dima123

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What do you people think on the bill that passed last night? IS it bad or good?
 

apteryx

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Impossible to say. An increase in prescriptions, yet lots of insurance company bull/medicare crap to deal with. Only time will tell, despite what anyone else tells you.
 

vinny808

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There is one thing you guys failed to address. Don't you think there are groups out there protecting the well being of pharmacist?

Pharmacy schools just can't pop out of no where and start mass producing pharmacist. Why are there just an average of 100 seats and not 500 seats for your average pharmacy school? Its because its regulated by the ACPE. They make sure the supply of pharmacist are just right, and not over supplied. They make sure pharmacist won't ever become dime a dozen. Don't worry, there are lobbist out there watching our backs. Yes, new pharmacy schools are popping up. But its because, havn't you heard? The field of pharmacy is growing above average rates. Yes, there may be a slight overage now, but its because all the the 100,000 60 somethings havn't retired yet due to the recent economic melt down. Give it 3 years my friends, then the job you want is for your picking. Think about it, doctors and lawyers have always made good money. Wouldn't you think people would start making their own med/pharm/dent/law schools because they know only what, 5% of applicants who apply get in? The reason is because they can't, they are all regulated by their respective boards. That, I learned in ECO 203 lol.

On a side note "Yes we can.", and I would still become a pharmacist if I made $60,000 a year. A 50% paycut!
 

dima123

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There is one thing you guys failed to address. Don't you think there are groups out there protecting the well being of pharmacist?

Pharmacy schools just can't pop out of no where and start mass producing pharmacist. Why are there just an average of 100 seats and not 500 seats for your average pharmacy school? Its because its regulated by the ACPE. They make sure the supply of pharmacist are just right, and not over supplied. They make sure pharmacist won't ever become dime a dozen. Don't worry, there are lobbist out there watching our backs. Yes, new pharmacy schools are popping up. But its because, havn't you heard? The field of pharmacy is growing above average rates. Yes, there may be a slight overage now, but its because all the the 100,000 60 somethings havn't retired yet due to the recent economic melt down. Give it 3 years my friends, then the job you want is for your picking. Think about it, doctors and lawyers have always made good money. Wouldn't you think people would start making their own med/pharm/dent/law schools because they know only what, 5% of applicants who apply get in? The reason is because they can't, they are all regulated by their respective boards. That, I learned in ECO 203 lol.

On a side note "Yes we can.", and I would still become a pharmacist if I made $60,000 a year. A 50% paycut!
60,000 is great but when school costs over 150k and your taxed 10% of yearly salary to pay for your own healthcare..plus other tax increases it will take you atleast 8 years to pay that debt off if not more..This bill was rushed to fast just to put a check for the president that he got something accomplished whether its good or bad.
 

rxlea

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Since when has the APhA gone to battle for the well being of pharmacists? It is my impression that they don't. And the lobbying you mentioned, what has that done so far? Our colleagues in retail at CVS and Wags are suffering with long hours and little tech help while the DPM rides their backs and nobody gives a crap. The truth is, I don't think anybody is "watching our backs". You think 100K makes someone rich? Ha! After taxes, student loan repayment, a mortgage, and whatever else you need to pay to support your family, 100K isn't much. When the ACPE allows this many diploma mills to operate, competition will become fierce. The sky isn't falling and the demand will still be there, but you better have a damn good CV to get into the most coveted jobs and residencies. Where you go to school will matter and the days of sign-on bonuses will be *poof* gone.
 

vinny808

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Yes, I felt like it was rushed to satisfy republicans. And nope, not with 'Bama's loan forgiveness program :). If not, then bring on the loans baby! Like I said, ENDURE for another 3 years, we'll talk then. BTW, I meant to post this in the other Health Reform thread. Whoever mods this place, please merge these 2 threads together. Plus, we are not talking about working conditions for pharmacist. We are talking about pay. Obviously, working conditions of pharmacist are not the products of the health formation. The working conditions of pharmacist have nothing to do with the reform. Nurses, physicians, lawyers and other health care professionals generally work in similar conditions. Will not get into that though. One thing is for sure though, if it wasn't for the ACPE, who would stop Mr. Phoenix, and Mr. Kaplan from starting online pharmacy schools all over the country? You may not see it now, but there is a DEMAND for pharmacist. Many pharmacist are at the brink of retirement. But projections have been slightly off/ delayed because of the current economic melt down, thus forcing them to stay in the work force for several more years.... the same is true for other professions...teachers...etc etc.

I don't know about you but I can live happily off $100,000 annual household income, in Hawaii too. My first car after graduation will be from the used car lot. I will put 10% in my 401K, and be wise with the rest. Having more money doesn't equate to happiness. I'll be grateful for what I have today, tomorrow, every morning and every evening.
 
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Sugadarlin

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I think time will tell. There is so much that will need to be worked out and challenged that we won't be able to see the effects of this bill for a few years. Hopefully by that time we will have secured our positions ;-)
 
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Did he really rush it?

That bill has been in the works for decades.
 

momoftwosons

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"Our colleagues in retail at CVS and Wags are suffering with long hours and little tech help while the DPM rides their backs and nobody gives a crap. The truth is, I don't think anybody is "watching our backs". " THIS IS VET MEDICINE AND HUMAN MEDICINE...IT IS EVERYWHERE SO WHAT IS NEW??? "You think 100K makes someone rich? Ha! After taxes, student loan repayment, a mortgage, and whatever else you need to pay to support your family, 100K isn't much. When the ACPE allows this many diploma mills to operate, competition will become fierce. The sky isn't falling and the demand will still be there, but you better have a damn good CV to get into the most coveted jobs and residencies. Where you go to school will matter and the days of sign-on bonuses will be *poof* gone." I can tell you that as a veterinarian soon to be pharmacist...you all are financial whiners. We have the same debt, have to learn WAAYYYY more than you and make half (if not a third) of what you guys make. Yet, we figure out how to live. So stop complaining about your salaries.


The reason we are paying out of the nose for health care is because folks can't afford to go to the hospital or the insurance. I went to the ER once. Got fluids, blood work, urinalysis, IV antibiotic and a pain pill. My bill was $4900. FOR WHAT??? However, I do understand the cost is high cuz Suzy Q came in and got more done and stayed overnight and OOPS NO INSURANCE!:thumbdown: Someone has to pay for that. So why not make sure she can pay for her own insurance? To me, the thieves are the drug and insurance companies. How could 7 pills cost $400 (my friends mom has cancer)??? And how could you consciously drop/or refuse a person because they have something wrong with them? Yet you raise the premiums to astronomical numbers. I pay $300/month in insurance and yet when I have a bill for $200, insurance paid $40 bucks!

No one knows how this will work out. To me, if the Republicans really cared, they would have spoken up. However, as McCain has stated...they will be voting no for everything else from here on out. SO WHAT THE HELL ARE WE PAYING YOU ALL TO DO UP THERE??? GET NOTHING ACCOMPLISHED? Republicans want him to fail...so they will let their constiuents fail. I hope and pray it works. Not for Obama or Democrats sake...but for the many who so desperately need to be able to get health care. That is what should be our focus (not the whiney 5 year olds on Capitol Hill) or your $100,000 that might now be $90,000.

*Side note, though doctors make boocoos of dollars they are the #1 professional group to default on their student loans (this was told to us in vet school). This is because they think doctor = rich. Live modest, pay your loans off (or get them forgiven as I am reading here) and then get your Porsche and 6 bedroom house!
 

IrishRxMan

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Since when has the APhA gone to battle for the well being of pharmacists? It is my impression that they don't. And the lobbying you mentioned, what has that done so far? Our colleagues in retail at CVS and Wags are suffering with long hours and little tech help while the DPM rides their backs and nobody gives a crap. The truth is, I don't think anybody is "watching our backs". You think 100K makes someone rich? Ha! After taxes, student loan repayment, a mortgage, and whatever else you need to pay to support your family, 100K isn't much. When the ACPE allows this many diploma mills to operate, competition will become fierce. The sky isn't falling and the demand will still be there, but you better have a damn good CV to get into the most coveted jobs and residencies. Where you go to school will matter and the days of sign-on bonuses will be *poof* gone.
APhA and NCPA send out emails letting their members know what they are doing on the hill to better the profession all the time. APhA has the only privately owned building on the national mall and they use their proximity to capitol hill to their advantage. As for CVS and Wags, that's more a consequence of company policy than government. It's the companies trying to improve their bottom line to satisfy their stock holders but still keep production up. I work for Wal Mart in the pharmacy and I see the same thing happening there.

There is no crystal ball to tell whether this current legislation is a step in the right direction or if it will be the ruin of this country. I think there are many things that were included in the bill that will cause a great deal of harm simply because politicians don't look at all the ways a law can be used before they pass it. Their wording isn't precise, possibly for a reason, and entities put their lawyers on it to figure out how to make it work best for their purposes. I think the bill was more of a political move than it was for helping out the American public.
 

IrishRxMan

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*Side note, though doctors make boocoos of dollars they are the #1 professional group to default on their student loans (this was told to us in vet school). This is because they think doctor = rich. Live modest, pay your loans off (or get them forgiven as I am reading here) and then get your Porsche and 6 bedroom house!
Well put!
 

Passion4Sci

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How could 7 pills cost $400 (my friends mom has cancer)???
Because pharmaceuticals aren't cheap to make. They piss away millions upon millions of dollars for potentials that never even make it to the FDA's desk to say nothing of the ones that do that then cost even more millions.
 

chemguy79

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Because pharmaceuticals aren't cheap to make. They piss away millions upon millions of dollars for potentials that never even make it to the FDA's desk to say nothing of the ones that do that then cost even more millions.
Quoted for TRUTH!

I'm torn between wondering if Americans are completely ignorant or incredibly indifferent about the process and funding necessary to make a drug. If more people had the slightest idea about the number of drugs that fail in Clinical Trials, they wouldn't be nearly as bitchy about the price of drugs. If they want the pharmaceutical industry to halt new drug research, set a price ceiling for certain types of drugs and this will be our future. (This is playing a major role about why I'm applying to Pharmacy school versus staying in the pharmaceutical industry which is downsizing at an alarming rate.)
 

wes011

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I received this email from a College of Pharmacy Dean (I am personal friends with him) and no it is not that school I am attending. All in all, he thinks this is very good for pharmacy. Number 1 is very very very encouraging.

Earlier today, the reconciliation bill was introduced. As a reminder, this is the bill that amends the Senate’s health care reform (HCR) bill. It can only include budget related (cost/savings) provisions. The bill and Sonnenschein’s summary are attached. I am working on a more detailed summary.

There are a few areas worth noting:
1. MTM IS NOT TOUCHED!!!!!
2. Sec. 1101. Closing the Medicare prescription drug “donut hole”. Provides a $250 rebate for all Medicare Part D enrollees who enter the donut hole in 2010. Builds on pharmaceutical manufacturers' 50% discount on brand‐name drugs beginning in 2011 to completely close the donut hole with 75% discounts on brand‐name and generic drugs by 2020.
3. Sec. 1303. CMS‐IRS data match to identify fraudulent providers. Allows the Secretary of Treasury to share IRS data with HHS employees to help screen and identify fraudulent providers or providers with tax debts, and to help recover such debts. Provides strict controls on the use of such information to protect taxpayer privacy.
4. Sec. 1304. Funding to fight fraud, waste and abuse. Increases funding for the Health Care Fraud and Abuse Control Fund by $250 million over the next decade. Indexes funds to fight Medicaid fraud based on the increase in the Consumer Price Index.
5. Sec. 1305. 90‐day period of enhanced oversight for initial claims of DME suppliers. Requires a 90‐day period to withhold payment and conduct enhanced oversight in cases where the HHS Secretary identifies a significant risk of fraud among DME suppliers.
6. Sec. 1405. Excise tax on medical device manufacturers. Delays the tax by two years to 2013 and converts the industry fee to an excise tax on the first sale for use of medical devices at a rate of 2.9 percent. Exempts from the tax Class I medical devices, eyeglasses, contact lenses, hearing aids, and any device of a type that is generally purchased by the public at retail for individual use.
7. Sec. 2302. Drugs Purchased by Covered Entities. Repeals the underlying 340B expansion to inpatient drugs and exemptions to GPO exclusion. Exempts orphan drugs from required discounts for new 340B entities.

Because, this is confusing, I’ve created a “map” of what Congress is doing. It’s not pretty or my final draft but it gives you a sense of things. Reports indicate a potential Sunday vote in the House on the rule that “deems” the Senate bill passed. If passed, the HCR bills goes to the President for his signature. The House and Senate must then also vote on the reconciliation bill and it is unclear whether that will be a separate vote or part of the “deem” vote. Keep in mind that there is no guarantee that the Senate will pass the reconciliation package. So House members are being asked to vote on the Senate HCR bill with the “promise” that the Senate will be able to enact the reconciliation bill.
 

ChulRx

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I really like everything you said, IrishRxMan. As I've just come back from APhA's Annual Convention, I can tell you that APhA IS looking out for pharmacists.
 

PharmEXP

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"Our colleagues in retail at CVS and Wags are suffering with long hours and little tech help while the DPM rides their backs and nobody gives a crap. The truth is, I don't think anybody is "watching our backs". " THIS IS VET MEDICINE AND HUMAN MEDICINE...IT IS EVERYWHERE SO WHAT IS NEW??? "You think 100K makes someone rich? Ha! After taxes, student loan repayment, a mortgage, and whatever else you need to pay to support your family, 100K isn't much. When the ACPE allows this many diploma mills to operate, competition will become fierce. The sky isn't falling and the demand will still be there, but you better have a damn good CV to get into the most coveted jobs and residencies. Where you go to school will matter and the days of sign-on bonuses will be *poof* gone." I can tell you that as a veterinarian soon to be pharmacist...you all are financial whiners. We have the same debt, have to learn WAAYYYY more than you and make half (if not a third) of what you guys make. Yet, we figure out how to live. So stop complaining about your salaries.


The reason we are paying out of the nose for health care is because folks can't afford to go to the hospital or the insurance. I went to the ER once. Got fluids, blood work, urinalysis, IV antibiotic and a pain pill. My bill was $4900. FOR WHAT??? However, I do understand the cost is high cuz Suzy Q came in and got more done and stayed overnight and OOPS NO INSURANCE!:thumbdown: Someone has to pay for that. So why not make sure she can pay for her own insurance? To me, the thieves are the drug and insurance companies. How could 7 pills cost $400 (my friends mom has cancer)??? And how could you consciously drop/or refuse a person because they have something wrong with them? Yet you raise the premiums to astronomical numbers. I pay $300/month in insurance and yet when I have a bill for $200, insurance paid $40 bucks!

No one knows how this will work out. To me, if the Republicans really cared, they would have spoken up. However, as McCain has stated...they will be voting no for everything else from here on out. SO WHAT THE HELL ARE WE PAYING YOU ALL TO DO UP THERE??? GET NOTHING ACCOMPLISHED? Republicans want him to fail...so they will let their constiuents fail. I hope and pray it works. Not for Obama or Democrats sake...but for the many who so desperately need to be able to get health care. That is what should be our focus (not the whiney 5 year olds on Capitol Hill) or your $100,000 that might now be $90,000.

*Side note, though doctors make boocoos of dollars they are the #1 professional group to default on their student loans (this was told to us in vet school). This is because they think doctor = rich. Live modest, pay your loans off (or get them forgiven as I am reading here) and then get your Porsche and 6 bedroom house!
WELL SAID! :thumbup:
 

PharmEXP

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APhA and NCPA send out emails letting their members know what they are doing on the hill to better the profession all the time. APhA has the only privately owned building on the national mall and they use their proximity to capitol hill to their advantage. As for CVS and Wags, that's more a consequence of company policy than government. It's the companies trying to improve their bottom line to satisfy their stock holders but still keep production up. I work for Wal Mart in the pharmacy and I see the same thing happening there.

There is no crystal ball to tell whether this current legislation is a step in the right direction or if it will be the ruin of this country. I think there are many things that were included in the bill that will cause a great deal of harm simply because politicians don't look at all the ways a law can be used before they pass it. Their wording isn't precise, possibly for a reason, and entities put their lawyers on it to figure out how to make it work best for their purposes. I think the bill was more of a political move than it was for helping out the American public.
The bill is not flawless, and even though it may have been a political stunt, I can rest assured that my uncle who was recently diagnosed with MS and diabetes won't have to worry about being dropped from his health insurance thanks to this health care reform...
 

eekOMG

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Worry about doing your job and help people first and foremost.

I'm more concerned about all these new schools opening. As long as there is high demand and need for pharmacists, we will get paid accordingly. Once the field is saturated though, it will definitely suck!

We learned this about trade schools and unions and stuff in econ. To keep peoples wages high you need to always create demand. I don't understand why it seems like they keep allowing new schools to open and pushing out pharmacists.
 

Passion4Sci

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MBkidd

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Now that we know what these insurance companies can do, hopefully new policies will be made to prevent such actions from happening.

The newsperson indicated that only a government ran health care system can truly be beneficial for americans, this is a good thought but consider the amount of opposition against the current bill. If it was to be a totally government ran we'll probably have several states secede from the union.
 

vinny808

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So there are loopholes. Now that they are identified, congress can fix them next time around. Problem solved.
 

Passion4Sci

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So there are loopholes. Now that they are identified, congress can fix them next time around. Problem solved.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHA

BREAAATHE


HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAA.

Wait,
what were you saying again?

The people that get lobbied BY the insurance companies (Millions of $$$$$$$$) are going to change something? Please.

As long as the almighty dollar runs this world (And whatever currency you wanna substitute in there), there will be no real "change". To think otherwise is, sadly, quite naive.

You guys think these loopholes are actually loopholes and not specifically put into place? I doubt that. You have teams of Harvard, Yale, Stanford and other amazing law school trained people working on this stuff. They're not idiots. What they are is paid off, like everyone else.
 

vinny808

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what? hahahaha? aren't there tax loopholes that are fixed every year? hahahha? Chill. Immaturity kicking in. Do you really think something as big as health care reform is going to be flawless the first time around?
 

Passion4Sci

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what? hahahaha? aren't there tax loopholes that are fixed every year? hahahha? Chill. Immaturity kicking in. Do you really think something as big as health care reform is going to be flawless the first time around?
No... of course it wouldn't be flawless.

Loopholes fixed ever year, more loopholes created in their stead.

Rich people write this stuff, man. And rich people look out for rich people. Just look at how much Obama had to "concede" to make the bill work in the first place. It's less compromise and more political bribery when you get down and look at it close up.

Just like Pfizer has its 5 tax shelter companies (good article if you'd like to read it) to avoid punishment by the gov't, there will always be a way to screw the lowest common denominator... always. Well, so long as money rules the world, anyway.
 

Jetninjin

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Quoted for TRUTH!

I'm torn between wondering if Americans are completely ignorant or incredibly indifferent about the process and funding necessary to make a drug. If more people had the slightest idea about the number of drugs that fail in Clinical Trials, they wouldn't be nearly as bitchy about the price of drugs. If they want the pharmaceutical industry to halt new drug research, set a price ceiling for certain types of drugs and this will be our future. (This is playing a major role about why I'm applying to Pharmacy school versus staying in the pharmaceutical industry which is downsizing at an alarming rate.)
I totally agree with you, but that's not how people see it. I think most "why are things so expensive?!?!" people simply don't want to acknowledge that no, there is nothing that you can do to bring down prices and in the same breathe encourage innovation. We can try to explain it til we are blue in the face, but they don't want to believe it and will block their ears at every turn.

The example they ****always**** bring up is this: "but other countries have price controls and you can get pills there for cheap! we should just reimport them!" They don't realize that the pharma companies are cool with other countries (like Canada) paying a low manufacturing cost for the pill -- as long as some other dupe is paying for the overhead. That would be us. We pay so much more because we are paying everyone else's share of the overhead costs. (They of course being too in the red from the expense of their little medical utopias to pull their own weight). If nobody is paying for the overhead, obviously the drug development system will falter. But my friends don't want to hear it. They want something cheap and easy, and there is no letting facts get in the way of their conclusion.

Drives me nuts, but what can ya do?
 

PharmEXP

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No... of course it wouldn't be flawless.

Rich people write this stuff, man. And rich people look out for rich people. Just look at how much Obama had to "concede" to make the bill work in the first place. It's less compromise and more political bribery when you get down and look at it close up.
Agreed
 
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According to this article...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i9xePVcCb-63lXYhosvNsNyPV1XAD9EO55O80

... we'll be fine, albeit a bit indirectly.

Oh and the whole bit about people complaining about expensive drugs... Not all of pharma's marginal profits go to R&D. We forget about corporate bureaucratic waste and the pharma lobbyists who spent $188 million last year. Some of that money could help the research of the next cancer drug.

I'm conflicted because, yea... they're in it for the growth of the industry, but at the same time the free market system can hurt the not-so-privileged.
 

IrishRxMan

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Loopholes will always be a part of laws and politics. People lobby to have the language of a bill be made so that loopholes can exist for those willing to pay someone to exploit them. Money is what makes the world go 'round unfortunately.

I do find it very interesting that orphan drugs are exempt from the reduction in price. Those are the ones that will cost most. Not because they are more expensive to research and produce but because there is a limited scope of people that will be taking them. There isn't as much of a guaranteed margin that can be made on them as opposed to something like Lipitor.

As I have said before, only time will tell if this undertaking is truly a benefit to the American people or just another political maneuver to benefit one party over the other. I hope, for our sake as Americans, the latter is not the case.
 

PharmEXP

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As I have said before, only time will tell if this undertaking is truly a benefit to the American people or just another political maneuver to benefit one party over the other. I hope, for our sake as Americans, the latter is not the case.
I couldn't agree more
 

iBeast

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Pharmacist's are still going to clock in 6 figures or no?
 

PharmEXP

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Pharmacist's are still going to clock in 6 figures or no?
The answer to that question depends on several factors such as on the field of pharmacy (hospital, retail, clinical, etc.) and location, among others. I would say, optimistically, that 6 figures is still totally attainable.