how bad is it?

[wheatie]

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I am a post-bac pre-med considering DO and MD programs that offer alternative health electives.

I know this may be a fantasy, but are there any paths some can recommend that are a little less Navy Seals than I hear most medical schools are? I know that there are new laws limiting the amount of time interns and residents are allowed to work per shift, but the thought of tending to sick people in a cranky and fuzzy state of sleep deprivation really makes me balk. When I think about that part I wonder if it would be easier to try to be a PA or a NP and just take it easy.

This is sort of embarassing, also, but are there any schools that offer like more vacation time or a slower paced curriculum? I know, I know, I know that medical school is very intense and takes up your whole life, and it totally scares me. The thought of being a doctor doesn't scare me, and the thought of going through more school than you do as a PA or an NP is what makes me want to pursue the medical degree (if I will be prescribing drugs and dealing with other people's health, I want make the best-informed decisions possible), but the thought of subsuming my identity in this sort of boot camp environment where you barely catch your breath between studying and coffee, that to me sounds totally and ironically unhealthy. I really like my pre-med classes and I'm doing well so far, and I would love to be able to help sick people. But I also like to listen to new records, have dinner with friends from time to time, and not be a total stresscase.

Please if anyone can point me in the direction of this kind of program, I would really appreciate it. Maybe I am lazy, but I would prefer a more relaxed environment. Maybe I will be able to relax once I am there. But if it is going to be a non-stop stress world I feel like i should start looking for new paths.

 

[madonna]

hey i am not sure if got your question right. i know there are med schools that allow you to complete your 1st year in tow. so its less intense. since first year is when you are kind of adjusting to the workload i think its a big deal.. not sure whch ones do this but i know they exist.

hope it helps.

 

[MercyKillerDoc]

Medical school does not always have to be like that if you are not too concerned about your grades and just want to pass. The craziness ensues when you are shooting for a high class rank. I believe some schools do offer a 5 year program though which you may be interested in. I do not know much about this though.

 

[Law2Doc]

Medical school does not always have to be like that if you are not too concerned about your grades and just want to pass. The craziness ensues when you are shooting for a high class rank. I believe some schools do offer a 5 year program though which you may be interested in. I do not know much about this though.

You are still going to need to learn the bulk of the material even just to pass, and so you will have to treat it as more than a full time job. The gap between the quantity of knowledge absorbed by the honors students and those squeaking by is really not that vast, from what I have seen (and tends to result from more of a difference in quality of studying, and better test taking skills rather than quantity of studying or number of hours logged in teh library). You will be in a class exclusively with students who had a B+ or better average in college, mostly in hard sciences, so you have to work a decent amount just to stay at the bottom of the pack. And certainly you will need to have the material in your head at some point to pass the boards. 3d year and residency tend not to be negotiable long hours, so doing med school in five years instead of 4 only postpones the inevitable (you could also add a research year someplace to postpone it further if you really wanted to). So, no -- if you aren't looking for an intense professoin where people study really hard, expect you to know a ton and to respond well on little sleep, then medicine may not be the right one for you.

 

[MercyKillerDoc]

I guess this doesnt take into account that there are people of above average ability that could get by without killing themselves over their work just to pass. This may be true of the average student though. It is true that rotations are long hours for everyone though.

 

[Rendar5]

Some schools allow the option of completing the curriculum in 5 years instead of 4 years. But what u actually might want to ask about is how their curriculum flows. is it 2-3 really intense short classes at a time, or 4-5 year-long classes at a time u gotta be studying for all the time.

As for restricting number of hours working in a hospital, that's not a med school issue as far as I know. That's a residency issue.

 

[Law2Doc]

I guess this doesnt take into account that there are people of above average ability that could get by without killing themselves over their work just to pass. This may be true of the average student though. It is true that rotations are long hours for everyone though.

All med students are "people above average ability". While some are a lot better than others, I've yet to come across the person who was comfortable "taking it easy" in med school. Aside from the obvious reason that it would be silly to close off career options for yourself if you are really bright, I believe the material is so voluminous that even the best student can't learn all of it and thus one who is trying to squeak by would never really know if he/she learned "enough" to get the passing grade, with the end result that he/she just gave up his/her summer the retake the course...

There are really bright people studying as much as 8-10 hours a day to get honors. The same person could probably pass on 4-5 hours a day -- maybe. But the down side is having to retake a class you could have aced if you put the time in. Who would risk it?

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

All med students are "people above average ability". While some are a lot better than others, I've yet to come across the person who was comfortable "taking it easy" in med school. Aside from the obvious reason that it would be silly to close off career options for yourself if you are really bright, I believe the material is so voluminous that even the best student can't learn all of it and thus one who is trying to squeak by would never really know if he/she learned "enough" to get the passing grade, with the end result that he/she just gave up his/her summer the retake the course...

There are really bright people studying as much as 8-10 hours a day to get honors. The same person could probably pass on 4-5 hours a day -- maybe. But the down side is having to retake a class you could have aced if you put the time in. Who would risk it?

I agree that everyone has to work hard during medical school, particularly during the first clinical year. However, a lot of the amount of time you work is choice. For instance, I chose not to spend a lot of time studying -- in general, I would study the weekend before the exam (during the classroom part) or a couple evenings before the exam (during the clinical year). I did fine -- but then again, my goal is not to be at the top of the class. However, if the OP is really concerned about the work and time commitments, maybe you should consider another health profession. At least at my school, PAs have it a lot easier -- they have almost all outpatient rotations, and for their one inpatient rotation have much more reasonable expectations than medical students.

 

[Law2Doc]

I agree that everyone has to work hard during medical school, particularly during the first clinical year. However, a lot of the amount of time you work is choice. For instance, I chose not to spend a lot of time studying -- in general, I would study the weekend before the exam (during the classroom part) or a couple evenings before the exam (during the clinical year). I did fine ...

I've certainly heard of people who tried what you did and didn't do fine (i.e had to retake stuff) -- it may depend on the school and how willing they are to push you on to the next year. Don't assume that's the case everywhere (or even most places).

 

[efex101]

It also depends on the ability of individual students...some DO need to study all the time while others do not. It is amazing to hear about folks that "just go to class and listen" and then pass everything...I only know of maybe two folks like this period. This is not the case for most students whom have to read a lot, go to class or not depending on their learning style, and then read some more. Most folks DO spend a lot of time studying...do not be fooled folks! maybe the SAY they do not but they DO. People like to always brag about "oh I barely touched this material" yeah right sure.

 

[tigress]

The 5-year option really is a good one for some people. It's in no way "postponing the inevitable;" rather it's allowing the student to take 3 years to learn the pre-clinical material, at which point he or she goes on to regular 3rd and 4th years. But pre-clinical and clinical years in med school are incredibly different. Somebody could easily excell in clinical rotations and yet want the extra time to absorb all of the information from pre-clinical courses.

What I'm not sure of from the OP is whether he is concerned about pre-clinical time spent studying, or actual time committment during clinical rotations and residency (or both). You say that being a doctor doesn't scare you, but if you are concerned about the time spent in training, maybe it should. At the very least, you'll have 3 intense years after medical school in which you will be worked HARD (it can sometimes be like boot camp; of course there may be easier segments, and there are also easier -- in terms of time -- residencies). If you want to specialize in any way you may have quite a bit more. So if it's the actual clinical training that you're worried about, you might want to spend some time talking to 3rd year med students, residents, and fellows, and perhaps shadow a resident or a doctor not long out of residency to get a feel for what it's like.

 

[BooMed]

I am a post-bac pre-med considering DO and MD programs that offer alternative health electives.

I know this may be a fantasy, but are there any paths some can recommend that are a little less Navy Seals than I hear most medical schools are? I know that there are new laws limiting the amount of time interns and residents are allowed to work per shift, but the thought of tending to sick people in a cranky and fuzzy state of sleep deprivation really makes me balk. When I think about that part I wonder if it would be easier to try to be a PA or a NP and just take it easy.

This is sort of embarassing, also, but are there any schools that offer like more vacation time or a slower paced curriculum? I know, I know, I know that medical school is very intense and takes up your whole life, and it totally scares me. The thought of being a doctor doesn't scare me, and the thought of going through more school than you do as a PA or an NP is what makes me want to pursue the medical degree (if I will be prescribing drugs and dealing with other people's health, I want make the best-informed decisions possible), but the thought of subsuming my identity in this sort of boot camp environment where you barely catch your breath between studying and coffee, that to me sounds totally and ironically unhealthy. I really like my pre-med classes and I'm doing well so far, and I would love to be able to help sick people. But I also like to listen to new records, have dinner with friends from time to time, and not be a total stresscase.

Please if anyone can point me in the direction of this kind of program, I would really appreciate it. Maybe I am lazy, but I would prefer a more relaxed environment. Maybe I will be able to relax once I am there. But if it is going to be a non-stop stress world I feel like i should start looking for new paths.

Amen. Working 80 hours weeks in a constant state of sleep deprivation = ridiculous. Harmful to doctors, harmful to patients.

 

[Law2Doc]

Amen. Working 80 hours weeks in a constant state of sleep deprivation = ridiculous. Harmful to doctors, harmful to patients.

Possibly. But then again, if you aren't there, you aren't learning -- and a lot of stuff goes down after your shift ends.

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

I've certainly heard of people who tried what you did and didn't do fine (i.e had to retake stuff) -- it may depend on the school and how willing they are to push you on to the next year. Don't assume that's the case everywhere (or even most places).

I actually go to a fairly tough school (top 10) and I manage to get pretty good grades that way (above the mean but not top of the class, which is fine with me). And some people in my class appear to get by with studying less than I do. 😛 My point is that it is possible to get through med school without being a slave to the books -- but as you correctly point out, a lot of that depends on the individual. Not everyone can use these study habits, but I can't imagine that many people would need to study for 4-5 hours per day everyday, either.

 

[wheatie]

Thanks everyone for your help. I guess it will depend a lot on the particular school and curriculum, as well as my own capabilities as a student. Right now I sort of do what some of the posters were talking about (Not study like crazy all the time, mostly here and there and before the test) and so far I am keeping up fine.


Also I have heard from the DO forum that going into family practice is a less m militaristic route, which was the plan I had orignially, so that calmed me down a little.

Either way, thanks for the input.

 

[Law2Doc]

I actually go to a fairly tough school (top 10) and I manage to get pretty good grades that way (above the mean but not top of the class, which is fine with me). And some people in my class appear to get by with studying less than I do. 😛 My point is that it is possible to get through med school without being a slave to the books -- but as you correctly point out, a lot of that depends on the individual. Not everyone can use these study habits, but I can't imagine that many people would need to study for 4-5 hours per day everyday, either.

Sounds like not all schools are the same in terms of exam expectations, (and also sounds from your posts like your school is perhaps not as impossible to coast by in as some others) and so it is problematic for either of us to make blanket statements. While I've certainly known people who claim not to do much work, they tend to greatly exaggerate, and I've not personally come across people being successful (or even average) without busting a gut studying. Thus perhaps at some places you can get through med school without "being a slave to the books" but certainly that is not the case at all places or for all people. Bottom line though is that med school is not a good place to be unless you plan to do a lot of hard work.