horrible incident- croc kills medical school prof.

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usrael

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My dad forwarded this to me last night. I'm leaving for Africa in a month with a delegation, and my parents are nervous enough about AIDS, TB, Malaria.
This is just horrible!
I extend my condolences to the Univ. of Washington.


SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_Professor_Crocodile.html

Medical school professor killed by croc

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

SEATTLE -- A University of Washington medical professor who moved to Botswana to alleviate a doctor shortage was killed when a crocodile dragged him from a canoe, his family and colleagues said.

Dr. Richard K. Root, 68, was on a wildlife tour Sunday of the Limpopo River after visiting a clinic in the area.

He was in a lead canoe with tour guides when the crocodile thrust from the water, grabbed him and pulled him under, said Steve Gluckman, medical director of the Botswana program. He was not seen again.

The tour guides were wary of hippos, but there had been no reports of crocodile attacks in the area, Gluckman said.

Root was a nationally known expert in infectious disease and the former chief of medicine at Seattle's Harborview Medical Center.

He had moved to the southern African nation only this month to train health care workers to deal with AIDS.
 
usrael said:
My dad forwarded this to me last night. I'm leaving for Africa in a month with a delegation, and my parents are nervous enough about AIDS, TB, Malaria.
This is just horrible!
I extend my condolences to the Univ. of Washington.


SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_Professor_Crocodile.html

Medical school professor killed by croc

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

SEATTLE -- A University of Washington medical professor who moved to Botswana to alleviate a doctor shortage was killed when a crocodile dragged him from a canoe, his family and colleagues said.

Dr. Richard K. Root, 68, was on a wildlife tour Sunday of the Limpopo River after visiting a clinic in the area.

He was in a lead canoe with tour guides when the crocodile thrust from the water, grabbed him and pulled him under, said Steve Gluckman, medical director of the Botswana program. He was not seen again.

The tour guides were wary of hippos, but there had been no reports of crocodile attacks in the area, Gluckman said.

Root was a nationally known expert in infectious disease and the former chief of medicine at Seattle's Harborview Medical Center.

He had moved to the southern African nation only this month to train health care workers to deal with AIDS.

I am terribly sorry to read this. It seems that this man had some really good intentions going to Africa. This is a tradgedy. 🙁
 
pick your poison when it comes to africa, die at the hands of animals, disease, or civil warfare
 
Shredder said:
pick your poison when it comes to africa, die at the hands of animals, disease, or civil warfare

I know you are not one of those people who have the inclination to help people in other countries - but why bash someone for trying to do so. Look, here's a good medical school professor that has just died and you're trying to poke fun at him. 👎

For once place aside your political arguments and not make fun of someone for dying.

Shredder, suppose I went off to do missionary work in some third world country. Let say I go to El Salvador in Latin America and work on building a better health care system over there. I do this for several years and one day I run out of luck and get killed by rebels.

Shredder I ask you to respond to this: Are you going to make fun of my death? A death I knew, as a missionary, was fully well and possible in happening.

I look forward to seeing your response to this. I already think I know how you are going to respond and earnestly hope that you do not write it.

That said, there's a really good book that I you might like by Tracey Kidder called Mountains Beyond Mountains. He primarily writes military books. He isn't one of those hippie liberal people who go around screaming for us to save the world - but takes a very careful look at some third world nations and then tries to formulate realistic and also very meaningful things that can be done to signifigantly help people abroad.
 
I didn't think he was making fun of this unfortunate death, but rather stating that going to Africa on missions like this is pretty dangerous.
 
Labslave said:
I didn't think he was making fun of this unfortunate death, but rather stating that going to Africa on missions like this is pretty dangerous.
My interpretation as well.
 
Labslave said:
I didn't think he was making fun of this unfortunate death, but rather stating that going to Africa on missions like this is pretty dangerous.

My interpertation as well.
 
Labslave said:
I didn't think he was making fun of this unfortunate death, but rather stating that going to Africa on missions like this is pretty dangerous.

Agreed.
 
Labslave said:
I didn't think he was making fun of this unfortunate death, but rather stating that going to Africa on missions like this is pretty dangerous.

I don't think he was making fun of the death either. Pretty horrible and unfortunate way to go.
But certainly even if Shredder was being crass, he wouldn't have been the first to see comedy in the notion of one's being eaten by a crocodile. See eg. the transcript from a Monty Python sketch: http://www.skepticfiles.org/en001/croc.htm
 
that's awful, but on the bright side, he lead a good life and it was a hell of a way to end it. almost storybook. and dare i say it, funny in a royal tennenbaums-ish way.
 
i shouldve been more clear. yes it was crass but people do accept risks when going on adventures like this. its like investing. although arguably his motives were more selfless. the problem i have is that im not convincd that quests like this make a big difference in the situation in africa and other parts of the world. im just not seeing a lot of results. granted im far away and isolated in cozy america, but statistics and news paint grim pictures of the developing world, regardless of how many premeds or docs make trips there. in fact i think its tragic that such a valuable life was lost. im a little upset that such a valuable human chose to put himself in such a position. its a loss for the world. i guess it was a freak accident...but most purportedly "freak" accidents are avoidable.

i dont know, i dont want to go off on tangents, but basically im a little perturbed at this guy for going and getting himself finished. a lot of resources went into him and are now gone. fair enough, or no? should we really encourage our best and brightest to go into the riskiest parts of the world? isnt it more pragmatic to just send peons? or maybe its not, i just like posing questions to think about or discuss

i dont think we should leave the undeveloped world to rot in hell, but we should reevaluate some of our current strategies and their efficacy, in medicine and, maybe more importantly, in economic growth which so heavily affects the status of medicine in countries
 
I guess it's good that he didn't teach at the University of Florida, the irony would probably kill me.
 
To some, there are more important and valuable things in life than pragmatism, investments or accumulating wealth.

Whether the change is big or not, some people want to give their best to the most needy without expecting anything/much in return.

no greater love has a man than to lay down his life for his friends
 
Shredder said:
i dont know, i dont want to go off on tangents, but basically im a little perturbed at this guy for going and getting himself finished. a lot of resources went into him and are now gone. fair enough, or no? should we really encourage our best and brightest to go into the riskiest parts of the world? isnt it more pragmatic to just send peons? or maybe its not, i just like posing questions to think about or discuss.

Dude, the guy was 68 years old. Exactly how much more of his life did he owe to you and the US society that you have the remotest reason to be perturbed? What would be an appropriate age for him to follow his own desires?
 
medhacker said:
no greater love has a man than to lay down his life for his friends

But he didn't lay it down for his friends, he was dinner for some hungry animal. I admire his courage and resolve to go work in Africa but in the end he was just one peg too low on the food chain.
 
i just think his talents could have been better applied elsewhere, somewhere less risky. his objective could have been fulfilled by a lesser person. i have professors who are nearly 68, theres plenty of life ahead of that. a healthy person should have no trouble reaching at least 80. i guess if the croc was truly a freak accident then it couldnt been helped. but if there was some inkling of risk beforehand then it shouldnt have happened. africa overall is a dangerous place. thats why we dont send george bush (political inclinations aside)--maybe i should just say thats why we dont send presidents, romping around in the middle of the congo
 
Shredder said:
i just think his talents could have been better applied elsewhere, somewhere less risky. his objective could have been fulfilled by a lesser person. i have professors who are nearly 68, theres plenty of life ahead of that. a healthy person should have no trouble reaching at least 80. i guess if the croc was truly a freak accident then it couldnt been helped. but if there was some inkling of risk beforehand then it shouldnt have happened. africa overall is a dangerous place

:laugh:

Shredder = Steven Colbert
 
AStudent said:
But he didn't lay it down for his friends, he was dinner for some hungry animal. I admire his courage and resolve to go work in Africa but in the end he was just one peg too low on the food chain.

And just why are you so certain the alligator was not his friend? 😕




ok after that "right back at ya", I mean no disrespect and I find it admirable when valuable individuals go out of their ways to help those on which they can not capitalize 👍
 
AStudent said:
:laugh:

Shredder = Steven Colbert
oh, i dont watch television, and i couldnt decipher the comparison based on his wikipedia article. but its not important
 
When I read that, I didn't know if I should laugh or cry....it's such a tragic death, yet being eaten by a croc.....yeah, definitely a bizarre way to end his life.
 
Shredder said:
i just think his talents could have been better applied elsewhere, somewhere less risky. his objective could have been fulfilled by a lesser person. i have professors who are nearly 68, theres plenty of life ahead of that. a healthy person should have no trouble reaching at least 80. i guess if the croc was truly a freak accident then it couldnt been helped. but if there was some inkling of risk beforehand then it shouldnt have happened. africa overall is a dangerous place. thats why we dont send george bush (political inclinations aside)--maybe i should just say thats why we dont send presidents, romping around in the middle of the congo

You keep saying "we don't send." Nobody "sent" him. He wanted to go and he went. It didn't involve you and it wasn't up to you. Are you seriously saying that "we" should have encroached on his freedom by preventing him?

And maybe this is crazy, but I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that the 68 year old renowned physican and med school professor had a slightly better idea of where his talents could be best utilized than the 21 year old premed. But that might just be me.
 
Shredder said:
i shouldve been more clear. yes it was crass but people do accept risks when going on adventures like this. its like investing. although arguably his motives were more selfless. the problem i have is that im not convincd that quests like this make a big difference in the situation in africa and other parts of the world. im just not seeing a lot of results. granted im far away and isolated in cozy america, but statistics and news paint grim pictures of the developing world, regardless of how many premeds or docs make trips there. in fact i think its tragic that such a valuable life was lost. im a little upset that such a valuable human chose to put himself in such a position. its a loss for the world. i guess it was a freak accident...but most purportedly "freak" accidents are avoidable.

i dont know, i dont want to go off on tangents, but basically im a little perturbed at this guy for going and getting himself finished. a lot of resources went into him and are now gone. fair enough, or no? should we really encourage our best and brightest to go into the riskiest parts of the world? isnt it more pragmatic to just send peons? or maybe its not, i just like posing questions to think about or discuss

i dont think we should leave the undeveloped world to rot in hell, but we should reevaluate some of our current strategies and their efficacy, in medicine and, maybe more importantly, in economic growth which so heavily affects the status of medicine in countries

doesn't make a big difference? what? to whom? you?

if you were from Botswana and his work helped increase awareness in a small community that you were a part of and helped reduce the incidence of HIV transmission there, potentially sparing yourself, friends and family from this awful disease my guess is that you wouldn't think the "difference" was so insignificant.

the news paints a grim picture of Africa and the developing world despite the efforts of health care professionals? do you think the picture wouldn't be extremely more grim if these individuals did not do the work they do?

"in fact i think its tragic that such a valuable life was lost. im a little upset that such a valuable human chose to put himself in such a position. its a loss for the world." you are upset with his decisions? certainly it's a loss for the world, but this man lost his life putting himself in a position in which he felt he would be MOST valuable to others. He sought out a situation in which he felt the need was greater. He was trying to be MORE valuable to OTHERS.

"a lot of resources went into him and are now gone. fair enough, or no? should we really encourage our best and brightest to go into the riskiest parts of the world?" No, we shouldn't. We should encourage them to use the intelligence and talents that makes them the best an brightest to ensure a sheltered and economically secure life for themselves and their families. If they can help some people out along the way, bonus! Hey, maybe they'll even directly or indirectly help out some people who are not as fortunate as they have been! Wouldn't that be something?

"i dont think we should leave the undeveloped world to rot in hell, but we should reevaluate some of our current strategies and their efficacy, in medicine and, maybe more importantly, in economic growth which so heavily affects the status of medicine in countries." the only comment in your response that doesn't strike me as ridiculous. Yes, we should think bigger picture. But where did you read that this man was running around tackling individuals moments away from engaging in unprotected sex or other behaviors by which transmission can occur? He was educating. He was training health care workers to combat this epidemic. Health care workers who could directly help thousands and indirectly many more by in turn teaching others. He may have been trying to establish regional networks aimed at preventing the spread of the disease. Besides, the thought that you would support national and international legislation and policies aimed at alleviating obstacles for economic growth in Africa is laughable. Give us all a break.
 
MollyMalone said:
And maybe this is crazy, but I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that the 68 year old renowned physican and med school professor had a slightly better idea of where his talents could be best utilized than the 21 year old premed. But that might just be me.

Come to think of it, people who go off to Africa and other places in need have probably done it before - chances are this guy was old school.

This dude has probably done missionary and service work before. Think about it, very few 68 year olds are going to say to themselves, "You know what, I think I'll go to Africa"

Rather it's more likely that he's been risking his neck and limb since he was young. There are a few of my friends at school who are like that. They'll go off to Ethiopia on a moments notice - and they ain't afraid of a horrible death.

Honestly I am admire them but I do think there is somthing a little bit foolish about them. I guess their parents had some pretty strange metaphase I and anaphase I 🙂
 
i don't know if he actually thought that being "eaten by wildlife" would be something problematic on his journey. maybe he just didn't forsee crocodiles as obstacles for his mission. i mean really, when i think of volunteering in a foreign third world country, the idea of being preyed on literally, doesn't cross my mind. rebels, miscommunication with citizens, getting lost or picked on by other people are things that i'd be prepared o face. but i'd probably even joke about running from lions on the plane ride there. having an incomplete idea of a medical mission in Africa paired with maybe having an inept guide could possibly lead to getting eaten.

poor guy tho, i hope it was quick and as painless as possible (i'm serious). 🙁
 
medhacker's signature said:
"Jesus was the first socialist, and Judas the first capitalist" - Hugo Chavez

O my G*d!. That's insanely funny. :laugh: Yeah I can definantly see why Chavez would say that Judas was a capitalist.

But I don't see how Chavez could make a strong case for Jesus being a socialist. I'll have to look into that. Chavez is using his propaganda machine again.
 
oh well, this threads full of liberals, im peacing out. all left wingers please put me on ignore, i should add this to my sig
 
oh yea... the ignore function. much better.
 
CatsandCradles said:
Come to think of it, people who go off to Africa and other places in need have probably done it before - chances are this guy was old school.

This dude has probably done missionary and service work before. Think about it, very few 68 year olds are going to say to themselves, "You know what, I think I'll go to Africa"

Rather it's more likely that he's been risking his neck and limb since he was young. There are a few of my friends at school who are like that. They'll go off to Ethiopia on a moments notice - and they ain't afraid of a horrible death.

Honestly I am admire them but I do think there is somthing a little bit foolish about them. I guess their parents had some pretty strange metaphase I and anaphase I 🙂

Actually, there are several organizations that enlist retirement age doctors to help out in third world countries. So lots of older US docs these days are doing this kind of end of career "giving back".
 
Shredder said:
i just think his talents could have been better applied elsewhere, somewhere less risky. his objective could have been fulfilled by a lesser person. i have professors who are nearly 68, theres plenty of life ahead of that. a healthy person should have no trouble reaching at least 80. i guess if the croc was truly a freak accident then it couldnt been helped. but if there was some inkling of risk beforehand then it shouldnt have happened. africa overall is a dangerous place. thats why we dont send george bush (political inclinations aside)--maybe i should just say thats why we dont send presidents, romping around in the middle of the congo

I have to laugh at this. The odds of getting attacked and killed by an crocodile in Africa are probably far less than those of getting mugged in NYC. You know what? Maybe the next time you want to go on vacation you should stop and think about it. After all, there is alot of risk in getting on a plane, getting in a taxi, leaving your house. You owe it to society to stay exactly where you are, because if you move, you may get hit by a car or something equally tragic. Then we'll all climb on top of your self-appointed pedestal and criticize you for living your life.
 
Shredder said:
i just think his talents could have been better applied elsewhere, somewhere less risky. his objective could have been fulfilled by a lesser person. i have professors who are nearly 68, theres plenty of life ahead of that. a healthy person should have no trouble reaching at least 80. i guess if the croc was truly a freak accident then it couldnt been helped. but if there was some inkling of risk beforehand then it shouldnt have happened. africa overall is a dangerous place. thats why we dont send george bush (political inclinations aside)--maybe i should just say thats why we dont send presidents, romping around in the middle of the congo

You amaze me. Absolutely amaze me. He was a doctor (and presumably a good one), for God's sake, and helping people who are in need is what physicians (at least the good ones) are supposed to do, remember?
 
Yeah, I read that article. He seemed like a great man. That's really sad.
 
CatsandCradles said:
O my G*d!. That's insanely funny. :laugh: Yeah I can definantly see why Chavez would say that Judas was a capitalist.

But I don't see how Chavez could make a strong case for Jesus being a socialist. I'll have to look into that. Chavez is using his propaganda machine again.

yeah sure, look into it, but it's not originally his, it has been said much before Chavez by social scientists, philosophers etc

I kind of had the same idea, independently, while reading certain passages of the gospel 🙂
 
First of all, to say pick your poison is a rather stupid comment. Following your logic, you could also pick your poison doing voluntary work in India, central America and south side Chicago (heck you could pick your poison whenever you tie your shoe). Does this mean people there should be left for dead? Africa is a continent (Shredder) and certain parts of the continent are associated with different risks. Like anywhere, certain parts are doing better than others.

If I recalled correctly, you said people like “the physician being discussed” really don't make a difference. Are you serious? From direct experience, I can tell you that people like him make tons of difference in the lives of people. I would have been dead had it not been for people like him. Try conducting a little more research before you make idiotic assertions.

A little home work for you- Go to Google and find out what percentage of total health care services in Africa, Central America and Asia happens to be voluntary work. I think you will be amazed.

People here are also sick of you making everything into liberal vs. conservative. Did it ever occur to you that many of those people who constantly go over to other continents are republicans? For someone who claims to be republican (questionably so), you surprise me.
 
It might be a bit of a stretch here, considering the dude got eaten by a crocodile on a tourist jaunt, but I think Shredder is just trying to rile up the old retail versus wholesale approach to healthcare in undeveloped/3rd world/underserved, etc areas and populations.

You could argue until you're blue in the face about who has a better hold on reality in this department-- people who strategize and economize about populations from afar, and people who get their hands dirty and actually go over there, fight off wild animals and help person by person, but the truth is, you need both types, and badly.
 
It is quite obvious from reading this thread that many here have never been to Africa and, thus are talking out of their A$$. Like infiniti said Africa is a Continent there are good parts and bad parts. Many of you seem to get your understanding of the continent from the discovery channel and, the news of war, starvation etc…I have personally spent some time in Ghana West Africa and, it is nothing like the images the Media presents of Africa… Maybe this is one of the better countries though…
 
SailCrazy said:
My interpretation as well.


Mine too.

I think the only place I really would trust going on medical missions to is my own country India because I know what to expect there and I know I'll have relatives nearby if I go there.
 
Note to self: stay out of canoes on rivers in Africa.
 
MD'05 said:
Note to self: stay out of canoes on rivers in Africa.


:laugh: :laugh:

This just reminded me of something.......

We were talking about doing a picnic at a nearby park and having some canoeing.

When we mentioned that there were alligators in the water, one of the people suddenly changed their mind in a heartbeat.
 
P.S. My opinion on the original matter.....

I don't think it made me want to cry, but it didn't make me want to laugh either. It kinda creeped me out more then anything else, because the vision of an alligator or crocodile or snake eating someone is just really really creepy. Sharks are kinda scary too.
 
Shredder said:
the problem i have is that im not convincd that quests like this make a big difference in the situation in africa and other parts of the world. im just not seeing a lot of results.
Hee-hee. Bring that up on the interview trail, Shred. Most of the medical schools HAVE medical schools because of huge amounts of money spent on causes that have not shown a lot of results. This is the nature of research. This is the nature of medicine.

I know it's fun to try to have everything fit a nice and neat worldview, but it doesn't work that way. Just because investing is interesting doesn't mean that you can apply it's logic to the rest of the world. Heck, it doesn't even apply all that well in investing.


Shredder said:
granted im far away and isolated in cozy america, but statistics and news paint grim pictures of the developing world, regardless of how many premeds or docs make trips there.
Read the papers, bud. It paints a pretty grim picture of here too.
 
AStudent said:
:laugh:

Shredder = Steven Colbert
Yeah, I get a kick too. But Steven Colbert does it on purpose....
 
notdeadyet said:
Yeah, I get a kick too. But Steven Colbert does it on purpose....

I think acting like a right wing douche just comes naturally to Shredder 👍
 
AStudent said:
:laugh:

Shredder = Steven Colbert

Only if his words infused with sarcasm. In which case, we're all like the book authors trying to defend our points seriously on a show aired by comedy central.
 
AStudent said:
I guess it's good that he didn't teach at the University of Florida, the irony would probably kill me.

I can't believe I had to read that twice to get it. But LOL :laugh: 👍
 
guide2.jpg


momma says alligators are so ornery because they have all those teeth and no toothbrush.
 
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