How and where to address my low gpa?

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glasseagle

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@gyngyn @Catalystik @gonnif

I have read various posts on here by you all that it is important to address in some way (as well as show evidence that the problem is fixed...which I believe I did with my post-bacc). Do you have any suggestions on how to go about my issue? I don't exactly know how to articulate that I grew up and stopped being lazy...
 
I feel like that MCAT will turn heads but honestly have no clue how it'll go over combined with the rest of your profile. Clearly you have a solid amount of volunteering and stuff, but without shadowing + inconsistent performance it may make you look uncommitted.

I could see you getting in somewhere but no idea what caliber (top vs bottom, md vs do)
 
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Your stellar MCAT score + your postbac performance will likely make up for your GPA deficit at most schools. I don't think you actually need to address your GPA (which is still within the acceptable range, if on the lower end) in your application, though I might be prepared to talk about it on interviews.

Based off of AMCAS Table 23, applicants in your stat group still had a 72% chance of success.

I would apply to schools that like higher MCAT scores and are willing to overlook lower GPAs (Keck, Hofstra, VTech) as well as all of your state schools, a solid group of mid-tiers, and a carefully selected group of top schools (perhaps 8-10). Avoid any schools that have a 90th percentile MCAT of below 39.

Also moving to WAMC
 
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Thanks I brought MSAR recently so I am definitely hoping to apply strategically and broadly.

@The Knife & Gun Club do you really think so? :( I was hoping my 1 year of solid post-bacc performance could help overlook my inconsistent performance in undergrad.
 
WedgeDawg said:
Your stellar MCAT score + your postbac performance will likely make up for your GPA deficit at most schools. I don't think you actually need to address your GPA (which is still within the acceptable range, if on the lower end) in your application, though I might be prepared to talk about it on interviews.

Based off of AMCAS Table 23, applicants in your stat group still had a 72% chance of success.

I would apply to schools that like higher MCAT scores and are willing to overlook lower GPAs (Keck, Hofstra, VTech) as well as all of your state schools, a solid group of mid-tiers, and a carefully selected group of top schools (perhaps 8-10). Avoid any schools that have a 90th percentile MCAT of below 39.

Also moving to WAMC
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I was hoping to get more general advice about situation and how and where to address my low gpa. When I put a school list together I was hoping to post in WAMC. Would it be ok to keep it in the general premed forum? No problem if you think it belongs better in WAMC.
 
glasseagle said:
I was hoping to get more general advice about situation and how and where to address my low gpa. When I put a school list together I was hoping to post in WAMC. Would it be ok to keep it in the general premed forum? No problem if you think it belongs better in WAMC.
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I would probably recommend just transitioning this thread to your school list thread when that time comes, because it should probably be soon anyway (given that the cycle starts in a couple weeks), but if you really want to move it back, I'll move it back.
 
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WedgeDawg said:
I would probably recommend just transitioning this thread to your school list thread when that time comes, because it should probably be soon anyway (given that the cycle starts in a couple weeks), but if you really want to move it back, I'll move it back.
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I would really appreciate it! I was using the search function on general advice for people in my situation and I have seen in particular @gyngyn (would really appreciate input from you since you are faculty at a CA school! though I know I will probably have to leave and there is a very small chance of me staying...) recommend that one would get better results if they included the reason for "dissonance." If one doesn't say then adcoms are left to speculate and I don't want them to think I had substance abuse issues or anything like that. I legit was just very lazy and my grades were not my first priority in undergrad. But then again I don't know how well that will go over with medical schools.
 
Your GPA really isn't all that low: your within 1 SD of MD matriculants. all things considered from what you've listed youll be ok. Let your trend and MCAT score address concerns about academics not specifically talking about it in your essays. Reasons for dissonance aren't nearly as important as showing you are behind the issues causing them which is shown through production acacdemically with recent grade trend and MCAT score. If anything addressing them can cause extra focus on them and extra attention to the negative part of your app. You want to be on offense on your app per aw and highlighting your strengths not bringing up attention to your weaknesses. You have a 3.5 not a 3.1: you'll be ok

School list wise go through MSAR. Best range of schools for you will be those that have an McAT median around 33-35 that are OOS friendly and get <10k apps a year. Just like loading up your list with Harvards and Yales of the world won't do anything for you filling up your list with low yield lower tier schools that rarely interview people with this mcat like NYMC Drexel GW etc and "aiming too low" per se isn't going to get you more interviews. Need that right balance. There are high end schools like CWRU Duke and WashU that are worth an app here also
 
glasseagle said:
I would really appreciate it! I was using the search function on general advice for people in my situation and I have seen in particular @gyngyn (would really appreciate input from you since you are faculty at a CA school! though I know I will probably have to leave and there is a very small chance of me staying...) recommend that one would get better results if they included the reason for "dissonance." If one doesn't say then adcoms are left to speculate and I don't want them to think I had substance abuse issues or anything like that. I legit was just very lazy and my grades were not my first priority in undergrad. But then again I don't know how well that will go over with medical schools.
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Okay, moving back
 
GrapesofRath said:
Your GPA really isn't all that low: your within 1 SD of MD matriculants. You'll be ok. Let your trend and MCAT score address concerns about academics not specifically talking about it in your essays

School list wise go through MSAR. Best range of schools for you will be those that have an McAT median around 33-35 that are OOS friendly and get <10k apps a year. Just like loading up your list with Harvards and Yales of the world won't do anything for you filling up your list with low yield lower tier schools that rarely interview people with this mcat like NYMC Drexel GW etc isn't going to get you more interviews. Need that right balance. There are high end schools like CWRU Duke and WashU that are worth an app here also
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My transcript is full of so many C+s that I feel like I need to address. You really don't think I should address it in my PS or anything?

CWRU, Duke and WashU sound amazing but I don't have strong research for them. I was looking at Wayne State, MCW, Jefferson, Cincinnati, all the CA schools (I can't help it), and Ohio State so far.
 
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glasseagle said:
My transcript is full of so many C+s that I feel like I need to address. You really don't think I should address it in my PS or anything?

CWRU, Duke and WashU sound amazing but I don't have strong research for them. I was looking at Wayne State, MCW, Jefferson, Cincinnati, all the CA schools (I can't help it), and Ohio State so far.
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Your research is adequate for the schools listed.

Your best chance of staying in CA is Keck, but it's worth applying to all the UCs (except for Riverside unless you meet their criteria) because they pre-screen secondaries anyway, so you're really only losing $25/school unless you're competitive enough to be considered (which you likely will be for several of them).
 
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Some schools may ask in secondaries/supplemental forms for you to explain any grades below a B- (schools that do MMI are more known to ask these types of questions). If you had one or two bad semesters, then you could bring it up in the interview if your interviewer asks, "are there any red flags you would like to discuss?" Otherwise, as others have suggested, it probably wouldn't be necessary to address it- your sgpa is low, but probably not a deal breaker anyway.
 
glasseagle said:
My transcript is full of so many C+s that I feel like I need to address. You really don't think I should address it in my PS or anything?

CWRU, Duke and WashU sound amazing but I don't have strong research for them. I was looking at Wayne State, MCW, Jefferson, Cincinnati, all the CA schools (I can't help it), and Ohio State so far.
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You have to ask yourself what exactly is addressing them in essays going to accomplish? What is saying " I was lazy or needed time to build up my study habits" really going to accomplish for you? Thats the key thing to ask: what will bringing up the bad grades do for you in terms of pros and cons. I already listed some potential cons above. Like I said above we aren't talking about a 3.1 were talking about a 3.5: your GPA is numerically not all that low to begin with

Briefly mentioning one sentence or two about them is one thing. But at the end of the day you are judged by your record and accomplishments not explanations behind previous mishaps. The best way to show you are over what caused you problems is an academic turnaround which you've done.

Your research experience can suffice for those schools. Like I said you need to aim for some higher end schools with your stats: aiming too low is not going to help you
 
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GrapesofRath said:
You have to ask yourself what exactly is addressing them in essays going to accomplish? What is saying " I was lazy or needed time to build up my study habits" really going to accomplish for you? Thats the key thing to ask: what will bringing up the bad grades do for you in terms of pros and cons. I already listed some potential cons above. Like I said above we aren't talking about a 3.1 were talking about a 3.5: your GPA is numerically not all that low to begin with

Briefly mentioning one sentence or two about them is one thing. But at the end of the day you are judged by your record and accomplishments not explanations behind previous mishaps. The best way to show you are over what caused you problems is an academic turnaround which you've done.
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Thanks. Originally, I was planning on just letting my record speak for itself. But when I was searching I found @gyngyn in particular saying that stats disparities make everyone uneasy and one would be better off explaining it so I'm confused on what approach to take? Low gpas are often apparently due to substance abuse issues and that most definitely isn't what my problem was but if I don't share or tell them they are "left to speculate" :(
 
glasseagle said:
I would really appreciate it! I was using the search function on general advice for people in my situation and I have seen in particular @gyngyn (would really appreciate input from you since you are faculty at a CA school! though I know I will probably have to leave and there is a very small chance of me staying...) recommend that one would get better results if they included the reason for "dissonance." If one doesn't say then adcoms are left to speculate and I don't want them to think I had substance abuse issues or anything like that. I legit was just very lazy and my grades were not my first priority in undergrad. But then again I don't know how well that will go over with medical schools.
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Your ap (with the post-bac) looks good enough.
Unless the secondary gives you space to address it, I would leave it for the interview.
 
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heybubbaa said:
Some schools may ask in secondaries/supplemental forms for you to explain any grades below a B- (schools that do MMI are more known to ask these types of questions). If you had one or two bad semesters, then you could bring it up in the interview if your interviewer asks, "are there any red flags you would like to discuss?" Otherwise, as others have suggested, it probably wouldn't be necessary to address it- your sgpa is low, but probably not a deal breaker anyway.
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Oh god what school does this? I have bad grades scattered all throughout undergrad so would it be ok to say in those secondaries that I had issues with my study habits that I fixed after graduating? Or do I have to explain the scary level of laziness that occurred in each course that I got a B- or below in?
 
glasseagle said:
Oh god what school does this? I have bad grades scattered all throughout undergrad so would it be ok to say in those secondaries that I had issues with my study habits that I fixed after graduating? Or do I have to explain the scary level of laziness that occurred in each course that I got a B- or below in?
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Just keep it simple and say there was a deficit in study habits that have since been identified and corrected, and your MCAT + postbacc grades will do the rest of the talking.
 
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gyngyn said:
Your ap (with the post-bac) looks good enough.
Unless the secondary gives you space to address it, I would leave it for the interview.
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Thank you this made my day!
Do you think I should address it in the secondaries that ask "anything else I'd like for them to know" or only the ones that ask about grade discrepancies?
 
How many schools should I apply to? Do you think I can make do with 25 or should I cast a broader net?
 
Haha sorry...I am researching MSAR right now. should I make a new thread in WAMC?
 
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Come up with a list of 25 using the criteria listed here as your guide. Post those 25 when you've spent time sufficiently researching and considering( no need really for a new thread just post it here). From there youll get input on here how to modify.
 
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Thank you I hope you won't mind me tagging you when I am done with the list!
 
glasseagle said:
Oh god what school does this? I have bad grades scattered all throughout undergrad so would it be ok to say in those secondaries that I had issues with my study habits that I fixed after graduating? Or do I have to explain the scary level of laziness that occurred in each course that I got a B- or below in?
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I know that Cincinnati does. Just give your honest reason - but make sure you talk about how you have grown and matured since then, and how that growth and maturity is exemplified in your recent academic work. They won't knock you too much for the grades -they just want to make sure that you have learned from your mistakes and moved on.
 
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School List:

1) MCW
2) Oakland
3) Tulane
4) Wayne State
5) UCSF
6) Cal Northstate
7) Stanford
8) Keck
9) UCLA
10) UCSD
11) UC Davis
12) Cincinnati
13) Miami
14) Jefferson
15) TCMC
16) Ohio State
17) Michigan State
18) Cincinnati
19) Case Western
20) SUNY Upstate
21) SUNY Downstate
22) NYMC
23) Loyola
24) SLU
25) USF
26) Wake Forest
27) Western Michigan
28) FIU
29) UA-Phoenix
30) Einstein
31) Emory
32) Northwestern
33) Quinnipiac

@gyngyn @GrapesofRath would you mind looking over my list? I feel like if I look at MSAR longer I'm going to keep adding more schools. I don't mind adding slightly more than 25 schools but I want to make sure I have enough time to devote to each application. Please let me know what would be best so I can maximize my chances of getting into at least 1 school. Thank you
 
WedgeDawg said:
Hofstra and Keck should both be (or remain) on your list.
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I would love to attend Keck but they have like a 3.8 or 9 median GPA and Hofstra has a high median GPA too so I am not getting my hopes up too high for them.
 
glasseagle said:
I would love to attend Keck but they have like a 3.8 or 9 median GPA and Hofstra has a high median GPA too so I am not getting my hopes up too high for them.
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All schools will have median GPAs higher than yours, so focus only on the 10th percentiles. If you are above that, you're fine. Hofstra and Keck have a history of interviewing high MCAT low GPA applicants.
 
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I would probably delete Northstate TCMC Michigan State USF Upstate NYMC Quinnipac FIU and Western Michigan.

I see about a dozen schools on your current list you can call targets and say you have a reasonable shot at getting a II at: not bad but you can tweak things some.

Some others worth consideration: Irvine, WashU, UIC and Tufts

I wouldnt apply to more than 25 schools. Your goal is to come up with a list of schools most likely to interview you. IS it within the realm of possibility that a school with lower stats like NYMC does interview you? Yes. Are they the type of school most likely to? No.
 
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gyngyn said:
You are an unlikely matriculant for these schools and they know it.
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I'm sorry I am not following. Would you mind explaining? I could send them a letter of interest after completing my application stating my strong interest in matriculating if I were to be accepted? Would that help?
 
glasseagle said:
I'm sorry I am not following. Would you mind explaining? I could send them a letter of interest after completing my application stating my strong interest in matriculating if I were to be accepted? Would that help?
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Nobody believes these things. Even you are planning to send them to everyone, no?
They know that if you are accepted to a "better" school you will drop them like a hot potato.
 
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glasseagle said:
I'm sorry I am not following. Would you mind explaining? I could send them a letter of interest after completing my application stating my strong interest in matriculating after if I were to be accepted? Would that help?
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The only instance where this would logically help is if you have been accepted to a "better" school and want to attend a "worse" school where you are waitlisted. Otherwise, you're just a desperate applicant crying out for an acceptance.

Your stats indicate that you're likely to get into a "better" school than NYMC etc, so they don't view you as high yield for matriculation. Schools don't want to accept applicants that they think will not come there, so they're often passed over in favor of applicants who are more likely to matriculate. Is it possible for high stats applicants to be accepted at lower stat schools? Yes, but because matriculation is so rare, the acceptance rates are kept low for these types of applicants.
 
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I have a question. What happens if people like OP (high MCAT/ low gpa type people) apply to low tier schools like Rosy F, Drexel, NYMC and schools of the like but they happen to actually be from the state? Like what happens if the OP was actually from PA and applied to Drexel and Temple...wouldn't they be likely to attend if accepted? Would an applicant still be screened out if they were above the 90th percentile but were a resident of state that has the low tier schools?
 
starspells said:
I have a question. What happens if people like OP (high MCAT/ low gpa type people) apply to low tier schools like Rosy F, Drexel, NYMC and schools of the like but they happen to actually be from the state? Like what happens if the OP was actually from PA and applied to Drexel and Temple...wouldn't they be likely to attend if accepted? Would an applicant still be screened out if they were above the 90th percentile but were a resident of state that has the low tier schools?
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It definitely helps at IS public schools (except CA, mostly...).
 
Don't waste your PS for explaining poor grades. That will be addressed and discussed in interviews and/or secondaries!
 
gyngyn said:
It definitely helps at IS public schools (except CA, mostly...).
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Thank you for replying. You don't think it would help at the IS private schools? I know there is some slight bias toward IS applicants even at private schools due to yield so I feel like like low gpa high mcat people would be a great applicant for low tier private schools like RF, NYMC, Temple, etc.
 
Do schools really have an automatic screen for high MCATs like they do for a certain GPA (3.0) and MCAT (25 or whatever it may be)?
 
starspells said:
Thank you for replying. You don't think it would help at the IS private schools? I know there is some slight bias toward IS applicants even at private schools due to yield so I feel like like low gpa high mcat people would be a great applicant for low tier private schools like RF, NYMC, Temple, etc.
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Sure, it will have some effect. It is just a lot more penetrant at public schools since they are a lot cheaper.
 
Unless you are fluent in Spanish or have a history of involvement in the Hispanic community, don't apply to FIU. They're very mission driven.

USF may be up your alley if you apply to SELECT since they have low/no instate preference and are more lenient on grades. But look into what select entails...high tuition, clinical sites are in Pennsylvania.
 
Also id say drop a bunch of those state schools. You will be much better served applying to privates. The state schools aren't interested in handing out acceptances to high MCAT OOS kids who probably won't go.

Also add Virginia tech. They are perhaps the most "MCAT over everythang" school out there - and have one of the lowest median GPAs to prove it.
 
Hi @gyngyn I am currently working on my list and I still feel extremely hesitant about deleting the schools you mentioned (esp the low tier ones). I can understand why these schools would think that I would go somewhere better if I got in but I am currently at a point where I am concerned I won't receive any interviews. I've searched a few WAMC threads with stats similar to mine and some people seemed to get really unlucky. I don't know if it was due to a poor school list or what.

If I don't receive any interviews by november or december do you think it would be worth sending a combined letter of interest and update letter in hopes of showing strong interest in attending? If I was flooded with other offers I wouldn't be sending one at that point. Or at least I hope this is how it comes off.
 
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