how bad is the "doctor tax" in california?

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by phillyfornia, Apr 4, 2008.

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  1. phillyfornia

    phillyfornia Member 7+ Year Member

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    i'm going to be starting residency soon and right now it looks like i'll be staying in california afterward to work afterward. i personally wouldn't mind going to the work in the boonies for a few years so that i can set up an FYA (as jetprop calls it) but the wife doesn't want to leave southern california.

    i know that this will affect my income since desirable locations like so cal pay less (i.e. the doctor tax). i was wondering how much less money i'm looking at here though. can anyone give me an idea of how the california job market is?
     
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  3. Leverage

    Leverage 2+ Year Member

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    Also does anyone know if pay is less due to supply and demand in addition to tax rates??? Maybe both???

    Seven states have no state income tax: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. Two others, New Hampshire and Tennessee, tax only dividend and interest income....Are these good states to practice in????
     
  4. pseudoknot

    pseudoknot Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    I don't think the OP meant literal tax rates. I think he meant that doctors get paid less in the coastal cities in CA (because of supply and demand, yeah) and that is like a "tax."

    I've only heard about academic salary differences so I can't comment on numbers. I'm sure it'll be substantially lower, but you get what you pay for, sometimes.
     
  5. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic! Staff Member Lifetime Donor SDN Chief Administrator 10+ Year Member

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    I'd be interested in hearing as well if anesthesia positions are much less.

    When I was interviewing for surgery positions, some places were offering as much as 50-100K less per year because it was "in California".

    Whoop de do...guess they thought I was some east coaster enthralled with California. I figured I'd live in Arizona and can go home to California anytime I want to visit the family and friends.
     
  6. 2ndyear

    2ndyear Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    My friends who have taken jobs in California all have generally higher salaries than those in the northeast. The practice model is generally different (lots of CRNA supervision in the northeast, lots of all MD in California), but even academic jobs seem to be going for more out west.

    I looked into a couple of jobs in New Hampshire. $200,000/year was not an unusual first year salary up there. I know no tax, but it still seemed kind of low.
     
  7. UTSouthwestern

    UTSouthwestern 1K Member Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

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    It seems that the northeast has the lowest salaries in general, not including the older anesthesiologists sitting at the top of their respective empires. California is probably next up.

    I did interview in California and was offered good packages from three groups in good locations (San Fran, San Diego, and just south of Palo Alto), but none could match what I was offered elsewhere, especially here in Texas, so great practice, low cost of living, and high income in a good, not great city, won out over the beauty of California.
     
  8. coprolalia

    coprolalia Bored Certified 2+ Year Member

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    Actually, the "gubernator" has proposed a separate tax on healthcare workers because, you know, we get paid so much and we should be directly part of the solution of the healthcare crises because, you know, we are part of the problem and whatnot.

    http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/5057/

    It's completely asinine logic. And, more of a reason not to work in California if you are a healthcare provider. (Schwarzenegger is only a republican on paper.)

    -copro
     
  9. UTSouthwestern

    UTSouthwestern 1K Member Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

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    The proposal did not pass. In a response to a letter I sent to him last yera, the following reply regarding my concerns about the tax were addressed as follows:

    Thank you for writing to express your concerns and suggestions for addressing California's health care challenges. Governor Schwarzenegger appreciates hearing from people on the important issues facing our state.

    Although California enjoys a reputation for excellent health care services, the system for delivering those services is broken. Six and a half million Californians are uninsured. Providers shift the cost of uncompensated care to private payers, a problem further aggravated by underpayments from Medi-Cal. As a result, insured individuals and employers pay a "hidden tax" of up to an estimated 17 percent in additional premiums to compensate for the uninsured and underinsured.

    The growing cost of health care has intensified these difficulties. Health care spending has almost doubled in the last 10 years, and premiums continue to grow faster than inflation. Further, medical errors, chronic diseases, and poor lifestyle choices drive increases in health care spending.

    Governor Schwarzenegger is committed to enacting a comprehensive solution to our current health care crisis and working with the California Legislature, stakeholders, consumer groups, and others to design a solution that is effective, reasonable, and fair to everyone.

    The Governor has proposed a bold and comprehensive approach aligned with the values of prevention and wellness, shared responsibility for covering all Californians, and health care affordability. He believes that health care coverage and costs are problems that, working together, we can solve.

    The Governor's plan promotes prevention and wellness by providing appropriate incentives for individuals to make healthier choices. Premium discounts and rewards will be tied to preventative health services. Enhanced disease management and the use of e-prescribing will increase efficiency and cut costs by managing chronic illnesses before expensive intervention services become a last resort. Obesity is our number one public health priority, and the Governor's plan positions California to lead the nation in the battle against obesity, much as California has done with tobacco control.

    Second, the Governor's plan advances the principle of shared responsibility. Just as all sectors of society share in the benefits of coverage for all Californians, so too must each sector share responsibility. Fixing our broken health care system requires changes from all of us, including individuals, government, medical providers, insurers, and employers.

    Responsibility begins with the individual. Under the Governor's plan, all Californians will be required to obtain health care coverage for themselves and their children. The state, in turn, will take responsibility for supporting access to affordable coverage for low-income Californians. Californians under 100 percent of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) will be able to enroll in Medi-Cal. Working families earning $20,000 to $50,000 a year will be eligible for coverage subsidies, and all children will be covered up to 300 percent FPL (which is $60,000 for a family of four) through Medi-Cal or Healthy Families. The state will also increase its Medi-Cal reimbursement rates to adequate levels, substantially reducing the hidden tax.

    Doctors and hospitals will benefit from $10 billion to $15 billion in new funds added to the health care system. In turn, doctors and hospitals have a responsibility to provide affordable, quality coverage, and to share in the cost savings. Providers will contribute a portion of the coverage dividend associated with universal coverage and increased Medi-Cal rates. Physicians will contribute 2 percent of revenues, and hospitals will contribute 4 percent, ensuring some of the new revenue stays in the system to support total coverage and increased Medi-Cal rates.

    Health plans also play a key role in guaranteeing coverage. Health plans will no longer be able to refuse individuals based on age or health status or drive them away with excessive premiums. In addition, health plans will be required to dedicate 85 percent of premiums to patient care and to offer "Healthy Actions," benefits designed to encourage and reward healthy behaviors.

    Lastly, employers are critical to any reform effort and have important roles to play as well. Under the Governor's plan, employers will be required to offer plans that allow employees to make pre-tax contributions to health care costs. Employers with more than 10 employees who choose not to offer health care coverage will contribute 4 percent of payroll to the statewide purchasing pool, helping to level the playing field between offering and non-offering employers to ensure that incentives aren't created for employers to drop coverage.

    The Governor's plan recognizes that coverage and cost are inextricably linked. That is why the third component of reform is affordability. We must drive down rising health care costs and provide relief for both the insured and uninsured alike. In addition to addressing the hidden tax, the Governor's plan takes clear steps to make insurance more affordable. Individuals will be able to pay for their health coverage and contribute to Health Savings Accounts using pretax dollars. To stimulate the development of lower-cost, high-quality models of care, the state will lower regulatory barriers that stifle health care innovation and increase costs. The state will embrace and accelerate the adoption of advanced health information technology to streamline operations, reduce duplication of services, and prevent medical errors.

    There must be bold changes so that high quality care is accessible and affordable for all Californians. We have a responsibility to take action. Working together, we can reduce the hidden tax and achieve more affordable health care, coverage for all, and a healthier California.

    Thank you once again for taking the time to share your thoughts.



    Again, targeting physicians with a tax seemingly under the misguided notion that all or even the majority of California physicians are living the Robert Rey life is truly idiotic. My friends practicing primary care in California are mostly low low middle income earners in the California income strata, after just practice expenses, overhead, employee salaries, benefits, equipment costs, and equipment amortization, etc. are subtracted from the gross income. Tack on a 2% tax on that gross and you drop their net income by almost 10%. The threat was enough to make two of them relocate to Austin and here to Dallas. Both miss California, but appreciate the difference in income and the possibility to actually retire from practice and not die in it.

    Also, where is the 2% actors'/performers' tax? Two percent politicians tax? Two percent LAWYERS' tax? If the governator wants to target high income professions to subsidize health care in California, he is certainly missing the larger targets and his proposal still fails to address indigent populations that earn income or draw state benefits, yet contribute nothing in taxes.
     
  10. coprolalia

    coprolalia Bored Certified 2+ Year Member

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    Exactly! Why single out doctors and other healthcare providers/organizations?

    I just can't fathom the logic in devising such a plan. You are somehow penalizing the people providing the care as if they are part of the problem, which (I fear) is a common perception out there.

    -copro
     
  11. stewiegriffinFG

    stewiegriffinFG 2+ Year Member

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    Don't trade good weather and non-cultured "Californian" for living in a cost-black-hole for the rest of your life. Get out as soon as you can.

    There are cheaper, better places to live.
     
  12. nociceptor

    nociceptor 2+ Year Member

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    this should help


    [​IMG]
     
  13. coprolalia

    coprolalia Bored Certified 2+ Year Member

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    Apparently we touched a nerve...

    Anyway, I agree that it's a nice place to visit.

    If I was going to live on the left coast, it would be in Brookings, Oregon. Beautiful place. And, you can always make a quick twenty minute drive to take a dump in California when necessary. :laugh:

    -copro
     
  14. pseudoknot

    pseudoknot Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    Well, after Stewie's tirade I have to say that I love California, and if you don't like it there are 49 other states you can live in. I would also add that the cultures of Northern and Southern California are very different, and what Stewie was talking about really applies more to Southern CA (in a grotesque charicature kind of way). I even think that CA is worth the cost of living.
     
  15. coprolalia

    coprolalia Bored Certified 2+ Year Member

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    Thank God for that.

    Now, pray tell us what makes California such a special place in which to live.

    -copro
     
  16. stewiegriffinFG

    stewiegriffinFG 2+ Year Member

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    Aren't the financial burdens that the government imposes also applying to actors, directors, studios, etc? I thought that a lot of studio work is now being done out of the country, in such places as Canada. It might be an over-generatlization.
     
  17. Hawaiian Bruin

    Hawaiian Bruin Breaking Good 10+ Year Member

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    Within an easy drive from my place:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Etc. etc. etc.
     
  18. coprolalia

    coprolalia Bored Certified 2+ Year Member

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    Also within an easy drive of your place...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    http://www.johnrook.com/Governor%20Arnold%20Schwarzenegger.jpg
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Etc. etc. etc.
     
  19. Hawaiian Bruin

    Hawaiian Bruin Breaking Good 10+ Year Member

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    [​IMG]
    The VA blocks this image, so no snarky comeback from me.
    [​IMG]
    You're right, there are no homeless people anywhere but California.
    [​IMG]
    Since this happened we've all just gotten along.
    [​IMG]
    They're taking our jobs! The ones nobody else wants to do, that is.
    [​IMG]
    I liked him best in Predator, True Lies, T2, and Total Recall.
    [​IMG]
    Yes, natural disasters are also confined within California state limits.
    [​IMG]
    The only thing that's certain in life besides death.
    [​IMG]
    That's just blatant fear mongering. I only burgled twice last year and couldn't have committed more than fifteen or so murders. I call BS on the crime clock. Also, I reserve the right to commit violent crimes whenever the VA nurses call me at 3AM for normal vitals.
     
  20. coprolalia

    coprolalia Bored Certified 2+ Year Member

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    Well, that right is, thankfully, also shared with residents of the other 49 states as well. So, nothing special about California there.

    -copro
     
  21. chocomorsel

    chocomorsel Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Fcuking hilarious copro!!!!! I laughed out loud at the "Mexifornia" drivers licence. OMG, that was too funny.
    I also don't understand the crazy cost of living in Cali. Yes it's beautiful, but come on, is it really worth the money? I say live somewhere cheap and take vacations out to Cali frequently with all the extra money you are making that the Cali's are sacrificing just for the beauty of the state.
     
  22. pseudoknot

    pseudoknot Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    It's a matter of personal taste. Would you take part in a thread on why the color red was best? I'm not going to argue about the matter because I'm not a retard, but I do think people should show a little respect when talking about someone's home.
     
  23. stewiegriffinFG

    stewiegriffinFG 2+ Year Member

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    Funny story: the government thinks that they own you and everything you produce. Fortunately for us, they let us keep part of it. It's called an income tax.

    I love how the candidates talk about stealing people's hard earned money and giving it to someone else in the lightest of words.

    Sorry about the OT.
     
  24. pseudoknot

    pseudoknot Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    OK, this thread started out with someone who wants to live in a specific part of the country, and wanting to know about salaries. I think that's a really legitimate question.

    Unfortunately, and in typical SDN fashion, it degenerates into ignorant bashing of our largest state, and now some archconservative ranting about taxes. WTF.
     
  25. lane

    lane Passing gas 10+ Year Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  26. coprolalia

    coprolalia Bored Certified 2+ Year Member

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    [​IMG]

    -copro
     
  27. coprolalia

    coprolalia Bored Certified 2+ Year Member

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    Hahahahaha!!! :laugh: Yeah, I guess we have to figure out what was meant by "largest".

    Largest economy? Yes.
    Largest in size? No.
    Largest in population? Yes.
    Largest in per-capita income? No.
    Largest in Gross Domestic Product? Yes.
    Largest in money spent per-capita on education? No.
    Largest percentage of Spanish-speaking? Yes.
    Largest percent growth in overall population between 2000-2006 (not counting illegals)? No.
    Largest "death row" population in the U.S.? Yes.
    Largest percentage of "death row" executions in the U.S.? No.

    The bashing isn't "ignorant", though. It's actually quite well-informed.

    -copro
     
  28. stewiegriffinFG

    stewiegriffinFG 2+ Year Member

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    When you discuss a decision to move to a state whose government believes that physicians are its property and can thus charge a surcharge on their profession, it's a good idea to talk about all of the problems there are, instead of painting a picture solely of rainbows, Saved By the Bell, Disney Land, mountain ranges, etc.

    High taxes, high real estate, high cost of living, high proportion of illegal immigrants, high crime, etc should play into the decision also.
     
  29. pseudoknot

    pseudoknot Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    Well, the OP didn't ask for help deciding where to move, and I don't think it's our business to say what factors should or shouldn't play into the decision. He said his wife wanted to stay in SoCal, and what are the salaries like.

    Do you really think that he's going to go back to her and say, "hey, honey, some troll on SDN just registered to say that California is a horrible state and no one should live there, so I guess we have to move?"
     
  30. coprolalia

    coprolalia Bored Certified 2+ Year Member

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    Troll? I don't think you know what an Internet troll really is if you think any of these posts were trolling.

    Hey, you are free to live wherever you want and think whatever you want. That's part of what makes this country great, despite many of its social problems. But, you gotta be able to take the rose-colored glasses off from time to time and see the reality for what it is. And, you should, at the very least, respect the fact that many out there don't share your opinion about how great the State of California is. It's a beautiful place as far as climate and nature go, but that's about it.

    -copro
     
  31. Hawaiian Bruin

    Hawaiian Bruin Breaking Good 10+ Year Member

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    The bottom line is this:

    California is expensive.

    Some people (such as myself) are willing to pay a premium to live here, because we enjoy the mountains/ocean/food/climate/etc. It means a lot to me that I can snowboard in the morning, surf in the afternoon, and get amazing sushi for dinner all in the same day.

    Some people do not find the same value in these things, and would prefer to live somewhere else where their money goes farther.

    To each their own. All this noise about immigrants and crime is just that- noise- and not pertinent to the original discussion.
     
  32. nociceptor

    nociceptor 2+ Year Member

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    I don't think it is fair to talk about California without pictures of two things (I like pictures)

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    what would California be without these things?

    Now back to your regularly scheduled California dispute.:corny:
     
  33. me454555

    me454555 Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    Totally agree, I'll be seeing you out in cali in a few years. Anyplace worth living is just expensive, thats just the way it is.
     
  34. nociceptor

    nociceptor 2+ Year Member

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    I might disagree with that during certain times of the year.

    [​IMG]
     
  35. coprolalia

    coprolalia Bored Certified 2+ Year Member

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    What about favorable practice environment? Is that not important? California is the only place "worth living" in?

    I could show you dozens of places "worth living" where you get a better payor mix, better starting (and max) salary, are just as beautiful, and will overall give you a better quality of life. You can live near the beach and drive a couple of hours to skiing. Your kids will get an awesome education at the public school level. And, you've got fine dining, night life, hot babes, and a ton of other stuff to do at half the cost.

    Of course, what you won't have is doped-up Paris Hilton's parading their bare twats around, a ceaseless inflow of non-paying and resource draining illegal immigrants, a real estate environment where dollar-per-square-foot costs approach those of premium business lease properties in major business districts, and a tax structure that is punitive to those who actually are successful, contributing members of society.

    You're right. It's all about what you want. What some of us can't figure out is why some of you want what you purport to want, especially when there are far better deals - all the way around - out there.

    -copro
     
  36. coprolalia

    coprolalia Bored Certified 2+ Year Member

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    Do you know how much it costs to drive over that bridge? One way? $5.00 If you live in Marin county or further north and have to commute to work, forget about the fact that California has among the highest average retail gas price and the traffic sucks. That's an extra $100-$115/month (unless you have FasTrak, in which case it's only an extra $80-$86/month). And, they only charge you going Southbound (i.e., into San Francisco). In other words, it's free to leave. ;)

    -copro
     
  37. nociceptor

    nociceptor 2+ Year Member

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    Nope, the way I see it.


    CALIFORNIA

    [​IMG]


    NOT CALIFORNIA

    [​IMG]
     
  38. pseudoknot

    pseudoknot Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    Oh thank you, Your Highness.

    Your reading comprehension is very poor.

    1. This thread is not about whether or not anyone should want to live in California.
    2. I never said that California was perfect or without problems.
    3. I never said that it was the only desirable place to live.
    4. I never said that everyone should want to live there.

    You, however, can't seem to tolerate anyone saying that they DO want to live in California:
    Why should anyone care what you understand? Why does it seem to personally offend you that ANYONE wants to live in California?

    As you said, "you should, at the very least, respect the fact that many out there don't share your opinion about...the State of California."
     
  39. nociceptor

    nociceptor 2+ Year Member

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    Originally Posted by coprolalia [​IMG]
    you've got fine dining, night life, hot babes,
    -copro



    Nope, the way I see it.


    CALIFORNIA

    [​IMG]


    NOT CALIFORNIA

    [​IMG]
     
  40. nociceptor

    nociceptor 2+ Year Member

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    some reason the thread was duplicated and duplicated.
     
  41. coprolalia

    coprolalia Bored Certified 2+ Year Member

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    People are attracted to California largely for superficial reasons. That will change if/when you actually meet a "real" person (there are a lot of faux friendships out there) who wants a good life for their kids. When you're young, dumb, and full of cum, it may be a great place. But, once you settle down and are ready to start living your life, you'll see that there are far better places to live, build equity in a practice, and raise a family.

    It's all a matter of what's important to you. If you're into superficial chicks who only care about how fat your wallet it as well as nut-job patients who believe anything that isn't "organic" is bad for you - or any combination of the two - as well as paying twice as much for everything in a State that thinks you're part of the healthcare problem, and can't possibly be part of the solution, then more power to you.

    -copro
     
  42. stewiegriffinFG

    stewiegriffinFG 2+ Year Member

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    Pseudoknot, California is just one of those things that requires an intervention by caring people. It's really not good for you in the long-run, and if you keep bingeing/screwing/drinking/shootin'-up/etc, you'll be in a mess late in your life wishing you could do it all over again. ;)

    To the OP: do a rigorous cost-benefits analysis for living in souther california versus living in an equally desirable place in the United States. Choosing to live in a place "for the rest of your life" (or something like it) requires such an analysis.
     
  43. Hawaiian Bruin

    Hawaiian Bruin Breaking Good 10+ Year Member

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    Really dude, just... LOL. Listen to yourself, man.

     
  44. me454555

    me454555 Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    Didn't mean california is the only place worth living, just said that anyplace worth living is usually expensive. This applies to NY, Boston, Chicago, Denver or the nicer suberbs of some other areas in the country. Everyone has a different view of where they want to live, some like the mountains for skiing others like the beach. Either way you're gonna have to pay to live where you wanna live.

    And no, I really don't care too much about cost of living. You only get 1 chance to live and I'm fairly sure I can survive on 300k/yr almost anywhere in the country. Sure it might cost my a bit in the end but happiness is worth every penny. I can rent a pretty good place near the beach for 2500/month and still have plenty left over for savings and pay off loans. I can deal w/out that bmw for a coupla years but I want to be happy in the climate of my choice. I'd rather make 300k in cali than 600 in podunk. Some of you might not agree but thats why we make our own choices in life.
     
  45. me454555

    me454555 Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    FYI I went to medical school out in cali, made some real good friends and know a couple raising kids out there. Once you get out of LA its really a great place to be
     
  46. phillyfornia

    phillyfornia Member 7+ Year Member

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    how much better were the offers outside of california (approximately)? are we talking 50K-100K like someone mentioned earlier? or if you don't want to give numbers, could you provide a percentage estimate? for example, were the cali programs expecting you to take more than a 25% pay cut?


    and LOL @ coprolalia. you must have had a bad experience in cali. don't worry, some people just aren't able to cut it in the golden state. it isn't the place for everyone.

    however, if you are able to "make it" out here, you'll find that cali is a wonderful place. the weather is great and the diversity of people/food/activities out here is unparalleled imo.
     
  47. Tenesma

    Tenesma Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    for the poster who said he/she can live anywhere on 300k/year.... let's assume you want to work for 30 years and then retire... and you want your retirement annual income to be 80% of your pre-retirement income in inflation-adjusted dollars ... you will need to save $7,000/month and already have 125k in 401k in order to do so... you can only pre-tax deduct up to 45k (if you have a sep-ira)

    so, let's say you put 45k/year away into your SEP-IRA
    you are left with (300k-45k)/2= 128k... after tax

    now you have to stuff away another $3250 for your retirement per month
    which leaves you with 89k/year in post-tax and post-retirement planning

    which leaves you with a little over 7k month in spending money...

    based on the following: married with one kid who you are going to send to public school without music lessons, dance lessons, fencing lessons, whatever else...

    one car for you = 500/month
    one car for your wife = 500/month
    one mortgage payment on 500k home (average piece of crap in most urban environments outside of the midwest) [taking into account tax benefits in the initial 15 years] = 2,700/month
    utilities (telephones, gas, electricity, water, garbage) $500/month
    groceries/dining out = 900/month
    clothing = 100/month
    entertainment (one movie for two with a babysitter, once a month - or else your wife leaves you) = 50/month

    Disability insurance (for 10k/month benefit) = 340/month
    Life insurance (2million) = 120/month
    gasoline/car insurance = 350-400/month

    student loan repayment (150k) = 700/month

    total $6,800 - which leaves you with an extra $200/month

    and I didn't include vacations, fixing the air-conditioner, replacing the broken window, etc....


    of course, if you are single and you leave like a resident then you will do fine - if you get married and want a family you may want to re-think the statement you can live on 300k/year and still plan for the future...
     
  48. nociceptor

    nociceptor 2+ Year Member

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    Leave California alone!


    [​IMG]

    couldn't resist
     
  49. pseudoknot

    pseudoknot Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    Regarding Tenesma's post, let me first say that anyone who thinks $300k is barely enough to survive really needs psychiatric help.

    More specifically, you are assuming that the spouse doesn't work and also saving way more for retirement than necessary. You don't need 80% of salary once your home is paid off and you don't have to pay for disability insurance and such. Would it be nice to have more saved? Yeah. Would it be nice to make more than $300k, or $500k, or $10M a year? Sure. But to paint that as a trifling sum that can't support a small family is ludicrous.

    edit: Income tax isn't 50% either...
     
  50. me454555

    me454555 Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    Your numbers are just way off, sorry tenesma. First of all, why do I need 80% of my salary when I retire?

    What am I doing thats going to cost so much $$? I'm fairly sure that when I do retire, my kids will be on their own and I won't be living too extravigantly month to month. My house will be paid off thanx to the 30 year mortage you took out for me. So knock that monthly payment off the books for retirement. Also so will my student loans and saving for retirement. That nets me back almost 6k/month. Do I really need to be saving to make 80% of my salary (240k) during retirement? I'm fairly sure I can get by on 150k/year and still live a very good life in retirement. You also assume that my wife will make nothing. If she makes 60k/year, not too much to expect from someone w/a college degree, we should have plenty of $$ for vacations and extra expenses, especially after you recalculate the $$ needed to save for retirement.

    I grew up in a fairly upscale area w/a very high cost of living. My parents made nowhere near 300k combined and somehow we survived just fine. They have plenty of money for retirement, we took a few vacations, and while we didn't live extravagantly we certainly did ok. If you can't survive on 300k/year your doing something very wrong, I don't care where you live.
     
  51. fakin' the funk

    fakin' the funk ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    Cheaper, maybe
     

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