Hmmm....MCAT more important or GPA !!??

[Disenchanted 1]

Hey guys....here is a question. I was wondering in the long run, in deciding who to accept, do Med schools focus more on GPA or MCAT. I realize that both are important and that probably it is a balance of both, but my problem is this: Lets say that you have a high GPA but a relatively low MCAT. What do you think catches their attention more!!?? Is it ok to have it this way or to have a lower GPA and higher MCAT. What do you think ?

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[Rippey]

i would say the MCAT is much more impt than GPA esp. in that a high MCAT score can make up for a low GPA, but not vice versa.

it's too bad more importance is placed on an 8hr test than 3+years of college work --- but oh well, it works nicely for us lazy folks

 

[Disenchanted 1]

not for me......I am not a good test taker.

 

[jlee9531]

8 hour tests rule!

3 years of work...boo

 

[Disenchanted 1]

My opinion, but I think that is so unfair. The fact that you bust your butt off for 3-4 years. and then an 8 hour test can screw you like this.....urg %$##

 

[Rippey]

Originally posted by Disenchanted 1
My opinion, but I think that is so unfair. The fact that you bust your butt off for 3-4 years. and then an 8 hour test can screw you like this.....urg %$##

yeah... i know it sux , but it's kinda hard to compare GPA's from diff schools since grading scales and the difficulty of obtaining certain grades may vary significantly from one school to the next.

the MCAT, however, places everyone on the same field. since all applicants take the same test (or some variation of the same test), it's pretty easy to compare the knowledge bases and "intelligence" of different people by score analysis.

i'm guessing this is why the MCAT is weighted more than GPA.

anyway, best of luck to you in TX

i myself am also waiting for the match on feb 1 (you can't beat the tuition in Texas!!!)

 

[jlee9531]

Originally posted by Rippey
yeah... i know it sux , but it's kinda hard to compare GPA's from diff schools since grading scales and the difficulty of obtaining certain grades may vary significantly from one school to the next.

the MCAT, however, places everyone on the same field. since all applicants take the same test (or some variation of the same test), it's pretty easy to compare the knowlege bases and "intelligence" of different people by score analysis.

i'm guessing this is why the MCAT is weighted more than GPA.

anyway, best of luck to you in TX

i myself am also waiting for the match on feb 1 (you can't beat the tuition in Texas!!!)

this is very true. or else might as well go get straight As at a less intensive school right?

if you bust your butt for 3 years and do well...the mcat should be the hopefully good results of the culmination of all your hard work

 

[Disenchanted 1]

nop Jlee....I still busted my ass off for MCAT too and I didn't get crap back as far as score goes. I am just not a good test taker. And I also have friends who are extremely intelligent and have been able to pull off A's in extremely hard classes but their MCAT scores sucked.
Also completely agree with you rippey as far as the tuition. Always an added bonus.

 

[jlee9531]

Originally posted by Disenchanted 1
nop Jlee....I still busted my ass off for MCAT too and I didn't get crap back as far as score goes. I am just not a good test taker. And I also have friends who are extremely intelligent and have been able to pull off A's in extremely hard classes but their MCAT scores sucked.
Also completely agree with you rippey as far as the tuition. Always an added bonus.

sorry man. my friend had high grades but wasnt a great test taker but still ended up a med school that he loves.

 

[CalBeE]

If you have a high GPA in a school with rigorous curriculm and no inflated grade system, a low MCAT will probably won't hurt that much, especially if your major is in some hard sciences or humanities.

I got a low verbal score (8), so when I went to interview, I reminded my interviewers to look back at the grades for my English classes, which was decent grades.

 

[Mr. Rosewater]

well, after your incredibly grueling 4 years of med school, a couple of truly bad procedures can do major harm to your career. That's just how it is, pple wanna know how you're gonna perform when the pressure's on.

 

[Disenchanted 1]

Thanks guys, I really hope that you guys are right and that I can get in to med school. What do you consider a hard major. I am actually a bio B.A. major.........yea along with 200 million other students!! do you call that a hard science.
I just hope that med schools will do a better job of looking at the whole person instead of just the person as the cumulative result of a whole buncha numbers and stats.

 

[Disenchanted 1]

well, after your incredibly grueling 4 years of med school, a couple of truly bad procedures can do major harm to your career. That's just how it is, pple wanna know how you're gonna perform when the pressure's on.

I agree Mr. rosewater about that....but what I am trying to say is that they should look at the whole package. Yes, I already realize the fact that they are trying to measure performance and efficiency under pressure. But you have to realize that some people are just brilliant and perform best under pressure while others work hard and with much passion to achieve the same results. I have never been good at standardized tests, however I am very hard working and have a great passion to continue my education in medicine, as I am sure a lot of u guys have too. I don't think it is fair of them to compare MCAT with performance under pressure in for example a medical emergency as they often do. It is simply not the same. Sorry for the rambling, all I am saying basically is that I wish they could look at all of us and not focus so much on that little low GPA/MCAT or whatever else it is and try and have an open mind and look at the whole person. I know they say that they do but unfortunately the stats speak for themselves.

 

[gschl1234]

Originally posted by Rippey
i would say the MCAT is much more impt than GPA esp. in that a high MCAT score can make up for a low GPA, but not vice versa.

it's too bad more importance is placed on an 8hr test than 3+years of college work --- but oh well, it works nicely for us lazy folks

Although 3+ years of work means a lot to each of us personally, I still think the MCAT should have more weight than GPA. The problem is that some majors are easier than others. For example, engineering students often have around 3.1 or so. That doesn't necessarily mean that they slacked off or are not as bright as biology majors with 3.9. Some schools are easier than others. It is difficult to judge who is better between a person who maintains a 4.0 during his/her first two years at a community college (and then dropped off after transferring to a 4 year college but only has 1 year of grades from the 4 year college showing on AMCAS) vs. a person who has a lower GPA from a school known for tough grading. The MCAT is the only objective and fair way adcoms have of comparing students with different majors from different schools.

 

[CalBeE]

Originally posted by gschl1234
The problem is that some majors are easier than others. For example, engineering students often have around 3.1 or so. That doesn't necessarily mean that they slacked off or are not as bright as biology majors with 3.9.

Some of the Bio majors are actually really hard! My major at UCLA (Microbio, immunology, molecular genetics) has rumored to have an average GPA of somewhere below 3.0!

On an unrelated note, does anyone notice that law school admission focuses so much more on GPA and LSAT score? (Look at the average stats for top schools on US News) I think med schools are doing a lot better in terms of looking at the whole package. Let's just be grateful

 

[gschl1234]

Originally posted by CalBeE
On an unrelated note, does anyone notice that law school admission focuses so much more on GPA and LSAT score? (Look at the average stats for top schools on US News) I think med schools are doing a lot better in terms of looking at the whole package. Let's just be grateful

Yes, but that cuts both ways. People who have worked extremely hard for 3+ years and scored well on MCAT may feel pretty disappointed being thrown-over for an interview by an applicant with significantly lower stats but "better overall package." The biggest problem is that the definition of "overall package" is so amorphous we don't know what it means at each school or what it means from person to person for that matter. Virtually all applicants have volunteer, research and shadowing experience. What sets us apart at one school may not matter at another. Whether or not numbers outweigh "whole package", lots of qualified, compassionate people will get hurt and feel like they did not get a fair chance.

 

[Nutmeg]

Originally posted by CalBeE
I got a low verbal score (8), so when I went to interview, I reminded my interviewers to look back at the grades for my English classes, which was decent grades.

...which were decent grades.


(j/k!)

 

[gschl1234]

Originally posted by CalBeE
Some of the Bio majors are actually really hard! My major at UCLA (Microbio, immunology, molecular genetics) has rumored to have an average GPA of somewhere below 3.0!

I don't mean to step on any toes by using Biology as an example. I was a chemistry major so I don't know all the ins and outs of biology as a major but from knowing and going through college with friends who got BA's in Biology, they said that although it is not cakewalk, as long as you put in time A's would natrually come because the concepts were simple. This may be different for Microbiology/Immunology/Molecular Genetics (are you getting 3 degrees?) but I don't think I knew anyone getting those specific degrees. In fact, I am truly ignorant because I thought that those were just courses. I didn't know that there were BA's/BS's offered in those subjects. I used engineering as another example because my engineering friends always seemed to be suffering. Their courses seemed very tough (I looked through my friend's notes) and they often had enormous (seemingly impossible) projects. In general my biology friends had very high GPA's (which they worked hard to maintain) and my engineering friends had much lower GPA's (which they also had to work hard to maintain.) I thought my biology and engineering friends were about equally bright which is why GPA doesn't seem like a fair way to evaluate between the two.

 

[CalBeE]

Originally posted by gschl1234
This may be different for Microbiology/Immunology/Molecular Genetics (are you getting 3 degrees?) but I don't think I knew anyone getting those specific degrees.

It's actually one degree with a fancy name (UC's tend to do that)

Yes, but that cuts both ways. People who have worked extremely hard for 3+ years and scored well on MCAT may feel pretty disappointed being thrown-over for an interview by an applicant with significantly lower stats but "better overall package."

I think the rationale behind it is that most, if not all, people worked really hard for 3 or more years (including master's, postbac, etc.) Sometimes grades and MCAT just don't reflect one's abilities, even if that person put in much time and effort.

The overall package sorta takes in a person's life experience (That'll include more than EC's, research, volunteering) into perspective. I agree that these are things that are hard to be quantitized, but the brighter side is that there are so many med schools in the U.S. that are good, if one school passes on you, you still have dozen other choices.

 

[CalBeE]

Originally posted by Nutmeg
...which were decent grades.


(j/k!)

hey I did that on purpose to see if anyone's smart enough to spot the mistake!

 

[JohnHolmes]

Originally posted by Disenchanted 1
Hey guys....here is a question. I was wondering in the long run, in deciding who to accept, do Med schools focus more on GPA or MCAT. I realize that both are important and that probably it is a balance of both, but my problem is this: Lets say that you have a high GPA but a relatively low MCAT. What do you think catches their attention more!!?? Is it ok to have it this way or to have a lower GPA and higher MCAT. What do you think ?

Most would agree a great MCAT score can make up for an undesirable GPA, but a great GPA cannot make up for an undesirable MCAT score.

Coops

 

[NDESTRUKT]

i've seen people with average GPA's (3.5) and a high MCAT score (33-35) get in over a high GPA (above 3.7) and lower MCAT score (29-31) at the same place...sometimes i think they look at what your major was and where you went to school.

 

[logos]

Originally posted by CalBeE
It's actually one degree with a fancy name (UC's tend to do that)

Thats so not fair....sounds so much better than the degree that i'm getting in plain old "microbiology". These cool names drive me nuts...people automatically think that they are so hard.

Our (famous) quarterback here is a mol gen major, so everytime during the games when the anouncer brings up the fact that he is a mol gen major with a decent GPA I get to hear about how hard mol gen must be. Just because it sounds cool dosent make it hard...

 

[Nutmeg]

I'm simultaneously persuing a Molecular Bio BA and a Chemical Eng BS. I just tinkered with my GPA calculating spreadsheet. If I ignore all of my engineering courses, and compare that to my GPA if I ignore all of my bio courses, my GPA only changes in the third decimal place.

Of course , there are two factors that separate the two: in ChemE, you have to do the work because a lot of it is lab write-ups and group projects, etc. MCB is mostly go to lecture, take tests, and so I generally put this at the bottom of my priorities. Second is that memorization will always require studying, no matter how bright you are, whereas I can do well on some engineering tests without studying because they test your ability to reason concepts.

 

[Nutmeg]

Also, this is only looking at upper division courses taken after transferring to Cal. I have 9 courses in the MCB list versus 21 in the ChemE list, and my engineering classmates generally have heavier courseloads than my MCB classmates.

 

[XT777]

to answer the original question:

whatever violates expectations will get the most attention be it positivly or negativly. Of, course, of the two, negative violations, always seem to garner more attention.

 

[R_C_Hutchinson]

Originally posted by jlee9531
8 hour tests rule!

3 years of work...boo

ditto. not that im saying its fair.

 

[Optimist]

Originally posted by Nutmeg
I'm simultaneously persuing a Molecular Bio BA and a Chemical Eng BS. I just tinkered with my GPA calculating spreadsheet. If I ignore all of my engineering courses, and compare that to my GPA if I ignore all of my bio courses, my GPA only changes in the third decimal place.

You have a GPA calculating spreadsheet? ::cough:gunner:cough::

j/k

Anyway, yeah, I'll go with the consensus that MCAT is more important than GPA since a great MCAT can compensate for a below average GPA, but not vice versa.

 

[UCLAstudent]

I think that one's MCAT score is more important, too. It may not be the most fair test, but it does provide a more equal way of comparing pre-meds.

 

[peterockduke]

Originally posted by UCLAstudent
I think that one's MCAT score is more important, too. It may not be the most fair test, but it does provide a more equal way of comparing pre-meds.

Agreed. I'm tired of people trying to talk about how hard their classes are and then you see their school has a MCAT ave. of 24.
Apparently it's a whole school of not so hot test takers...

If you're not a good test taker than you have no business being in medical school. If you had a good gpa up until the MCAT, how did you get that gpa? Your sparkling smile? Hell no, TESTS!

And I'm sure medical school should understand that you're not a good test taker b/c they won't ever ever EVER give you tests...(not to mention the boards...).

 

[oldtimer]

Originally posted by Rippey
i would say the MCAT is much more impt than GPA esp. in that a high MCAT score can make up for a low GPA, but not vice versa.

it's too bad more importance is placed on an 8hr test than 3+years of college work --- but oh well, it works nicely for us lazy folks

Amen. I wouldn't have been accepted otherwise!

 

[Nutmeg]

Originally posted by Optimist
You have a GPA calculating spreadsheet? ::cough:gunner:cough::

j/k

Anyway, yeah, I'll go with the consensus that MCAT is more important than GPA since a great MCAT can compensate for a below average GPA, but not vice versa.

I'm not quite a gunner. My GPA is somewhere around 3.3. i have the spreadsheet because I have 240 semester units from what will soon be 8 years. I made the spreadsheet to see what kinds of improvements would be necessary to get to Berkeley from JC, and I had to go from a 3.0 to a 3.6. Now I use the spreadsheet to keep track of everything, as it took careful planning to finish the requirements for the MCB BA and the ChemE BS and still get out of Berkeley within three years.

 

[Rose122]

I agree that the MCAT is more important. First of all, they do a statistical analysis based on MCAT but not gpa because there are too many variables to consider and, consequently, not enough samples. Besides, my friend got an "A" in chemistry because of her willingness to provide sexual favors for her prof but did poorly on the MCAT and was unable to gain an accpetance anywhere. How is that for a tough pill to swallow.

 

[That Girl Farah]

I have a below average MCAT and a below average GPA relative to pretty much every Texas medical school but I got into one, so who knows what's important.

After going through this whole interview process and talking to admissions staff people and deans (here in TX anyways), I've really come away believing that the numbers aren't everything. Yea, they count, but if they were everything, why the hell would they bother with interviews?

To me, it's always gonna be a mystery how people get into med school and how some don't. A guy I know has a 35 MCAT and a 4.0 and didn't match with any TX schools. I've got a 3.5 and a 27 and I did. What the hell's going on?! Not that I'm complaining... but just goes to show, numbers don't add up to a lot in some cases.

 

[ionltd]

overall gpa 3.78
science GPA 3.87
MCAT 25
triple major Biochem, Biology, Math
good ec's

accepted SIU, UIC
upcoming interview Rush

Damn MCAT, glad the adcomms read the rest of my app

 

[Wrigleyville]

Originally posted by Nutmeg
...which were decent grades.


(j/k!)

LOL! Everybody was thinking the same thing.

 

[Wrigleyville]

Originally posted by Nutmeg
I'm not quite a gunner. My GPA is somewhere around 3.3. i have the spreadsheet because I have 240 semester units from what will soon be 8 years. I made the spreadsheet to see what kinds of improvements would be necessary to get to Berkeley from JC, and I had to go from a 3.0 to a 3.6. Now I use the spreadsheet to keep track of everything, as it took careful planning to finish the requirements for the MCB BA and the ChemE BS and still get out of Berkeley within three years.

Nutmeg you are crazy-- 240 hours! You seem to have clawed your way to the top though -- you have my respect.

 

[trauma_junky]

It's all a f'n crap shoot. It's all about who intially gets their hands on your application. Your primary screener holds your career in his hands. You could get a hard core, I went to Harvard PhD that is really a number *****, or you could get a physcian that sees you have the intellectual capacity and your EC's show your dedication. IT is the most subjective, unscientific, BS you'll ever deal with in your life. Did I mention it is expensive as well. MCAT & GPA are great primary screeners for schools like TTU and UTH, where their primary screener is a computer that fits your scores into a computer and decides to keep you or dump you.

Originally posted by That Girl Farah
I have a below average MCAT and a below average GPA relative to pretty much every Texas medical school but I got into one, so who knows what's important.

After going through this whole interview process and talking to admissions staff people and deans (here in TX anyways), I've really come away believing that the numbers aren't everything. Yea, they count, but if they were everything, why the hell would they bother with interviews?

To me, it's always gonna be a mystery how people get into med school and how some don't. A guy I know has a 35 MCAT and a 4.0 and didn't match with any TX schools. I've got a 3.5 and a 27 and I did. What the hell's going on?! Not that I'm complaining... but just goes to show, numbers don't add up to a lot in some cases.

 

[arsenalgunner]

In the end, it is a crap-shoot, but there are some general rules you can follow. Here's the tried & true PR formula:

(GPA * 10) + MCAT = ?

If this number is 67 or greater you will be attending med school somewhere within the continental US. If not, start packing suntan lotion.

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

I think MCAT is weighted more heavily than GPA and I think there is a VERY good reason for this. It's not really fair to compare a 3.5 earned at MIT to a 3.5 earned at Howard University (according to the Boalt Hall grade inflation survey...Howard is one of the most grade inflated schools in the nation). The MIT student had to compete with a brighter, more motivated group of students so the curves at MIT had to be more harsh...as a result, it would have been much harder to earn the 3.5 at MIT than the 3.5 at Howard.

I agree...it sort of sucks that 3+ years of undergrad work can be flushed down the toilet by a poor performance on 1 exam. But there has to be an objective way to gauge the knowledge and aptitude of applicants from Princeton and applicants from California State University-Chico.

 

[G_Eagle]

Of course, you will be taking tests your whole life. All of the USMLE Steps, boards, etc. It is something that you have to train to become better. Otherwise, screwing them up can be just as devestating to your career. The tests never stop....the nice thing is that eventually the accomplishments in your career speak louder...

 

[ForensicPath]

Originally posted by arsenalgunner
In the end, it is a crap-shoot, but there are some general rules you can follow. Here's the tried & true PR formula:

(GPA * 10) + MCAT = ?

If this number is 67 or greater you will be attending med school somewhere within the continental US. If not, start packing suntan lotion.

I have a 64 and an acceptance

 

[LoneCoyote]

I got into a UC with a 29 MCAT. I think having a high GPA really helped me. The UC's are known for looking at the "whole person" though so I am sure that helped too. I also got interviewed and waitlisted (not rejected) at Stanford where I should never have had a shot with my MCAT score. So it probably depends on the school in terms of which is more important.

 

[Cerberus]

Originally posted by arsenalgunner
In the end, it is a crap-shoot, but there are some general rules you can follow. Here's the tried & true PR formula:

(GPA * 10) + MCAT = ?

If this number is 67 or greater you will be attending med school somewhere within the continental US. If not, start packing suntan lotion.

I disagree, the average GPA for medical school acceptances is around a 3.5 last I check and the average mcat is a 30. Thus
3.5*10+30 = 65, which means the average applicant would get in.

Of course we all know formulas cannot be used to say definitively whether you will be accepted anyway. Though statistically, your chances with a 3.7 and a 35 are much higher than someone with a 2.8 and 29.


Personally I think of the MCAT as "8 hour salvation". Its like the big final exam in that class were you are teetering on the edge, it can definitely make you or break you.

 

[R_C_Hutchinson]

Originally posted by CalBeE
Some of the Bio majors are actually really hard! My major at UCLA (Microbio, immunology, molecular genetics) has rumored to have an average GPA of somewhere below 3.0!

On an unrelated note, does anyone notice that law school admission focuses so much more on GPA and LSAT score? (Look at the average stats for top schools on US News) I think med schools are doing a lot better in terms of looking at the whole package. Let's just be grateful

good ol DB said MIMG was the lowest overall GPA major @ UCLA- average graduating GPA: 2.7- in general the average grade given out is a C+/B- so that's around a 2.5. considering the brutal nature of the major, lots of people drop it, hence the 2.7 graduating GPA.
I feel your pain, i'm MIMG too.