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Well yeah, we would be okay because we got the military that protects our freedoms
How can we get universal healthcare in the United States?
- Thread starter Alakazam123
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What about if our government tried to take away said freedoms?
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Why would they do that? They’re here to help us
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Wow that crazy that we locking up dreamers. We need to just let them be on about they business. Y’all blowin my mind with this and the slavery still going on stuff.
I still can’t believe this racist trump got elected. After we got Obama elected I thought America was different but I’m not that sure.
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You are a great poster child for how the American school system fails to actually educate its students
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Well guess that means we need to fund it better
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That's stupid. We already spend the 4th highest per student in the world. What makes you think more money would accomplish anything?
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Kids are the future, they just as important as healthcare. If we don’t take care of them we throwing away the future
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Rather than spouting meaningless platitudes, why not tell me some concrete changes we could make.
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AnatomyGrey12
Dude you really really need to learn some history. Th government almost always becomes the bad guy. It’s been happening since the dawn of civilization.
She taught you nothing unfortunately. Go read that thread. You have lots to learn.
What happens when that military turns on you? Or we get invaded and they see you as a casualty of war?
Money is not the answer to everything. We already spend tons on education and our public system is largely crap when compared to other nations.
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deleted480308
You are already advocating that the govt take away freedoms. You...in this thread
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AnatomyGrey12
No no, the govt can take away the freedom of others. They would never come for his freedoms.
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Well they used to, I thought that was over but I learned something new thanks to you guys. They need to stop doing bad stuff and start doin stuff to HELP it’s people.
Why is that so hard for these ppl to understand? Oh btw I went down to Southern University and checked it out! I think I’m gonna go here.
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deleted480308
Have fun, meet lots of different kinds of people, enjoy it
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I can’t tell if your trolling or that uneducated....
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....got it....uneducated
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943059
It’s the entire priciple of Moore’s Utopia actually. Utopia meaning a place that does not exist, not a paradise.
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943059
And yet, more deaths are cause my handguns every year than automatic rifles and assault weapons in domestic America. Tyranny is a real threat even in modern society. I do not own guns but completely understand and respect the need for them.
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And why was epipen's price able to be hiked to $800? Is it because of private companies or is it because of governmental regulations.
The issue here is governmental regulations. First to become a compounding pharmacy or a producer of any medications it takes years to get the proper permits, authorization and the like. Next, there is a layer of intellectual property rights preventing any company from entering the market while a drug is under pattent. Finally, there is the medicolegal aspect of someone entering the market that prevents many companies from entering the market.
So don't blame private companies when it is the gov't which has created artificial barriers that prevent others from entering the market. In a really free system, as soon as someone hiked the price, another company would start manufacturing the drug. But that is an impossibility. It literally would take years for another company to be able to make Epipens. And so, unscrupulous people can take advantage. The benefit of a free market is you make these people go out of business.
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Well this helps to show how young and naive you must be to not realize the context that brought about competition for the USPS.
The reason UPS and Fedex came about was because US postal service was so exceptionally expensive and inefficient people were looking for another alternative. And when the private sector entered the postal market, it took off.
Since Fedex/UPS and the like came into being, the postoffice has had to speed up delivery, lower prices, expand hours. If the government were actually as efficent as you claim, it could never have allowed for another compnay to enter the market since it had a monopoly. Your basic premise is off.
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Nope- implicit in that statement (and the rest of that document as well as the federalist papers as well as lockian philospophy from which it is based) is that they are negative rights. You have a right to life such that someone can't take it from you; this is not the same as right to life such that someone must provide the means for you to live your life.
Similar for liberty- the right to liberty such that no one can take it away from you.
Free health care requires someones labor. It cannot be a right. It violates the right to liberty.
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I consented to going to the restaurant. I consented to buying their food.
Me taking part in a consensual agreement with the owner of the restaurant has nothing to do with taxes. I didn't consent to the taxes I pay. Those were taken by force and threat of imprisonment if I didn't let the goverment steal that money.
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deleted927028
Your first line by itself is a proof that you are another Fox News brainwashed neurotic who is incapable of any independent thinking. You are just repeating after Fox News like a parrot. Epipen patent expired many decades ago. When Mylan bought over Epipen in 2007, the Epipen price in USA was $50. Now please educate me which regulation the government passed which caused the price to $800? How come the same company sells Epipen to Canada for $100? They charge $800 BECAUSE THE PUBLIC WILL HAVE TO PAY NO MATTER WHAT THE PRICE when their life is in danger. If the politicians passes a bill today to import drugs, the Epipen will sell for $10.
I just don’t understand why people like you are so afraid of regulations. Only criminals will complain about criminal laws. If you do business in an honest way, you need not worry about regulations!!! Just like criminal laws, traffic laws, you need regulations to keep businesses in order. What is wrong about it?
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deleted927028
I was not born before UPS and FeDex came into existence, so cannot validate your claim. But I am not an idiot to believe that usps was more expensive. Their mission is to serve and not make profit. If anyone that would be itching to increase the price it would be profit hungry people like ups and fedex. If I ask you to mail a paper from New York to California and give you only 50 cents, where will you go? The inefficient and costlier usps or the efficient and cheaper ups/fedex? The answer will clear your mind.
Just for argument sake, let’s assume that private companies are more efficient and the ones keep government service provider on toes, then why all the private insurance companies bribe the politicians to block a public option? In 2008, when Obama tried to bring public option, even democratic politicians opposed it. They even killed the proposal to let people 55 and above to buy into Medicare. Why ? If private entities are more efficient, why we are paying three times premiums in addition to deductibles, copays etc, compared to countries where government run healthcare ? Why we pay 5 to 10 times for drugs? Please educate me.
Look I am a believer in capitalism. But the majority of the Americans fail to understand is that the free market will not work with essential goods and services because they have been systematically brainwashed for many decades. To keep the prices of essential things under control, either the government has to provide them or at least be one of the providers.
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deleted927028
You are calling me young and naive, but you are arguing like a three year old. Now, after going into a restaurant and having the dinner, if you tell the owner that you will not pay because you did not consent to pay before coming into the restaurant, how will that sound? So stupid right? Wont he call the police and put you in jail? You are consuming the services of the country every day from the day you are born. Tax is a little fee you pay, later in your life when you begin to earn in your life. If you don’t want to pay tax , earn less than $12k or move to a country where there is no income tax . Of course, there are none. A simple question, if you guys don’t want to pay tax, how do you propose to run the country?
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Been lurking on this thread for a bit and just can’t hold back on this anymore. They are not arguing Fox News talking points with you. You are arguing against people coming to you with libertarian, not “conservative” Republican, ideals. FN dabbles in some libertarian concepts on occasion, but this is rare. I don’t really agree with either side in this argument, but it’s getting really frustrating seeing you argue that people are brainwashed and spouting FN talking points, when in reality, you’re getting back genuinely well thought out arguments, just from a different worldview than yours. Seriously, you’re making your own arguments weaker and making yourself seem ignorant by not acknowledging this.
Also, I just want to point out that this sounds almost exactly what you hear from Fox News pundits when the topic of police and race relations comes up. Literally, it’s almost word for word.
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deleted927028
Talking about free healthcare, nothing is free in this world. Private companies don’t give the coverage for free. Government cannot give it for free either. Either pay a little more tax to Government or pay five times in premiums to private companies. Smart countries go for the first option.
We are paying three times in premium compared to other countries in addition to many thousands in copay and deductibles. At least give the public some freedom in choosing a government option , it will be a good starting point.
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deleted480308
But with the private option everyone pays all of their fees and if the fund dries up the company closes
A govt option forces one half to pay for the other half and if the funds run out they just force the paying half to pay more or print money....you aren’t comparing apples to apples
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deleted927028
You are not getting the full picture. Low income people already have Medicaid. People who are 65 and over have Medicare. The rest are paying at three times more in premiums compared to other countries in addition to thousands of copays and deductibles. Seriously, what is your problem if you get to pay only 40-50% of your current premium, even if it helps the unfortunate a little bit? Are you that much hateful and stone hearted? Why do people like you refuse to learn and adapt even a little?
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deleted927028
As I said many times before, the politicians should at least allow the people who are willing , to buy into the Medicare by paying premium and allow the import of drugs. These two will solve at least 50% of the issue. In addition to that they should impose price controls on hospital procedure costs and/or build government run hospitals
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You're completely wrong on this.
Mylan can raise the price like they did because of the way the patent works on the auto-injector itself. Its why the companies that tried to introduce their own auto-injecting epinephrine had to make those devices so different from EpiPens.
As for regulations - wrong. Regulations for honest business people mean added costs usually with no additional benefits. That's why most of us don't like them. Plus, there are often unintended consequences. Read this and get back to me: http://www.pennstatelawreview.org/115/2/115 Penn St. L. Rev. 2.409.pdf
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Really? I'm pretty sure food production/delivery/sales is as close to a free market as anything can be these days.
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deleted927028
Let me be wrong. A drug Epipen whose patent expired decades ago gets sold for $10 in India, $69 in uk and under $100 in Canada, Belgium, France, Netherlands etc, but for $800 in USA. Tell me what is your opinion and solution for this price gouging?
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deleted927028
Food production is different because first they are perishable, so the producers have to sell them on time , otherwise they will lose everything. Second difference is that there is no monopoly of producers and there are millions of them. Still a lot of price gouging happening there also , in the form of commodity futures trading.
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AnatomyGrey12
Just because you keep saying this doesn’t make it true. None of us are giving you FN lines.
You are a naive fool if you think this is even remotely true.
Your analogy is crap. Me coming to the restaurant and ordering food is a contract and business deal. It is understood that I will be swapping money for his goods. If I don’t pay then I have broken a business deal and he has every right to call the authorities. Taxes are nothing like his. Taxes are literally, “give me x% of your money or I’ll throw you in jail.”
Seems to the theme with that poster.
Again, you are a naive fool if you think that’s how the numbers workout.
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deleted927028
To explain in a simple way to you, a farmer cannot sell bananas worth of $2 for $800 like Epipen, because first it is perishable, second the buyer is not in a life threatening situation to pay that kind of money
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deleted927028
Mind your language you fool. It won’t take much for me to be disrespectful to you. Offer valid counter arguments or shut the hell up.
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deleted927028
You never contributed to discussion other than one line craps
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AnatomyGrey12
Be disrespectful then. I don’t care. You are a naive fool who presents false fact after false fact, and then when you are literally proven wrong by a well reasoned and fact based argument you tell people they are FN schills. And then respond with another false fact or even worse analogy. It’s like having a discussion with a 14 year old.
And yes I did, you just don’t like facts.
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deleted927028
Which worse analogy you are talking about? Did you read my entire comments on the restaurant analogy? I said we are consuming the resources of the country on a daily basis from the day are born. It is like having dinner at the restaurant. Tax is a bill you pay for consuming the resources and living in a civilized society. If you can’t understand this, I cannot help it. Can you answer this simple question, if you don’t want to pay tax, how do you propose to run the country?
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AnatomyGrey12
It’s literally not. Like not even kind of.
Taxes for things like roads, military, law enforcement are ok. It’s essentially a usage fee. However taking money from some to fund others is theft and wrong. Get rid of the welfare state.
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That's exactly the point we've been making!
If there were multiple companies that could see Epi-Pens (which there aren't because the device is patented, not the drug), I promise you the price would go down.
That's the whole idea behind generic drugs.
Oh, and drugs are perishable. They all have expiration dates.
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deleted927028
We are almost on the same page. You agree that we have to pay tax for some things but not welfare. Fair enough. I don’t want to pay for bloated military. But there are 300 millions living in USA with different beliefs and preferences. We can’t get something that will satisfy everyone. IMO, we don’t have much welfare in USA except for food stamps and Medicaid. When compared to welfare received by corporations and rich and powerful people, it is not even 2% of it. But it is just my opinion
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deleted927028
You cannot equate the shelf life of drugs with food items. But I hope you understood what I tried to convey
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deleted927028
Profit oriented people will rise the price as high as possible if they think they can get away with it. They do that when the consumer has no option to walk away BUT PAY. This is what most people find it difficult to understand. They think that private companies are service oriented and paragon of virtues. I beg to differ, that’s all
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Why not? I promise you that a can of tomato soup at the grocery store lasts longer than an EpiPen.
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No, no one here thinks that.
We think that if you have 2 companies selling comparable products, company A can charge $400 all they want but if company B charges $50 then company A either has to lower their price or go out of business.
Honest question: have you taken even a basic economics class before?
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AnatomyGrey12
Gonna need a source for that one.
Exactly. So going with the option that doesn’t require some people to fund the lives of others is most prudent.
Swing and a miss. Not a single person here believes that. However we do believe in basic economics.
