I understand the process. I mean, if they have to go through thousands of applications for such a small number of spots, it only makes sense to start filtering by raw numbers. However, it really doesn't make me feel any better about where I am left. In fact, I am so discouraged that I am wondering if it will be a waste of even more money (which I don't have) to apply again next year. I know that I will, but at the same time, I can't imagine going into even more debt for something that may not pay off. (Before people jump down my throat, I know that I will acquire nauseating amounts of debt if I am admitted, but at least you know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, because you will start making money in a few years.)

Anyhow, I feel your pain, and I wish you the very best. I can't really offer any advice, because, like I said, I am in essentially the same situation. Nonetheless, just keep up the good work, and thanks for posting....it looks like there is some good advice.

 

[Dentalishus]

My advice to anybody returning to school with a low GPA is to get into a science related masters program like Biomed or something of the sort. Take classes similar to those offered in dental school like gross anatomy, neuroscience. A masters program does wonders for your GPA if you maintain a high GPA in the program.

 

[blankguy]

Just to cheer people up here I'll sum up my story.
I went to Brandeis University. Pulled a overall GPA of 2.61 which included two Fs in orgo I and F in Bio I along with the corresponding labs. Got myself in probation and was asked to take time off. Graduate 2 years late in 1997.

Last 3 or 4 years retook some prereqs and upper level courses(Biochem and Anatomy & Physiology) after taking some comsci courses because I was originally thinking of getting into IT. I got nothing less than A-s. Put my grades in AADSAS this was the result overall GPA 3.24 Science GPA 3.48! BCP GPA 3.65!!!!! That combined with DAT of 19/20/21 (AA/TS/PAT)
landed me an acceptance at SUNY-Buffalo I am very fortunate that I got into a dental school. I just didn't expect a state school!

It can be done. Good luck everybody. I think this cycle is going to be the high point of number of applicants. I don't expect the crazy increases of applicants like years past for the next few years.

 

[blankguy]

I would also like to add that going to school now(whether dental, post bacc, or other grad) is great timing. The economy is in a rut.

 

[lillieflower]

keep your head up rockhound. you will get in. you are determined. i would recommend taking out a loan and applying to as maaaany schools as possible. best of luck!

 

[cskpeter]

gr8smile, I have nothing but tremendous respect against you. You are truly worthy of this profession. Since this cycle is not over yet I wish you the best till the end but even when you don't get in this year don't you ever give up and try again. You have a supportive, loving wife and seemed to be very determined so I think it's just a matter of time for you to get an acceptance. Keep your chins up!

 

[blankguy]

gr8smile,
you got nothing to lose go for it! The adcoms will definitely acknowledge that you are your new self. I feel that the intangibles will give you an edge over the traditional applicants. You have taken far more responsibility in your life.