Hi, can you help out an "ex-premed"

[amena]

Hi everyone,
I hope someone can help me with a q i have. I just completed my soph year and am now entering spring 2005 as a junior.. even though "technically" im considered a soph (b/c of the whole year issue). Anyway, I've switched from a PA major as a freshman to a BIO major as asoph and have been miserable in both. My depression, and hence low grades(gpa is 3.02) was due to the whole premed pressure at the time. Now, however, im reconsidering everything - at this point, i dont know if any of you have been through this, but im seriousely thinking of just dropping my medical pursuits and consider dentistry. I know this sounds bad, Im not doing this because of any other reason but the fact that, i realized that if i really truly wanted med i wouldnt do so bad in science or cave into the pressure so badly or be so depressed. My family, friends and even advisor have told me to consider dentistry. And after researching it - I think I may actually enjoy it as a profession even though i didnt pursue it from the start. But hey, dont we all change our minds at some point in our lives about the major decisions?

Anyway, If i were to pursue this - can you guys fill me in on the process as a whole for you. How would you compare it to the med school admission process? Is it the same, easier or harder? Any major differences? Please if you could share some of your feelings, thoughts, advice itd be sincerely appreciated. Thanks so much.

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[ecdoesit]

Thank you for your honesty. I was a ex-premed too. There are way too many cool gadgets and other reasons for me to switch. But all I say right now is that pressure will always be there no matter which doctorate degree you pursue. Learn how to deal with that. Perhaps change your study habit maybe a good start? Ever since dental sch started, I think me and my peers have changed our daily habit to fit into the tough curriculum. If things doesnt work out, u getta try other things to get a better grade. Things like going to office hour, get tutoring, etc. And meanwhile, if u have time, please shadow more than one dentist. Hopefully, you will enjoy dentistry as a profession in the future =)

 

[t12kim]

My depression, and hence low grades(gpa is 3.02)

do you think you will easily get into a dental school with your grade???

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

Hi everyone,
... i realized that if i really truly wanted med i wouldnt do so bad in science or cave into the pressure so badly or be so depressed.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but the first two years of dental school are very science intensive...so you might want to consider another path if this is your weak point.

Also, you have a 3.02 and you say your science is weak so I will assume this is because you did bad in your science classes. If my assumption is correct, you still have time to buckle down and raise that GPA...you will need all A's if my assumption is true.

The quality of applicant's is going up every year. For the class of 2007 the national entering GPA was 3.3 and I assume it will hit 3.4 very soon.

I'm not trying to discourage you, just telling you the reailty and that it can be done IF you WORK HARD from now on. Get out and shadow a dentist and do things to make your application shine

 

[edkNARF]

Hi everyone,
I hope someone can help me with a q i have. I just completed my soph year and am now entering spring 2005 as a junior.. even though "technically" im considered a soph (b/c of the whole year issue). Anyway, I've switched from a PA major as a freshman to a BIO major as asoph and have been miserable in both. My depression, and hence low grades(gpa is 3.02) was due to the whole premed pressure at the time. Now, however, im reconsidering everything - at this point, i dont know if any of you have been through this, but im seriousely thinking of just dropping my medical pursuits and consider dentistry. I know this sounds bad, Im not doing this because of any other reason but the fact that, i realized that if i really truly wanted med i wouldnt do so bad in science or cave into the pressure so badly or be so depressed. My family, friends and even advisor have told me to consider dentistry. And after researching it - I think I may actually enjoy it as a profession even though i didnt pursue it from the start. But hey, dont we all change our minds at some point in our lives about the major decisions?

Anyway, If i were to pursue this - can you guys fill me in on the process as a whole for you. How would you compare it to the med school admission process? Is it the same, easier or harder? Any major differences? Please if you could share some of your feelings, thoughts, advice itd be sincerely appreciated. Thanks so much.

Welcome to the dental forums. As you can see, ex-premeds are not usually the most welcome guests on the predental forum. If you are honest about dentistry, I would spend a few weeks shadowing a dentists. That is the best way you can learn about the profession.
Unfortunately, I do agree will Broc. You will need to raise your GPA significantly to gain acceptance to dental school. Dental school may be easier to get into that medical school, but it is not a cake walk. You will need to study hard. Good Luck!

 

[USAF_Dentman]

First of all, i think you really need to want to go into dentistry. I get tired of the whole "well your grades arent good, you should go into dentistry" thing, because, as was stated earlier, its getting harder to get in. A 3.02 GPA is not a gaurantee to get in, so you really need to try to get the grades up some.

I dont mean to come across as being angry, but dentistry is NOT a backup plan.

But if this is what you really want to do, i'm excited that you're on this forum and ready to get some info on this career. Best of Luck!

 

[Sprgrover]

Hi amena

First off, welcome to SDN and the dental forums! I know exactly what you are going through. I started out as a biology major/pre-professional student and during my first two years I was miserable. I earned great grades in high school, was able to wave or place out of a lot of pre-reqs, jumped into upper division courses thinking I knew exactly what I wanted for myself. With adulthood setting in, more-or-less on my own, and being in the university environment which affords so many opportunities for exploration and learning, I began to really question myself and the direction I was taking my life. And much like you I became really depressed and I let some of my grades slip. Long story short, my stepfather persuaded me to change my major to something that I was interested in (art and art history).

Even though I went back to dentistry, I don't regret my decision to switch majors and delay my graduation one bit. Beyond the invaluable intangibles that I gained, such as cultural understanding, I took my studies very seriously and enjoyed them, which enhanced my work/study ethic - I didn't feel the same kind of damaging, self-inflicted pressure to excel that I did earlier and in its absence I developed a more forgiving, confident self-image. I found that when I returned to finish my remaining pre-reqs this change of outlook was of tremendous benefit. Yes, the science courses were tough and painful, but the same study habits and self-assurance that I developed during my hiatus from science enabled me earn high A's in all the courses that I undertook since.

I mention this because I feel you are in a similar situation that I was once in. Don't become a dentist, a PA, or an MD because of what others think you should do with your life. Make a sound decision based on what you value, what would make you a better person, and what you can live with for years to come. Like medical schools, you don't have to major in biology or any related areas to matriculate into dental school. While a background in science can be a plus, it's not necessary. For me it took changing majors and mixing things up to arrive at a decision that I was truly confident in - and that confidence has been a real help.

As far as the application process is concerned, it's somewhat of a necessary pain. Ideally you will fill out your application to AADSAS in May or early June and submit it, pay any secondary application fees to the schools that you have applied. You will take the DAT somewhere around this time and hopefully earn scores good enough (~19) to earn you interviews, which, if you get your application in early, are conducted between August through December (or even later, it just depends on the timing of your application). December 1st is the date afterwhich schools can notify you of an acceptance around this time acceptance letters start pouring out and hopefully, if you have played your hand right, you'll have a few coming your way.

In short, I suggest that you take a breather from your science courses and don't rush into any major decision. I don't think that it is the difficulty of your science classes so much as it is your lack of enthusiasm and questions surrounding the direction of your future which is stymieing your academic performance. Spend some time abroad, enroll in some courses that you are interested in - regardless if they will help you with any job prospects or not. During this time strike up a friendship with a couple of dentists and shadow them (pick someone with good ethics, a great staff, and one who treats his/her patients well - think role model). Ask a lot of questions of yourself and them - their profession, their lifestyle, the pros and cons, their dental school experience, etc. Personally, that is what I did and what I recommend. Best of luck!

 

[fleisch]

Sprgrover~Im pretty sure you are the most reliable advice-giver on this entire site...Kudos for you for always providing a source of sound judgement and intelligence...You are gonna make a great dentist someday!

 

[RachMSU]

Sprgrover~Im pretty sure you are the most reliable advice-giver on this entire site...Kudos for you for always providing a source of sound judgement and intelligence...You are gonna make a great dentist someday!

Hey, I agree with you 100%. Sprgrover, I just wanted to say thank you for all of your posts. You always seem to go the extra mile and are willing to help everyone. You helped me get over my DAT problems and I know you have helped a ton of other people so on behalf of SDN, THANK YOU!!!!!!

 

[dexadental]

yup sprgrover is incredibly helpful...
thanks!

 

[aphistis]

Hey, I agree with you 100%. Sprgrover, I just wanted to say thank you for all of your posts. You always seem to go the extra mile and are willing to help everyone. You helped me get over my DAT problems and I know you have helped a ton of other people so on behalf of SDN, THANK YOU!!!!!!

Boy, where's the karma system when we really need it?

 

[RachMSU]

Boy, where's the karma system when we really need it?

Ah Bill, you know we love you too! You also have been a big help so THANK YOU for that. Do you feel the love now?

 

[aphistis]

Ah Bill, you know we love you too! You also have been a big help so THANK YOU for that. Do you feel the love now?

Aw, you're too nice. You can't tell, but I'm blushing. I agree, Sprgover is a great asset to the pre-dent board.

 

[Sprgrover]

Aw, thanks everyone! It's nice to know that I'm not typing in the wind - I really appreciate your compliments and comments!

 

[toofache32]

How would you compare it to the med school admission process? Is it the same, easier or harder? Any major differences? Please if you could share some of your feelings, thoughts, advice itd be sincerely appreciated. Thanks so much.

As someone who has been through both dental & medical school, I'll give my 2 cents. It seemed to me that med school admissions were slightly (not much) more competitive than dental, probably because the majority of people (like you) only consider med school, and not dental. But once you're accepted, the tables turn. I have to say that dental school was WAY more difficult and stressful than med school. The med students don't take near as many courses and the material is much more spoon-fed. Of course, I can only speak for the dental and medical schools I am/have attended. I haven't had this much free time since college. I even had time to work as a TA for the med student gross anatomy course on the side.

Dental school was way more stressful for me because the patients are so unpredictable. If a patient doesn't show up in dental school people cry because you have to see a certain number of patients to graduate. n In med school you cry if a patient DOES show up because then you can't go home early.

I think the main reason for all this is because in dental school you take the same core science courses as the med students, but then you have your dental courses on top of it. It's basiclally like doing your residency at the same time. That's why you can be done after 4 years of dental school and have alot of skills. Med students have to do residency because they're not competent to do anything but a Physical Exam and track down x-rays for your residents.

 

[dentalguy]

THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT.....ITS ABOUT TIME I READ A POST THAT SAYS DENTAL SCHOOL IS CHALLENGING


I AGREE I AM SICK OF HEARING THAT DENTAL SCHOOL IS A BACKUP......BUT NOT TO SOUND LIKE A GRUMP.....IF YOU LIKE OBSERVING AND FEEL COMFORTATBLE IN THAT TYPE OF OFFICE THEN DENTISTRY IS RIGHT FOR YOU


Class of 2009 hopefully

 

[dentalguy]

what i mean to say its about time I read a post that says dental school is harder than med school...

 

[ku06]

I don't think general assumptions can be made that dental school is harder than med school or med school is harder than dental school because until you have attended all of them, you are not in a position to make this judgement. You can never rely on "word of mouth" to come up with a saying that defines a topic.

 

[ku06]

Also, if the stats I have heard of are right, if you get in both dental and med school it is pretty hard to fail and not become a dentist or physician (maybe not the type you want to be, but a professional none the less). In my opinion, this says to me that both have good students who take courses that are not extremely difficult to get a passing grade in. If dental schools are saying look to your left and look to your right, those people will not graduate then I would say that dental schools are pretty damn tough. Same with med schools. But both are not, so therefore this comparing toughness of dental to med is fruitless. Also, Hippoman: Which did you attend first. Wouldn't this make it easier at the second school you attended since both have general sciences being taught?

 

[aphistis]

Also, if the stats I have heard of are right, if you get in both dental and med school it is pretty hard to fail and not become a dentist or physician (maybe not the type you want to be, but a professional none the less). In my opinion, this says to me that both have good students who take courses that are not extremely difficult to get a passing grade in. If dental schools are saying look to your left and look to your right, those people will not graduate then I would say that dental schools are pretty damn tough. Same with med schools. But both are not, so therefore this comparing toughness of dental to med is fruitless. Also, Hippoman: Which did you attend first. Wouldn't this make it easier at the second school you attended since both have general sciences being taught?

In 6-year OMS residencies, you don't take the first two years of medical school. You have to pass the Step I of the USMLE to prove you're competent in them, and then you enroll in the M3 and M4 years.

(Am I close, toofache?)

 

[toofache32]

I don't think general assumptions can be made that dental school is harder than med school or med school is harder than dental school because until you have attended all of them, you are not in a position to make this judgement.

I have attended both. That's how I validate my previous post. Talk to any oral surgery residents who have done both and they will tell you the same thing.

In 6-year OMS residencies, you don't take the first two years of medical school. You have to pass the Step I of the USMLE to prove you're competent in them, and then you enroll in the M3 and M4 years.

(Am I close, toofache?)

A minority of residencies (including mine) make you do parts of the 2nd year of med school, but you do less of the 4th year so it all adds up to about 24 months. The second year of med school is supposedly the most academically challenging, but I still had way more free time than in dental school. It's not that the dental stuff is more difficult, it's just that dental school asks you to digest larger bodies of knowledge in a shorter amount of time.

 

[jessUMD]

I have attended both. That's how I validate my previous post. Talk to any oral surgery residents who have done both and they will tell you the same thing.

i think this person was trying to say the opinion isn't valid unless you have attended ALL the dental and medical schools (which is obviously impossible), not if you had attended just one particular dental school and one particular medical school.

 

[dentalguy]

The only thing I was defending are the people who have said that dental school is a backup. I was just sick of people (especially at my school) that they are going into dentistry because its easier for them. I didn't understand when my friends said this and I don't think I ever will. I was by no means saying that dental students are better than med students or anything along those lines. Sorry if it came off that way

dentalguy

 

[amena]

wow I am truly greatful that you all have taken the time to give your sincere comments and advice. I didnt expect so much responses and sorry I didnt even get to come check it till now - so thanks all of you for all your comments, I'm sorry if I in anyway made it seem like Dental school was easier than med school...I really meant that my advisors in fact feel that way for some reason (so just telling their outlooks on it), and I agree that people should in fact take it more seriously as a challenging and vigorous 4-yr of study.Thanks ; ) Good Luck to all of you!

 

[Literati81]

In 6-year OMS residencies, you don't take the first two years of medical school. You have to pass the Step I of the USMLE to prove you're competent in them, and then you enroll in the M3 and M4 years.

(Am I close, toofache?)

Would an aspiring OMS resident also need to take the MCAT in addition to Step 1 of the USMLE? Also, would they need to take Step 2 and 3 afterwards?

...and can anyone tell me the difference between doing a residency in oral medicine versus OMS? Someone told me they were the same thing.

Thanks!

 

[toofache32]

Would an aspiring OMS resident also need to take the MCAT in addition to Step 1 of the USMLE? Also, would they need to take Step 2 and 3 afterwards?

...and can anyone tell me the difference between doing a residency in oral medicine versus OMS? Someone told me they were the same thing.

Thanks!

You don't take the MCAT. The majority of dual-degree OMS programs have an agreement with the med school...the med school takes whoever the OMS residency gives them. Some med schools have stipulations (like >90 on NBDE Part 1), but for the most part they know the director of the OMS residency is sending them high-quality people. As far as getting a medical degree, you have to take any required licensing boards, including USMLE steps 1,2 & 3. It's not as bad as it sounds....as long as you've shown up for work every day you'll pass easily.

OMS and Oral Medicine are entirely different and really have very little to do with each other. For starters, oral medicine is not an ADA-recognized dental specialty. Second, by definition, surgeons treat surgical problems whereas medicine guys treat medical problems. I don't know enough about oral medicine to say much more about their field.

 

[aceking]

The only thing I was defending are the people who have said that dental school is a backup. I was just sick of people (especially at my school) that they are going into dentistry because its easier for them. I didn't understand when my friends said this and I don't think I ever will. I was by no means saying that dental students are better than med students or anything along those lines. Sorry if it came off that way

dentalguy

Dont be friends with them ^^

 

[dWiz]

I know this sounds bad, Im not doing this because of any other reason but the fact that, i realized that if i really truly wanted med i wouldnt do so bad in science or cave into the pressure so badly or be so depressed.

ok i'm confused, what exactly should we expect to study in dental school..arts and crafts?

 

[Tzips]

ok i'm confused, what exactly should we expect to study in dental school..arts and crafts?

um, in prostho, yeah...