Honest question: is there a medical specialty with a worse job market?

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A med student asked me, "Which primary medical specialty has a worse job market than that of pathology?" I thought about it, and I don't know of any. I feel like I didn't sell him much on the merits of pathology.

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This is getting ridiculous. Sure the market isnt "great" but it hasnt been great since 1987.

But threads like this literally make it sound like most pathologists are employed in some salt mine somewhere. We are light years past histrionic at this point on the SDN Path forum..

Who remembers the days when the pharmacy student used to post on here? Her name was banana something or other? Girls used to come here and actually flirt! I actually went on a real date with someone on SDN once! And she was cute!!

Now we have been reduced to a sad collection of grumpy old men where every other thread is how broke we are and how unemployable pathologists have become..wth.

Path Forum when I joined SDN:
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Path Forum Now:
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Everyone gets a job. Most of them pay more than peds, IM, FM. Life style is way better.
 
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Only Nuclear Medicine is worse. Pathology is only good if you don't mind not picking where you want to live or are ok with making 175k at an academic job
 
Only Nuclear Medicine is worse. Pathology is only good if you don't mind not picking where you want to live or are ok with making 175k at an academic job

Is $US 175K considered a crappy salary for an AP consultant / attending in the US?

Currently, the Australian public 1st year AP consultant / attending pay is ~$AU 180K (~$US 127K).

I think to earn $US 175K in Australia in AP, one would have to be quite senior,
or a partner at a boutique private lab of which there aren't many of them, and they tend to specialize in Derm path or Urology...
 
Depends on what kind of candidate you are. Might stink for a poor candidate. Pretty good for a good candidate. Better than it was 5 years ago for sure. Maybe there are just fewer good candidates now. It's a pretty good gig, IMHO. Hard work but rewarding. Time away from the hospital is my time (unlike a lot of specialties). More flexible schedule.

Key is to find the right work environment. If you work with awful people or in a bad situation, your job will be worse.
 
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CDX2 I'm not sure you're getting your information from. A few years back an Auckland trainee went to Australia and got offered north of 350k Australian dollars (he refused to reveal his precise salary offer) as a newly minted pathologist. And he wasn't unique, traditionally NZ trainees would head to Australia once qualified due to the salary difference. Remember, at least 70% of pathologists in Australia work in the private sector, and the salaries in the private sector is much higher than public hospitals. The salary ceiling for senior anatomical pathologists in the private sector is not bad at all.
 
The ****tiest thing that was ever done to me in this job was, having worked as an attending at Community Hospital for several years, Big Academic Medical Center takes over and the Pathology chair from that hospital comes to speak to our department about the takeover, but does not say anything about status of my job. The next day I find my job advertised on Pathology Outlines. I now have to apply for my own job, but the bitch of a chairwoman never gives me the courtesy of an answer, just never replies to my application. This is how you are treated in Pathology. Your job is not stable. You can find yourself unemployed like some low level IT guy following a hostile takeover.
 
CDX2 I'm not sure you're getting your information from. A few years back an Auckland trainee went to Australia and got offered north of 350k Australian dollars (he refused to reveal his precise salary offer) as a newly minted pathologist. And he wasn't unique, traditionally NZ trainees would head to Australia once qualified due to the salary difference. Remember, at least 70% of pathologists in Australia work in the private sector, and the salaries in the private sector is much higher than public hospitals. The salary ceiling for senior anatomical pathologists in the private sector is not bad at all.

$US 175K is currently $AU 249K.

One of the current 1st year consultants at the private lab I'm in said they're earning around $AU 180-200K, and they're working full-time. This is slightly higher than the current 1st year consultant pay in public hospitals in Victoria / New South Wales, but they need to meet arbitrary billing targets (which they can't explicitly specify to me) in addition to attempting to get specimen referrals to maintain their workload (otherwise the lab is seen as "unprofitable" and could get shut down)...

Is that Auckland trainee working in Western Australia? I know they pay more there than the other states coz of the previous mining boom, but the mining boom is now over. I honestly think he'd be an exception, and that there's more to the story as to how he got offered more than $AU 350K.

He might be extremely talented (?Derm path, ?molecular), but I suspect he also managed to negotiate $AU 350K+ in exchange for meeting an extremely high Medicare billing target +/- on-call duties.

Given that a single GI / skin punch biopsy bills Medicare for $97.15, he'd need to report ~3600 biopsies / year just to cover his salary alone.

Obviously a private company would never permit that as they also need to cover the cost of lab equipment and other lab staff, plus they wanna make a profit.

Hypothetically at best he'd negotiate a ***generous*** 33% cut of the Medicare billings, in which he'd need to report ~10,800 biopsies / year, or ~46 biopsies for every working day.

And I'm not aware of any 1st year consultants who purely report on biopsies all year round, unless they were perhaps working in a niche area or boutique lab.

There are other specimens that bill more than $97.15 (tumour mastectomy with IHC = $541.35), but they often involve a lot more blocks (easily 15+ blocks), and from observations the consultants spend much more time analyzing / reporting them compared to the financially equivalent number of biopsies, so it's less efficient to achieve their billing targets.

And with the current oversupply, the private companies can technically get away with offering lower salaries to new consultants compared to years before, so the discrepancy between public and private won't be as extreme compared to the past. Supply vs demand...:grumpy:
 
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Given that a single GI / skin punch biopsy bills Medicare for $97.15, he'd need to report ~3600 biopsies / year just to cover his salary alone.

3600 biopsies in gi/derm is not that much
 
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Interesting , Australia is has oversupply like the US. Keep hearing there is world wide shortage of pathologists.
 
3600 biopsies in gi/derm is not that much

Yeah but ~3600 biopsies / year only covers the consultant's salary,
nobody in the private sector can get away with just billing their salary.

The private company would expect them to report much more than that to help cover the costs of lab operations and other lab staff,
in addition to generating a company "profit".

Best case scenario for the consultant would be like a ~33% cut of Medicare billings, which means ~10,800 biopsies / year.
 
Interesting , Australia is has oversupply like the US. Keep hearing there is world wide shortage of pathologists.

I think Switzerland doesn't have an AP oversupply. I read somewhere they only let in 8 AP trainees / year for the whole country?!

That's less than 1 AP trainee / canton...

And they wouldn't let an IMG in unless they could somehow provide a service that couldn't be done by a local Swiss person.
 
From an outsider’s limited perspective, pathology has suffered from two primary tragedies: overtraining and corporatization.

Of course this outsider sees the very same thing happening in his own specialty, has been speaking against it for over 25 years now, and is exceptionally frustrated at all of the deaf ears and heads in the sand encountered.

Then there are those who know but obfuscate, profiteering by selling out their colleagues’ futures. Those men need to be sent to House Bolton for their ways....
 
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Anyone get careermd emails about job fairs despite there being no Pathology jobs at these career fairs?
 
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Anyone get careermd emails about job fairs despite there being no Pathology jobs at these career fairs?


Can you cut and paste this email? thanks!
 
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