Hopkins Question

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Sapphire1416

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Hey guys,

I just got the call from Dean White yesterday in the afternoon..I'm psyched but I'm curious as to what the grading system is like at JHU...

I don't care to go to a school thats strict grading...

anyone know?
 
Congratulations on your acceptance to Hopkins!! Hopkins is a fantastic place, and there's no place quite like it.

The entire grading scheme was changed last spring (partly in response to applicant feedback) to honors/high pass/pass/fail for all four years of medical school. This is essentially a pass/fail system, since most students will get a pass in any given course (for example, ~90% of students taking the medicine rotation get a pass). The idea is that a pass is an excellent grade, and that all Hopkins students are capable of doing very well. I think you'll find that Hopkins students are not obsessed with grades (after all, everyone matches very well); in fact, grades aren't even released to us unless we go to the registrar's office and fill out a form to request them. The idea is to learn as much as you can - grades don't/won't matter, and the dean will find you if you're in trouble academically.

Please don't hesitate to e-mail me ([email protected]) if you have any questions about Hopkins. This place is really spectacular.

Congrats again!

doepug
MS III, Johns Hopkins
 
they just switched from the letter grade system this year to a high honors, honors, pass, and fail....i think thats how it is broken down.
and congrads about the acceptance! :clap: :clap: woots!😀
 
Originally posted by Sapphire1416
Hey guys,

I just got the call from Dean White yesterday in the afternoon..I'm psyched but I'm curious as to what the grading system is like at JHU...

I don't care to go to a school thats strict grading...

anyone know?

Congrats Sapphire!!

Haha, it's actually a funny story when he called me, because my mom gave him my cell phone number without me expecting it. So I answered the phone, "Yo. Sup?"
 
How many hours per day do you tend to study?

I'm still hoping for a JHU acceptance. Praying and praying! 🙂

What else can you tell us about the school?
Do you spend time doing community service?
How much time do you have for fun?
How are years 3 and 4?
What's the stress level compared to premed?
are profs accessible?
how is housing?
do you feel safe?

That's a lot of questions. Sorry. 😕 It would be great to hear more about your experience.
Thanks😍
 
Originally posted by Premed2003
How many hours per day do you tend to study?

Not as many as you would think. I don't study every day unless there's an exam coming up. But then, I think I learn in unusual ways.

I'm still hoping for a JHU acceptance. Praying and praying! 🙂

Good luck!

What else can you tell us about the school?

It's incredible. I wouldn't go anywhere else. I'd be happy to answer more specific questions, if you have them.

Do you spend time doing community service?

My girlfriend and I coach a swimming team for the Special Olympics. I did a lot of service in college; not so much in med school. But my class is extraordinarily service oriented... check out one of the service assn websites: www.hopkinsmedicine.org/interaction

How much time do you have for fun?

Plenty.

How are years 3 and 4?

Relatively easygoing. We schedule our own rotations, so I started with a few electives, and I'll be doing Ob/Gyn dead last. You work as hard as you want, but most people end up having a pretty sweet schedule unless they're on Surgery or Medicine. I have December off, and I'm taking 6 months off during 4th year. Cool, eh?

What's the stress level compared to premed?

Far, far, far, far less. There's a little stress associated with Step 1, but that's going to be true at any school. Everyone does well and lands a great residency, therefore, there really isn't much stress. I just told someone yesterday that a relaxed, easy-going attitude is the best thing a med student can have.

are profs accessible?

Yes! They outnumber us considerably... so they're always excited to work with students. Plenty of profs would do cartwheels to have students work with them in the OR/lab/clinical setting.

how is housing?

Reed Hall is a cheap option... about half of the first years live there. Baltimore has plenty of nice, inexpensive apartments, so most people live off-campus.

do you feel safe?

Yes. There's quite a security presence at the hospital. Even so, most people in East Baltimore respect the white coat and Hopkins badge, since we're known for patching people up who end up on the losing end of knife/gun fights. As long as you keep your wits about you, I don't think Baltimore is any more dangerous than any other urban center.

That's a lot of questions. Sorry.

No problem - hope this helps!

doepug
 
Originally posted by Neuronix
honors/high pass/pass/fail = grading. What's the difference between A/B/C/D? Especially in the minds of residency directors?

The rationale for changing the grading scheme is actually quite complex; there were a number of issues involved, and not everyone is convinced that it was the right move.

As far as residencies are concerned, Hopkins is emphasizing that a "pass" is an outstanding grade. The school figures that students will still land awesome residencies when most students earn a "pass" in a course. Therefore, the people at the bottom of the class (who formerly earned a C) are brought up to the level of everyone else in the eyes of residency directors. Everyone wins. Rest assured, however, that the standards for passing are high.

I don't think that the H/HP/P/F system is truly "grading," since the chances of getting honors in medicine are less than 1%.

Cheers,
doepug
 
You're probably right about all of that doepug. While I still look at it as a PC grading system, it's still Hopkins and residencies aren't going to be hard to get for Hopkins grads. I'm just a bit upset with Hopkins because my MSTP app turned into a MSTP-only app. Only in very rare cases will your MSTP application be considered for MD-only acceptance, unlike most of the other schools in the nation.
 
Thanks doepeg!:clap:

Do you have friends at other top schools? How would you compare your Hopkins experience to those schools?

What is the worst thing about Hopkins?
What is the best thing?
Were you deciding between Hopkins and other schools, and why did you choose Hopkins?
How often are your exams?
How difficult are the exams?
Hopkins has long been known for its stress? Do you feel that Hopkins has changed to make the school more kind to med students?
If you could change 1 thing about Hopkins, what would it be?
When/How long are your summer vacations, and what do people generally do?

Thanks doepeg. You're so kind to answer all my questions😍
 
Not to overwork doepug, but I have been accepted too. One of the things I was worried about most is the curriculum - I actually can't figure out from anything I've heard or read whether it is mostly lecture or mostly small-group/PBL type stuff? Does anyone know?
 
How many hours are you in class each day during years 1 and 2?
And then years 3 and 4, how many hours in the hospital, et al

How did you manage a 6 month vacation for year 4? Does everyone do that?

Does going to hopkins med help to get a hopkins residency?
 
Yikes! Lots of questions... I'm flattered. Hope this is helpful...

Originally posted by Premed2003
Do you have friends at other top schools? How would you compare your Hopkins experience to those schools?

There are plenty of great medical schools that all attract great students, and with a few exceptions (Yale, Duke), all these schools have similar curricula. There are a few things, however, that sets Hopkins apart:

1. As a quaternary care center, Hopkins gets referrals every day from academic medical centers (i.e. Georgetown, GW, Penn State). When a patient presents a true diagnostic dilemma, requires unusual treatment, or needs expertise in a truly subspecialized area, they're sent to Hopkins.

For example, Kaiser Permanente found that it's cheaper for them to fly their customers with pancreatic cancer to Hopkins for a Whipple (complex surgical procedure), since it costs them less money and outcomes are better than if patients are treated in California. That means that even though Hopkins is in Maryland, we're getting cancer patients transferred to us from UCSF.

As a student, you'll see a set of patients unmatched at any other institution. Not only are the zebras there, but Hopkins draws half of its patients from Maryland, so you'll have plenty of chances to treat common ailments (MI, CHF, COPD, etc).

2. At Hopkins, students schedule their own clinical rotations. This is key. We're not required to take rotations in any specified order, and we can take electives before finishing our basic clerkships. This way, if you have a specific interest (as I do in Radiology), you can build your schedule such that you can explore your interests and refine your career goals prior to match day. Because of this, Hopkins has one of the lowest rates of "residency switching" in the country; that is, residents from Hopkins are most likely to stay in their field.

3. Everyone at Hopkins loves medical students. As a medical student, you're a scarce resource of enthusiasm and brainpower. Attendings love to have students work with them. Administrators take student feedback very seriously and routinely make policy changes (e.g. curriculum, grading, facilities) to reflect what students want.

I think these are a few of the reasons why Hopkins stands out among medical schools... there are other reasons, but I already feel like I'm standing on a soapbox.

What is the worst thing about Hopkins?

Hopkins is very decentralized; it's a mammoth of an institution (30,000 employees at the main hospital alone), meaning that there's an office and a committee for everything. Power is really divided up, and this makes it difficult to implement policy changes across the whole institution.

What is the best thing?

Hopkins medical students have a set of experiences that are unrivaled by any other medical school.

Were you deciding between Hopkins and other schools, and why did you choose Hopkins?

I was floored by the place. It's an awesome place to learn how to be a doctor, and all the students I met really loved it here.

How often are your exams?

During first year, they're pretty frequent (every ~3 weeks) due to the block scheduling. The good news is that they're not cumulative.

During second year, they come about once/month, and during the clinical years, there's usually a shelf exam (for basic clerkships) at the end of a required rotation.

How difficult are the exams?

They're reasonable. Overall, most averages are in the 70-80% range.

Hopkins has long been known for its stress? Do you feel that Hopkins has changed to make the school more kind to med students?

I think this is an unfortunate stereotype that got tagged onto the medical school. I think whatever stress/competition you may have heard of was originally intended for the undergraduate campus.

I would, in fact, contend that Hopkins is less stressful than other schools. Students are not competitive, and there's no doubt that everyone will match well in their field of choice (unlike many, many other schools). For example, someone who graduates last in the class can still match into a great neurosurgery program.

If you could change 1 thing about Hopkins, what would it be?

I'd make it so that 1st and 2nd year students can park for free on campus during the day. Preclinical students currently have to park in satellite lots and take a shuttle bus. Parking at the hospital is free after 4:00 and on weekends, though.

When/How long are your summer vacations, and what do people generally do?

The only formally defined summer vacation is after first year. During that time, people do all sorts of things. Our dean offers students cash to stay on campus and do research (which is what I did), but others do service projects (e.g. Soros and Schweitzer fellowships), and travel (the dean funds a medical mission trip to South America). Some people just camp out on a beach all summer. Sometimes, I think they're the smart ones.

Our "third year" begins in April of year two, so from that point forward, students define their own vacations. In 2002, I chose to do a rotation (pediatrics) in June/July and I took August off for research and travel.

Thanks doepug. You're so kind to answer all my questions

You're very welcome. Keep posting questions as you think of them!

Cheers,
doepug
 
Originally posted by Rapid Decomposition
Not to overwork doepug, but I have been accepted too. One of the things I was worried about most is the curriculum - I actually can't figure out from anything I've heard or read whether it is mostly lecture or mostly small-group/PBL type stuff? Does anyone know?

Congrats, Rapid! I hope you'll come back to visit before making your decision.

Hopkins has about a 60/40 mix of lecture/small group sessions during year one. In year two, the 60/40 ratio still applies, but the small groups are a mix of pathology lab and pathophysiology discussion sessions. During all years, there are other courses that have small group sessions (Physician & Society, Intro to Clinical Medicine, Clinical Skills, etc).

The first year curriculum is set up in blocks. Second year is longitudinal (path/pathophys/pharm all taught at the same time), with about one organ system/month. For example, you might spend January discussing the heart, and all the pathology/pharmacology that applies to it. The second year is over at spring break.

Again, congratulations! Please PM/e-mail me if you have other questions.

-doepug
 
Originally posted by Premed2003
How many hours are you in class each day during years 1 and 2?

In year one, classes run from 8 to 1. In that time, there's usually about 3 hours of lecture. There are also clinical correlations on Friday afternoons... these aren't "graded" or anything, but they're a great chance for first year students to see why they're learning what they're learning, and they're generally well-attended.

In year two, lectures/labs run from 8 to 1. On one afternoon is the Physician & Society course, and on another afternoon is a Clinical Skills course. Clinical Skills takes up two afternoons after winter break. Most students find that the afternoons are fun; clinical skills is a blast.

And then years 3 and 4, how many hours in the hospital, et al

This varies greatly from rotation to rotation. On many electives, you'll work from 8-4. Some basic clerkships work this way too. Medicine and Surgery typically have the longest hours, and Ob/Gyn is a close third. These hours will vary, based on the service you're on and based on your team. I lucked out and typically worked from 7-5 on medicine, with call q4 (not overnight). I'm taking surgery after winter break, but rumor has it that those hours are a little worse, since surgeons like to start rounding early in the morning. In surgery, call is q6 (overnight).

How did you manage a 6 month vacation for year 4? Does everyone do that?

Most people are done with their rotations by the fall/winter of year 4. This provides a great break for going to residency interviews. The upshot of this is that most 4th year students can take fun electives in the spring, travel, or take Step 2.

Does going to hopkins med help to get a hopkins residency?

Absolutely, positively, without a doubt, yes. As a med student, you'll get to know the faculty, residents and program director. About half of any class chooses to stay here. Many people end up staying on as faculty, which is why Hopkins attendings are so happy to work with Hopkins medical students. I guess it imparts a certain nostalgia.

Hope this helps,
doepug
 
You are wonderful for answering all of these questions that have been posted.

I've been accepted to Hopkins, and I also have some questions if you have the time.

1) How are the anatomy labs? At some of the schools that I've visited, students say they smell a lot. At other schools, the labs are newer and the students say that there is no smell. One school in particular is building a facility with a vent directly over the body so that there is absolutely no smell. How do your labs compare?

2) How many students are in the small group sections? How many hours per week are you in these small classes? Are they set up as PBL sessions where you are given information about a patient and have to determine the disease and treatment?

3) How many hours per week are you in the lecture classes?

4) How many hours per week are you in lab?

5) Do students do research (clinical or lab) during the academic year? Is there ample time for this?

6) Do you have any friends at Stanford, and if so, how would you compare your experience with theirs?

7) Are students involved in other nonacademic activities during the year, such as athletics or other fun endeavors?

8) How is the support/mentoring system?

9) Some schools that I've visited record the lectures and put them on the web so that students can refer to them when studying, etc. Does Hopkins do this as well?

10) Do people generally study in groups, or individually?

11) Is there flexibility in the curriculum? Are there any opportunities for exploring interdisciplinary topics such as medical humanities? Some schools offer electives in other areas. Do students at Hopkins take any medical humanities-related courses? Or bioethics or health policy courses?

I really appreciate all of the time that you've already spent answering everyone's questions. If you have time, I would greatly appreciate any further info.

Thank you very much! 🙂
 
Originally posted by 2003Applicant
You are wonderful for answering all of these questions that have been posted. I've been accepted to Hopkins, and I also have some questions if you have the time.

It's my pleasure. Besides, I can't spend all of my day studying for the boards. I just hope you'll make an informed decision when you choose a medical school. Congratulations on your acceptance! Like I've said before, you should come to visit again - in April at the revisit weekend if not sooner. You owe it to yourself to check out the school again.


1) How are the anatomy labs? At some of the schools that I've visited, students say they smell a lot. At other schools, the labs are newer and the students say that there is no smell. One school in particular is building a facility with a vent directly over the body so that there is absolutely no smell. How do your labs compare?


It's not pleasant, but it's not terrible either. Dr. Teaford, the course director, reminds us that the ventilation system for the anatomy labs is extraordinarily strong, and the housekeeping staff are constantly in there to clean the place up. Students get lockers near the lab - it's highly recommended that you have scrubs for lab only and regular clothes to wear everyplace else. It's not an intense smell, but it's not especially pleasant, and everyone will recognize it if you wear your scrubs to the cafeteria (a faux pas). Oddly enough, several of my classmates found that the smell of phenol (it's not formaldehyde) made them hungry. Go figure.

For anatomy, you'll choose your own groups, with four students to a cadaver. In my first year, we began anatomy around Halloween and were done by Christmas. The whole course is 7 1/2 weeks; it's more manageable than you think.


2) How many students are in the small group sections? How many hours per week are you in these small classes? Are they set up as PBL sessions where you are given information about a patient and have to determine the disease and treatment?


Small group sections are typically 15-20 people, with 1-2 faculty. You'll stick with your small group all year long, so you'll know these people well. During first year, an average day would have 3 hours of lecture and 2 hours of small group. Typically one hour/week is spent as a journal club, where you'll dissect some current scientific literature that's relevant to the topic you're studying. This actually comes in quite handy. The format for the majority of the small groups is somewhat variable; sometimes we'd work through problem sets, sometimes we'd discuss difficult concepts, and sometimes we'd work through a clinical case. Generally these cases involve coming up with a diagnosis; with no background in pharmacology or surgical techniques, first year students are usually ill-equipped to determine treatment regimens.

Rest assured, you'll see plenty of clinical cases in real and mock settings when you're on the wards.

During second year, the setup is similar; typically 2 hours of lab/small group (~18 people). Usually one hour is pathology lab (micro +/- gross) with a pathologist, then one hour of pathophysiology discussion, usually working through clinical cases with a faculty member.

3) How many hours per week are you in the lecture classes?

About 3 hours/day x 5 days/week = 15 hours.


4) How many hours per week are you in lab?


In first year, the only substantial lab time you'll have will be for anatomy (replaces 98% of small group time), neuroanatomy, and histology. For neuroanatomy and histology, small group time is synonymous with lab time.

In the second year, lab time is synonymous with the pathology small group session.


5) Do students do research (clinical or lab) during the academic year? Is there ample time for this?


During the first year, students have the afternoon off, which presents a phenomenal opportunity for research time. I managed to squeeze in some clinical research during the second year, but I don't recommend this unless you have a red-hot project; the second year schedule is relatively busy.

During clinical years, students are strongly encouraged to take research electives (for as much time as you like) in whatever field(s) you're interested in.


6) Do you have any friends at Stanford, and if so, how would you compare your experience with theirs?


I know people at Stanford who are happy. Stanford has a great medical school that prepares excellent doctors. However, I don't think Stanford can come anywhere close to Hopkins when it comes to clinical experiences for medical students. I honestly believe that the clinical exposure here is unmatched anywhere.


7) Are students involved in other nonacademic activities during the year, such as athletics or other fun endeavors?


Absolutely! I mentioned the interaction website in an earlier post (http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/interaction); this lists a number of extracurricular activities. At the medical school, there's also a newly renovated gym (Cooley) that has all kinds of intramural sports. Med students, housestaff, grad students, and attendings alike compete in intramurals, which makes for some really fun games.


8) How is the support/mentoring system?


Dean Herlong is outstanding. He's very wise and has a great deal of experience in advising students. He's also a great listener (part of being a great clinician) who will always take you seriously. If you have specific interests (for example, if you want to have an orthopedic surgeon as a mentor), he'll point you to someone appropriate.

There's also a big sib/little sib program, which is as involved as you want it to be. Traditionally, big sibs (2nd years) give the little sibs all their old exams and are always open for questions and such, but if you just want the take the exams and never see them again, you can do that too.


9) Some schools that I've visited record the lectures and put them on the web so that students can refer to them when studying, etc. Does Hopkins do this as well?


I remember hearing from Incendiary (a first year) that lectures are now available as realplayer movies through a system called blackboard. In addition, I think almost all lectures are now on powerpoint, and those files are available to students.

At the beginning of every course, you'll also get a complete copy of the lecture notes (provided by the profs), which includes all the figures, etc... as a consequence of this, many students end up buying exceedingly few books.


10) Do people generally study in groups, or individually?


Generally it's a mix of the two. I found that I got more out of group work if I'd prepared a little in advance. Most people have some kind of study group that meets from time to time, but the bulk of work is probably done individually. After all, we all have different ways of learning.


11) Is there flexibility in the curriculum? Are there any opportunities for exploring interdisciplinary topics such as medical humanities? Some schools offer electives in other areas. Do students at Hopkins take any medical humanities-related courses? Or bioethics or health policy courses?


At Hopkins, there is a required four-year course called Physician and Society that meets weekly. The PAS course covers all these issues... medical history, literature, ethics, law, economics, policy, etc... it's a great opportunity to come up for air after studying other subjects. My small group just read the book "Complications" by Atul Gawande; I highly recommend it to anyone who is training to be a physician.


I really appreciate all of the time that you've already spent answering everyone's questions. If you have time, I would greatly appreciate any further info.

Thank you very much! 🙂


I'm happy to do whatever I can to help you out. Keep the questions coming! I'll have time to answer them until January 13. 🙂

Cheers,
doepug
 
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