MD How bad is a grade of "Pass" on Medicine SubI?

[Caltechstud]

I just learned I got only a "Pass" on IM SubI. If my dream is to apply IM - is this viewed as a red flag?

On my eval - I got ratings almost all above average/high pass - with a few averages and equal number of honors balancing it out. I have on clue why the attending circled "average/pass" for my final grade. Should I bother appealing this eval?

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[sliceofbread136]

Yes appeal, this will hurt your app

 

[cbrons]

I just learned I got only a "Pass" on IM SubI. If my dream is to apply IM - is this viewed as a red flag?

On my eval - I got ratings almost all above average/high pass - with a few averages and equal number of honors balancing it out. I have on clue why the attending circled "average/pass" for my final grade. Should I bother appealing this eval?

It's better than a failure.

Are you a USMD or USDO student? Or are you an IMG?

 

[MSTP18]

Also, are you looking to just match or are you aiming for MGH?

 

[bannie22]

It is always assumed you will honor your intended speciality sub-I.
For sure you will not be matching at that program.
A high pass will also raise questions.
A pass is a problem.

 

[ActinicKeratosis]

Not ideal. However at a certain point you just need to stop caring about clinical grades. I stopped caring about clinical grades towards the middle of my third year. Paradoxically I actually earned more honors towards the later half of third year. Go figure.

 

[Caltechstud]

I am a US MD - hoping to match into an academic program. My school's distribution of SubI grades are 1/4 Honors, 2/4 High Pass, 1/4 Pass.

 

[Anicetus]

I just learned I got only a "Pass" on IM SubI. If my dream is to apply IM - is this viewed as a red flag?

On my eval - I got ratings almost all above average/high pass - with a few averages and equal number of honors balancing it out. I have on clue why the attending circled "average/pass" for my final grade. Should I bother appealing this eval?

This makes zero sense to me. Why would a school give "passes" out to subI's?? If they wanted to screw your for IM they would've given you a pass in IM in third year and swayed you away that way. Giving them a Pass in SubI only hurts students.

 

[xffan624]

I just learned I got only a "Pass" on IM SubI. If my dream is to apply IM - is this viewed as a red flag?

On my eval - I got ratings almost all above average/high pass - with a few averages and equal number of honors balancing it out. I have on clue why the attending circled "average/pass" for my final grade. Should I bother appealing this eval?

I applied to peds and got a P in my peds subI. I felt pretty disappointed at the time but I still matched at a decent academic program that was high on my ROL. Not the same specialty but I think it can be overcome. Apply broadly and assume that it will probably keep you from the top notch places (did for me, despite having good step scores).

 

[ActinicKeratosis]

This makes zero sense to me. Why would a school give "passes" out to subI's?? If they wanted to screw your for IM they would've given you a pass in IM in third year and swayed you away that way. Giving them a Pass in SubI only hurts students.

Yeah I agree. Fortunately my school got rid of all this honors/pass nonsense for fourth year.

 

[Anicetus]

Yeah I agree. Fortunately my school got rid of all this honors/pass nonsense for fourth year.

Do you know if honoring the third year clerkship for IM can help them "overlook" a "pass" in the SubI?

 

[ActinicKeratosis]

Do you know if honoring the third year clerkship for IM can help them "overlook" a "pass" in the SubI?

Honoring a third year clerkship is important and looks great. "Overlook" a pass in a SubI? I'm sure it completely varies by program. If your application looks well otherwise I wouldn't sweat it. It's easy to fixate on the aspects of our applications that are weaker (like remembering only the questions that you got wrong on step 1). I honestly wouldn't worry about it if you are an otherwise strong applicant.

 

[username456789]

This makes zero sense to me. Why would a school give "passes" out to subI's?? If they wanted to screw your for IM they would've given you a pass in IM in third year and swayed you away that way. Giving them a Pass in SubI only hurts students.

Maybe if they earned it.

Not everybody is the best.

I totally get the awful subjective nature of clinical grades, but at some point students have to learn that you don't just get a gold star for showing up, and grades generally are (or should be) earned.

I do agree that in this instance, it sounds like most of your individual a valuations were trending rather positively. If there's anyway to appeal the final eval, I would definitely look into it.

 

[Anicetus]

Maybe if they earned it.

Not everybody is the best.

I totally get the awful subjective nature of clinical grades, but at some point students have to learn that you don't just get a gold star for showing up, and grades generally are (or should be) earned.

I do agree that in this instance, it sounds like most of your individual a valuations were trending rather positively. If there's anyway to appeal the final eval, I would definitely look into it.

I agree with you. However there is a difference between cutoff grades and comparative grading. Just like high school where there are set cutoffs regardless of how smart your colleagues are. In the comparative grading where a group of students could all performing at an honor level may still have to be forced into a bell curve where they can't give a specific number of honors. I get that not everyone gets an honors for just showing up but when a group of students is all doing much better than that, it's depressing to see the attending/administration know that they all deserved an honors or high pass. The bell curve either is in place because they assume some students will be innately bad or lazy and must assign students to that category, or they need to be restricting honors on the basis of saturation and that "not everyone is allowed to have nice things in this world" principle, which plain sucks at the end of the day.

 

[username456789]

I agree with you. However there is a difference between cutoff grades and comparative grading. Just like high school where there are set cutoffs regardless of how smart your colleagues are. In the comparative grading where a group of students could all performing at an honor level may still have to be forced into a bell curve where they can't give a specific number of honors. I get that not everyone gets an honors for just showing up but when a group of students is all doing much better than that, it's depressing to see the attending/administration know that they all deserved an honors or high pass. The bell curve either is in place because they assume some students will be innately bad or lazy and must assign students to that category, or they need to be restricting honors on the basis of saturation and that "not everyone is allowed to have nice things in this world" principle, which plain sucks at the end of the day.

No I hear ya loud and clear. It gets difficult to continuously stratify the cream of the crop at every step. And in some regards, it doesn't quite seem fair.

I agree that it shouldn't be an obligation to give a certain number of people a bad grade. And in the original poster's case, it certainly doesn't sound like he was doing a bad job at every step of the way or anything. In a more general sense, though, getting a lower than desired grade, if warranted, should not be thought of as the school screwing someone.

How often is it warranted? Probably more than we think.

 

[Caltechstud]

Maybe if they earned it.

Not everybody is the best.

I totally get the awful subjective nature of clinical grades, but at some point students have to learn that you don't just get a gold star for showing up, and grades generally are (or should be) earned.

I do agree that in this instance, it sounds like most of your individual a valuations were trending rather positively. If there's anyway to appeal the final eval, I would definitely look into it.

Totally agree with you.

On another note - another friend of mine who did a SubI after interview season - put in minimal effort, carried only 1-2 patients, and got an Honors grade from an attending who checked off the highest level across the board.

In my case - on a scale of 1-5, across 10 grading criteria - 6 was a 4, 2 was a 3, and 2 was a 5 - yet my final grade was only a 3 "pass". I just don't get it - how is an attending even allowed to do this?

 

[MSTP18]

Totally agree with you.

On another note - another friend of mine who did a SubI after interview season - put in minimal effort, carried only 1-2 patients, and got an Honors grade from an attending who checked off the highest level across the board.

In my case - on a scale of 1-5, across 10 grading criteria - 6 was a 4, 2 was a 3, and 2 was a 5 - yet my final grade was only a 3 "pass". I just don't get it - how is an attending even allowed to do this?

Unless the school has a policy of specifically weighing certain criteria more than others, it would seem to me that you have a clear case for having your grade changed to a 4 - what your average across the 10 domains was.

 

[Gameofscones]

I am in a similarly poor situation, Wondering how you did in matching for residency. I am applying this year

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

OP hasn’t been seen since 2018. Closing.