How can an IMG get into Rads?

[dr aaron]

Hello, I am a U.S. citizen studying medicine at a Caribbean school. i have recently become very interested in radiology . I understand that Radiology is very competitive, but is it an attainable residency for an IMG? thanks to any that reply.

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[Osteopathology]

Anything is possible, just look at a variety of programs. Apply broadly and pray. Of course, some programs are more biased than others, but that should not limit you. Do some research about the programs, get some good boards scores and you will give yourself a fighting chance.

 

[KeratinPearls]

You need to get the highest board scores possible. Let me repeat that again, "You need to seriously kick some butt on Step 1 and Step 2." There is no room for error. Your Step scores are the #1 equalizer between you and every other applicant. They can make you or break you.

The Step scores are like money. They both can do a lot of talking for you.

 

[Sirius Starlite]

I'm a fresh grad from King Edward Med univ, pakistan. Plan on persuing Radiology residency in US. I qualified for a Diagnostic rad elective at Northwestern univ FSM, but missed it due to visa issues. I need some guidance regarding MS programs. How far will an MS in biophysics help in getting a rad residency later on? will an MS suffice or does it have to be a PhD?
What other field MS programs might help?

 

[KeratinPearls]

I'm a fresh grad from King Edward Med univ, pakistan. Plan on persuing Radiology residency in US. I qualified for a Diagnostic rad elective at Northwestern univ FSM, but missed it due to visa issues. I need some guidance regarding MS programs. How far will an MS in biophysics help in getting a rad residency later on? will an MS suffice or does it have to be a PhD?
What other field MS programs might help?

Forget the MS. Forget the PhD. Are you kidding me? Do you want to be 60 years old when you finish residency? Considering your FMG status you need to ace the boards. Take the years you are planning to invest in a MS and PhD, grab First Aid, Kaplan books or whatever, and get 250+ on your boards. Once you get your 250+, take the money you plan to invest in your MS or PhD and spend it on residency applications. Apply to every program in the country.

A MS/PhD will show your interest in the field, but if you don't do well on the boards, you can kiss that radiology residency and the time/money invested in grad school goodbye.

 

[Hysty]

What about being an IMG with 244/230 (99,93) step scores and done with IM residency. What are the chances for radiology?

 

[OHMAN0125]

What about being an IMG with 244/230 (99,93) step scores and done with IM residency. What are the chances for radiology?

Why didnt u apply with a 244? That's a very good board score and would've landed u interviews at many programs even if u were IMG (prolly not large programs, but def multiple smaller community ones). Or was this a sudden change in heart from IM? U should probably talk with ur IM program director and the radiology program director and have them advise u in ur situation

 

[bigfrank]

Hello, I am a U.S. citizen studying medicine at a Caribbean school. i have recently become very interested in radiology . I understand that Radiology is very competitive, but is it an attainable residency for an IMG? thanks to any that reply.

OP, I know several IMGs that have matched an big name programs. Please PM me.

thanks.

 

[Hysty]

can we get into radiology after completing IM residency?

 

[bigfrank]

yes. Please PM me~

 

[hans19]

Hello, I am a U.S. citizen studying medicine at a Caribbean school. i have recently become very interested in radiology . I understand that Radiology is very competitive, but is it an attainable residency for an IMG? thanks to any that reply.

There once was a poster on this forum, who, if I'm not mistaken, went to a carribean med school. I remember when he was applying for residency a lot of us were pulling for him--- and you know what? he ended up matching!

Now adays he loves to tell prospective premeds and med students how much he makes moonlighting and how much he is going to make next year. Unfortunately, he might be too busy making money, or simply not interested in sharing his experience with other fellow carribean med students.

 

[Hysty]

hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[bigfrank]

hmmmmmmmmmm

good point, hans! Thank GOD not all radiology residents are like apacheindian!!

Hey, hysty, I replied to your PM.

 

[Hysty]

Thanks BigFrank. I appreciate.

 

[bigfrank]

you are very welcome. Please keep us appraised of your inevitable success!!!

 

[rox]

Hello,

Since everybody seem to ask about their chances here, I'm curious to know what people think of my chances as a non-US international student with 238/99 in Step 1, planning for 2 months USCE in general surgery but know I'm seriously considering Rads. I'm currently involved in a pediatric radiology research, hopefully will lead to a publication.

Do you think I might have a reasonable chance so I should go for Radiology electives in the states? Or it's a very slim chance for a non-US IMG with 238 in Step 1 so don't ever bother with Radiology electives in the states?

I understand there isn't a rule about chances, but just wanted to see what you guys generally think. Thanks!

 

[hans19]

Hello,

Since everybody seem to ask about their chances here, I'm curious to know what people think of my chances as a non-US international student with 238/99 in Step 1, planning for 2 months USCE in general surgery but know I'm seriously considering Rads. I'm currently involved in a pediatric radiology research, hopefully will lead to a publication.

Do you think I might have a reasonable chance so I should go for Radiology electives in the states? Or it's a very slim chance for a non-US IMG with 238 in Step 1 so don't ever bother with Radiology electives in the states?

I understand there isn't a rule about chances, but just wanted to see what you guys generally think. Thanks!

Is your research being conducted in an american institution? This would carry more weight. You have a good step I score. The other factor would be getting 3 letters of recommendation from suitable faculty (preferably american). They may not tell you this explicitly, but a Nonamerican foreign grad will be evaluated on his/her ability to communicate effectively in English.

Assuming these criterion are met, I think you have a reasonable chance at matching in radiology. Good luck!

 

[Chemiosmotic]

I'm in the exact same position as some of the previous posters on this thread.

I'm a 3rd year US citizen attending St. George's University in the caribbean. I am very interested in Radiology, and I will do everything I can (within reason ethically, of course!) to enter this field.

1. Step 1 243/Step 2 This sumemr
2. Good GPA
3. Currently involved in some Rads-related research, not published, but hopeful!

What I don't have is a radiology residency program at my home hospital, and thus I don't have a Radiologst letter yet. It is my hope to do a few Rads rotations with the other school hospitals and try to do an away rotation, and possibly get some good letters of recommendation.

Other than that, I will apply broadly, cross my fingers and depend on making a good impression on any interviews.

I'm still nervous about my chances to match, but hopefully if this is what I am meant to do, then I will find a way eventually.

All the best,
Chem

 

[rox]

Is your research being conducted in an american institution?

No, the research is at a local institute. However, I'm counting on getting a research opportunity in the american institute that I'll be doing the electives in. That would be my best bet.

Anyway, it really means a lot to hear that there's a chance...Thanks

 

[Sirius Starlite]

Thank you for the info. I understand from this that good board scores are still my best bet to get into rad.
Can anyone help me with how i should go around applying for an observership? My US visa expires on march 20th,2009...and I need to get into an observership/externship well before that. Plus, i wont be taking step 1 till november so i wont have any board scores to show in my applic for observership.
:S

 

[rox]

Since you are a graduate, you'll most likely find observership opportunities rather than externships. Why don't you check different programs and see their requirement for observerships? If you get an approval and your visa have already expired, you can apply for another one...I don't think you should worry about it. Good luck

 

[spidermanfreak]

hi i am an IMG in 2nd year of medical school. i did my high school from states and went abroad to do my medical school. I am currently visiting my parents in states as i have just finished my first year. Would anyone advise me what i should do while i am here and rather not waste my time here. By reading the post here, I think i am interested in doing radiology too.......now please let me know how i should be making use of my time.......doing internsips, studying for usmles, studying for 2nd year course????what what??? help me out especially you apacheindian

 

[mosfet]

There are 15 people this year from Ross (a caribbean school) that matched into radiology. So I guess it's possible. But like everyone is saying you have to do excellent on Step 1 and 2. You don't necessarily need to do any research but it helps. Also try to do some radiology sub-Is where you think you have a chance of matching.

 

[Chemiosmotic]

Wow, 15 from Ross? Thats a big jump from last year. I thought they had single digits last year.

SGU had 14 last year, and 11 this year.

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

There are 15 people this year from Ross (a caribbean school) that matched into radiology. So I guess it's possible. But like everyone is saying you have to do excellent on Step 1 and 2. You don't necessarily need to do any research but it helps. Also try to do some radiology sub-Is where you think you have a chance of matching.

I think Ross takes like 300-350 kids 3x a year though? so 15 out of 900ish students isnt that good. Although I think only like 600 end up graduating.

 

[Chemiosmotic]

I think Ross takes like 300-350 kids 3x a year though? so 15 out of 900ish students isnt that good. Although I think only like 600 end up graduating.

Wow...is it that many?

SGU took 407 for my class, and it was the largest ever. With the people who decelled or dropped out from both above and below (makeing the class larger and smaller respectively) I think we are at right about 370 for our class. But I'm not 100% sure how many come to the United States vs. UK vs. the caribbean.

 

[PublicEnemy]

I think Ross takes like 300-350 kids 3x a year though? so 15 out of 900ish students isnt that good. Although I think only like 600 end up graduating.

that statement is meaningless.

there are over 5000 DO students each year, yet in 2007 only 33 matched in rads in the allopathic match, another 15 or so had matched in the osteopathic programs. what does that mean? ~50 out of 5000? does that mean people from ross or sgu have an easier time matching rads than DO's? does it mean anything? nope, sorry, it means nothing. exactly. it provides no information on how many people wanted to do it, or wanted to do something else, etc. all it says is that people have done it, a fair number in fact.

it means that no matter where you go, ross, or sgu, or any DO school or wherever, if you want to go for it, if you get your stuff together, PS, LORS, you do well on step 1, and 2 if necessary, apply well, interview well, it might work out. thats it.

at least thats what im hanging my hat on.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

There once was a poster on this forum, who, if I'm not mistaken, went to a carribean med school. I remember when he was applying for residency a lot of us were pulling for him--- and you know what? he ended up matching!

Dr. Cuts, an SDN icon.

 

[nancee12]

I actually had a question about Step 2 CK. I have a 265 on Step 1, now if I were in a US med school I would not even be thinking of touching CK until after match. But I'm wondering, as a Carib grad can I get away with not having CK done before applying or even during interviews. I know I have to have a pass by rank deadline or something like that, so technically could do it in Jan/Feb. Also, some programs require it beforehand but overall any thoughts on whether I should take it early or not? The reason I'm asking is I don't have any break for it in my rotation schedule but push come to shove, I can take it w/ no time off if I seriously start studying for it while in rotations over the next months. Let me know what you all think, thanks!

 

[hans19]

You are a carribean grad, you will need every edge you can get.

If you think you can do EQUALLY WELL on step 2 (>250) then do it. It will give you an edge over an American MSIV with only step 1. HOWEVER if you think you could fare worse on step 2, don't risk it. Most programs don't require step 2 to match.

For an american MSIV with that score I would absolutely not recommend taking step II. Only you can decide-- but OVERALL I WOULDN'T recommend it.

 

[futrorthodr]

Dont mean to hijack the thread

Hans,

At what point would you tell a US student to stay away from STEP 2?
I was considering putting it off but have also been told by someone at my institution that it needs to be in to be eligible for AOA so I would need to take it in August.

 

[marcus pupil]

I actually had a question about Step 2 CK. I have a 265 on Step 1, now if I were in a US med school I would not even be thinking of touching CK until after match. But I'm wondering, as a Carib grad can I get away with not having CK done before applying or even during interviews. I know I have to have a pass by rank deadline or something like that, so technically could do it in Jan/Feb. Also, some programs require it beforehand but overall any thoughts on whether I should take it early or not? The reason I'm asking is I don't have any break for it in my rotation schedule but push come to shove, I can take it w/ no time off if I seriously start studying for it while in rotations over the next months. Let me know what you all think, thanks!

You absolutely should do step 2. If anything, take it around late august so you can hold the release of scores. Chances are that you will do well in it considering you step 1 score but then again I have seen some one this year who dropped from a 250 to around 220. I took my step 2 early, and was really nervous about doing it early, but it all worked out. Just make sure you do all the NBME exams to make sure you have hit your goal!

 

[hans19]

Dont mean to hijack the thread

Hans,

At what point would you tell a US student to stay away from STEP 2?
I was considering putting it off but have also been told by someone at my institution that it needs to be in to be eligible for AOA so I would need to take it in August.

It depends on the type of program you are looking for... If you are interested in the NAME programs like MGH, UCSF, DUKE, Mallinckrodt, etc AOA will be the norm.

Find out if you really need step 2 for AOA, if not, put it off.

 

[DreamJob]

265+ on step 1!?! If you take step 2 early you should be shot!

 

[Chemiosmotic]

I actually had a question about Step 2 CK. I have a 265 on Step 1, now if I were in a US med school I would not even be thinking of touching CK until after match. But I'm wondering, as a Carib grad can I get away with not having CK done before applying or even during interviews. I know I have to have a pass by rank deadline or something like that, so technically could do it in Jan/Feb. Also, some programs require it beforehand but overall any thoughts on whether I should take it early or not? The reason I'm asking is I don't have any break for it in my rotation schedule but push come to shove, I can take it w/ no time off if I seriously start studying for it while in rotations over the next months. Let me know what you all think, thanks!

I'd say take it, and take it in the summer when/if you have time. I'm also a IMG from the caribbean(step 1 243/99...so it's good, but not a monster like yours) and have been told that not taking Step 2 as an IMG is serious mistake. Its likely that you will do just as well on step 2 with adequate preparation, so why worry? Even a drop of 15-20 points will still have you well within the range of a 99. Supposedly the reason for the normalized score for the USMLE is because the test doesn't have the statistical power to draw mathematically sound distinctions between one 99 and another. Or one 88 and another 88 for that matter. The exam was just not designed with that purpose in mind. It interesting though, because thats EXACTLY what some PD's use the exam for. Nobody really knows for sure, and the people behind the test aren't talking...but since I'm a huge fan of educational theory, it intrigues me.

Either way, in my opinion, a reasonable person will likely judge a 265/255 and a 265/245 nearly the exact same way. A reasonable person may not judge an IMG with a 265/245 and an IMG with a 265/(Step 2 pending)the same way.

Good luck in whatever decision you make!

 

[goforrads]

I am very new to this forum and now I have a very unique situation here!!

I was a foreign medical grad from India and graduated in 1997 and then I took the Step 1 and Stiep2 with scores of 212/85 and 176/76 ( paper based then). I came to U.S as a permanent resident in 2003, never applied for any residency before this. I applied for radiology residency, stupid enough to do that, and of course with no interviews, was offered a psych position, didn't take it cos' my heart was in Radiology. I made a U turn and decided to enter Medical School here in the U.S and the only school which accepted me was a D.O school, I really enjoyed being there cos' I didn't want to leave this profession at any cost. While I was in the second year here, I retook the boards and I was allowed to retake them cos' of the time limit and also since I was enrolled in an American Medical School. This time I made the most of the opportunity I had, Rocked every test in school, got enrolled in the Honor Society, My Boards scores this time 252/99 and the osteopathic board scores 745/99, I was so determined to do it and above all I raised a family with all this. Now I am into my third year clerkships, recently got research in Radiology at a University Hospital, already set up my final year electives at good places, hoping to get a good letter or so, already have a few good letters. I also plan to take the Step 2 in August, 2008.

The question is going by my background, Have I changed anything to land me into a rads spot this year, or do something else, I wonder if anyone has ever been in this situation.

Above all I am a very enthusiastic medical student, very proactive, and although I am 34 now, So what do you guys think !! No previous formal experience in Rads from back home except I was a primary care doc when I was just helping my family out, by doing a job, It is only when I came to this country when I was able to pursue my dreams. Yes, I did look at thousands of Chest films to look for TB.

Help please someone!!

I really don't know, what should I do.

 

[DreamJob]

This dosen't make sense. You cannot take the USMLE a second time if you passed it the first time.

 

[goforrads]

Thanks for responding, I know it seems weird cos' someone would never do this the first place.
But I did it and if you look at the USMLE Bulletin of Info, it is written straight up somewhere , they did actually allow me to sit for it, that's just true!!

 

[goforrads]

"If you pass a Step or Step Component, you are not allowed to retake it, except to comply with the time limit of a medical licensing authority for the completion of all Steps or a requirement imposed by another authority recognized by the USMLE program for this purpose. The medical licensing or other authority must provide information indicating that you are applying to retake the passed Step or Step Component in order to comply with its requirement. If you are repeating a Step or Step Component because of a time limit, you may apply to retake the examination only after the applicable time limit has expired.
An exception to the policy of requiring the time limit to expire before applying to retake a previously passed Step or Step Component can be granted if, at the time of application and testing:

• you are currently enrolled in an LCME- or AOAaccredited medical school program leading to the MD or DO degree;
• you have previously passed Step 1 and/or Step 2 but have not passed Step 3;
• you are expected to graduate from the medical school program six or more years after the date you first passed Step 1 and/or Step 2; and
• you are otherwise eligible to retake the examination."

 

[schan]

Consider doing a fellowship or research at a top notch academic program. Then apply to the residency or just stay 4 years for fellowship... you are then eligible for the ABR boards.

 

[student001]

Hey,

I am a foreign grad, US citizen. I got a 234/98 on Step I, my clinical grades are decent at 3.6 but my pre-clinical gpa is 3.3. I was told to take Step 2 in September.
Should I take it early before i apply or later? I originally scheduled to take it this June but I don't think I'll be able to do as well.

Also, what do all of you think about electives? Should I set up as many as possible. I set up 4 so far but I don't know if that is overkill??
Please advise. Thanks!

 

[hans19]

Hey,

I am a foreign grad, US citizen. I got a 234/98 on Step I, my clinical grades are decent at 3.6 but my pre-clinical gpa is 3.3. I was told to take Step 2 in September.
Should I take it early before i apply or later? I originally scheduled to take it this June but I don't think I'll be able to do as well.

Also, what do all of you think about electives? Should I set up as many as possible. I set up 4 so far but I don't know if that is overkill??
Please advise. Thanks!

You are a US citizen, but foreign grad-- whether you like it or not, you are already behind the 8 ball. The Step I score is decent-- but plenty of US grads have that score or better. You really should aim to take Step II and do very well on it. As long as you have 3 good letters from US faculty you should be fine. You only need to do 1 rad elective. Do more if you still need letter writers. If you do more electives, be ready to turn on the charm... Its going to be an uphill battle, but its not impossible. Good luck.

 

[darkmansaad]

hey i've done a lot of research and i cant seem to find a lot of institutions that let visiting medical students do elective rotations in anything, let alone radiology. if you guys know any, especially Northeast except for Cornell Weill, MSSM, and maybe SUNY Downstate please let me know (and even they charge 2000 dollars a month on top of existing tuition). I would love to do some Sub I's at some nice places and make a good impression....but i would like to know where to start haha......thanks

 

[saanjana]

Hi there...

...actually a radiology residency as a Caribbean grad/US citizen is quite doable....I'm not sure why people are so discouraging on this thread, and everywhere in general....ofcourse you are not going to have first dibs...but do take a look at the match lists for Ross University and SGU...I know Ross had like 25 people match in radiology this year, and so did St Georges.

If you are a strong candidate - you are a strong candidate. Many IMG's have difficulties with residency but this is more because of visa issues and weaker applications. If you are strong, people will take you (if you plan your applications and interviews properly). My impression during interview season was that people who have the strongest prejudiced against US IMG's are your own peers from US schools who interview with you....sad but true....

You have good scores...apply extensively, and interview well. In the end, it will come down to your application and interview skills. Most residency programs would rather take a strong candidate with an excellent attitude from a weaker school, than an average candidate with a cocky attitude from an A-list school...

Best of luck!

 

[Amxcvbcv]

hey i've done a lot of research and i cant seem to find a lot of institutions that let visiting medical students do elective rotations in anything, let alone radiology. if you guys know any, especially Northeast except for Cornell Weill, MSSM, and maybe SUNY Downstate please let me know (and even they charge 2000 dollars a month on top of existing tuition). I would love to do some Sub I's at some nice places and make a good impression....but i would like to know where to start haha......thanks

http://services.aamc.org/eec/students/

That link goes to information on how to set up visiting rotations at every US medical school.

Good luck!

 

[vent]

Hello, I am a U.S. citizen studying medicine at a Caribbean school. i have recently become very interested in radiology . I understand that Radiology is very competitive, but is it an attainable residency for an IMG? thanks to any that reply.

The question is : Do you want to become a radiologist in the US or you want to do a residency training in the US?

The is a small backdoor for foreign medical grads to get in to US Radiology Board certification (which however American residents/students hate to talk about)

Do your radiology training in your country, become a Board certified in Radiology abroad, while use your skill to make some connection in the US and pass your USMLEs. In this case you can become apply for accredited fellowship in the US (difficult but possible), and if you keep your possition for 4 years at the same place American Board of Radiology will grant you eligibility for Board certification in the US.

Believe me this easier than getting into US residency.

For more info check American Board of Radiology website

 

[saanjana]

The question is : Do you want to become a radiologist in the US or you want to do a residency training in the US?

The is a small backdoor for foreign medical grads to get in to US Radiology Board certification (which however American residents/students hate to talk about)

Do your radiology training in your country, become a Board certified in Radiology abroad, while use your skill to make some connection in the US and pass your USMLEs. In this case you can become apply for accredited fellowship in the US (difficult but possible), and if you keep your possition for 4 years at the same place American Board of Radiology will grant you eligibility for Board certification in the US.

Believe me this easier than getting into US residency.

For more info check American Board of Radiology website

I beleive he is a US citizen if he's at a caribbean school, and possibly did college here....I would advice you to just go ahead and apply extensively, and take it from there. Just brush up your interview skills. I don't think its necessary to do a complete residency in a foreign country. Plenty of carib grads get into radiology (provided scores are strong), and 4-5 from SGU/Ross get into Ortho, 1-2 in Rad Onc/Urology/Optho, the likes.

It would be to your benefit to talk directly to caribbean graduates in these fields...you'll probably get mislead by everyone else.