How competitive are top family med residency programs?

[stupidstuffthrow]

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[AnatomyGrey12]

Anything with the word "top" in it is going to be competitive. What do you mean by "top?" That can mean different things i.e. highest ranked on Doximity, most highly sought after by med students, etc.

 

[JSReed]

Anything with the word "top" in it is going to be competitive. What do you mean by "top?" That can mean different things i.e. highest ranked on Doximity, most highly sought after by med students, etc.

Highest WalkScore® on redfin.com

 

[ciestar]

Didn't realize there was prestige in family med residencies.

Not really sure how someone cannot realize this? Programs at places like Penn are obviously more prestigious than somewhere in the middle of Montana. Univeristy programs usually moreso than community FM.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Not really sure how someone cannot realize this? Programs at places like Penn are obviously more prestigious than somewhere in the middle of Montana. Univeristy programs usually moreso than community FM.

Its family medicine, that really doesn't apply to us like it does everywhere else. In fact many argue that large academic programs are actually worse for us since there are other residents taking all the interesting patients/procedures.

To answer the OP somewhat, the tougher to match into programs are usually the ones that have the fullest scope training. Ventura out in CA is fairly well known for training their residents to do pretty much anything a family doctor can reasonably do.

 

[Gurby]

Not really sure how someone cannot realize this? Programs at places like Penn are obviously more prestigious than somewhere in the middle of Montana. Univeristy programs usually moreso than community FM.

People always hate on Montana but man, if job postings like this don't make me reconsider the possible trajectories my life could take. Work 4 days/week, see 15 patients/day, spend your 3-day weekends climbing in Glacier National Park, live cheap and be financially independent in <10 years... Or go into surgery...

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[Gurby]

Quite tempting honestly, almost seems too good to be true.

I'd bet money there's a good reason they can't find somebody fill that spot... But even so.

 

[deleted645092]

I'd bet money there's a good reason they can't find somebody fill that spot... But even so.

I’d be willing to bet it’s the fact you’re expected to “supervise multiple highly trained advanced practitioners and serve as back-up call” for said advanced practitioners.

 

[ciestar]

People always hate on Montana but man, if job postings like this don't make me reconsider the possible trajectories my life could take. Work 4 days/week, see 15 patients/day, spend your 3-day weekends climbing in Glacier National Park, live cheap and be financially independent in <10 years... Or go into surgery...

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Not intended to be hate. I just picked a giant state that is super rural lol

 

[ciestar]

Its family medicine, that really doesn't apply to us like it does everywhere else. In fact many argue that large academic programs are actually worse for us since there are other residents taking all the interesting patients/procedures.

To answer the OP somewhat, the tougher to match into programs are usually the ones that have the fullest scope training. Ventura out in CA is fairly well known for training their residents to do pretty much anything a family doctor can reasonably do.

True. The community ones tend to be unopposed programs that tend to rank higher in desirability simply because of the opportunities.

But it doesn’t change that the “top” most competitive programs tend to be university based (i go back to Penn as my example, as it is the most competitive program on my current list..). We get fixated on name and prestige, but as you said, these university programs aren’t always the best as far as FM goes because of what you get to do as a resident. Or worse, as I’ve heard at some places the FM residents are treated like lesser doctors.

Whatver, my top choice is a community program soo lol

 

[7331poas]

I'd bet money there's a good reason they can't find somebody fill that spot... But even so.

Yeah, that reason is the fact that its in the middle of nowhere.

 

[deleted967981]

Yeah, that reason is the fact that its in the middle of nowhere.

As an incoming OMS-1 who wants to do FM and is from a rural area and wants to return to one, the middle of Montana sounds amazing!

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

But it doesn’t change that the “top” most competitive programs tend to be university based

I'm going to need you to prove this.

 

[ciestar]

I'm going to need you to prove this.

Clearly ive already proven it is a delusion.

 

[klucket2]

As an incoming OMS-1 who wants to do FM and is from a rural area and wants to return to one, the middle of Montana sounds amazing!

Thank you. This whole notion that literally everyone wants to live and practice medicine in a major city on the coasts is such bull****. Are both of those things true for me? Yes. Are there plenty of graduates who wouldn't touch NYC, Boston, LA, or SF with a 10 foot pole? Of course.

 

[ApplyingThisCycleBurner]

Thank you. This whole notion that literally everyone wants to live and practice medicine in a major city on the coasts is such bull****. Are both of those things true for me? Yes. Are there plenty of graduates who wouldn't touch NYC, Boston, LA, or SF with a 10 foot pole? Of course.

I've also found that a lot of people that want to "live in the big city" have never done so themselves. After four years of living in Boston and having to slog through slush and rain to get packed like a sardine with other slushy and wet people onto public transportation, paying 1200 a month for rent, and becoming accustomed to every meal out costing >30 dollars, that Montana thing sounds like a breath of fresh air.

 

[907914]

People always hate on Montana but man, if job postings like this don't make me reconsider the possible trajectories my life could take. Work 4 days/week, see 15 patients/day, spend your 3-day weekends climbing in Glacier National Park, live cheap and be financially independent in <10 years... Or go into surgery...

Family Medicine in Montana | 402k Income Guaranteed Annually Job at Jackson Physician Search in Montana

Apply for JACKSON PHYSICIAN SEARCH Family Medicine in Montana | 402k Income Guaranteed Annually Job in Montana

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Just a premed surfing the MD student forums...But if anyone is interested, it doesn't mention the specific hospital but there are only 3 hospitals I know of within an hour of glacier and I have shadowed at all of them...From the shadowing perspective at least, they were all reaaaaally laid back with pretty great environments, particularly for raising a family. Hope someone follows that job opportunity!

 

[Planes2Doc]

With more US medical school seats than residency positions available, family medicine isn't as simple to get into as opening a door anymore. With that said, unopposed programs in nice locations, like Ventura County, are probably more competitive than less desirable places.

 

[Splenda88]

Thank you. This whole notion that literally everyone wants to live and practice medicine in a major city on the coasts is such bull****. Are both of those things true for me? Yes. Are there plenty of graduates who wouldn't touch NYC, Boston, LA, or SF with a 10 foot pole? Of course.

Most would want to be within 30 minutes of a big city because of the school for their kids etc... Not a big fan of big cities either but I would prefer to live in suburbia that is within 30 minutes of a major city

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

With more US medical school seats than residency positions available

Not even close.

US MD grads: 19.5k
DO grads: 6.4k
PGY-1 Spots: 32k

There are about 6k more spots than US grads, and that 32k might not count the DO match - I'm not sure.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Not even close.

US MD grads: 19.5k
DO grads: 6.4k
PGY-1 Spots: 32k

There are about 6k more spots than US grads, and that 32k might not count the DO match - I'm not sure.

Ah I see... I wonder why US medical graduates were left without spots after the SOAP then from what I hear.

 

[Splenda88]

Ah I see... I wonder why US medical graduates were left without spots after the SOAP then from what I hear.

Multiple red flags...

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Ah I see... I wonder why US medical graduates were left without spots after the SOAP then from what I hear.

Usually due to personal factors. The match is skewed in your favour as a USMD - you just need to pass everything and not have any egregious behavioural comments on your LORs and you'll match something.

 

[mrbreakfast]

Ah I see... I wonder why US medical graduates were left without spots after the SOAP then from what I hear.

Also, the people who talk their way out of every interview they get in person probably aren't much better at interviewing over skype.

 

[klucket2]

Most would want to be within 30 minutes of a big city because of the school for their kids etc... Not a big fan of big cities either but I would prefer to live in suburbia that is within 30 minutes of a major city

Yeah I agree that most people would prefer to live in either an urban or suburban environment. However there are still thousands of doctors that want to practice medicine in a rural environment, and people like to pretend that these doctors don't exist for some reason. Like "who the hell would want to do their residency in the middle of nowhere?". Well, probably people who enjoy living in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I've also found that a lot of people that want to "live in the big city" have never done so themselves. After four years of living in Boston and having to slog through slush and rain to get packed like a sardine with other slushy and wet people onto public transportation, paying 1200 a month for rent, and becoming accustomed to every meal out costing >30 dollars, that Montana thing sounds like a breath of fresh air.

Who is paying $1,200 a month in rent in Boston unless they have a two roommates in a studio apartment...

 

[deleted480308]

Not even close.

US MD grads: 19.5k
DO grads: 6.4k
PGY-1 Spots: 32k

There are about 6k more spots than US grads, and that 32k might not count the DO match - I'm not sure.

Depends on the year you grabbed data, DO match is expiring

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Depends on the year you grabbed data, DO match is expiring

2019, but it was from the official NRMP website.

 

[deleted480308]

2019, but it was from the official NRMP website.

Then it’s got to be close because even if they excluded nonacgme, that’s only really a minuscule amount of holdouts

 

[ApplyingThisCycleBurner]

Who is paying $1,200 a month in rent in Boston unless they have a two roommates in a studio apartment...

XD exactly.

 

[MSTP18]

I could be totally wrong, but personally I would assume the rural Montana trained FM doc has had more exposure to complex patients than a Penn trained FM doc. Any remotely complex patient at Penn is going to one of the many IM, Peds, or OB/GYN teams, not FM, and similarly for outpatient management, those patients are going to IM, Peds, or OB/GYN, not FM. That's not even considering that they could also go to TJ or Drexel hospitals and docs. Who else are they going to see in rural Montana?

 

[Oh_Gee]

I’d be willing to bet it’s the fact you’re expected to “supervise multiple highly trained advanced practitioners and serve as back-up call” for said advanced practitioners.

but they're both highly trained AND advanced

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I could be totally wrong, but personally I would assume the rural Montana trained FM doc has had more exposure to complex patients than a Penn trained FM doc. Any remotely complex patient at Penn is going to one of the many IM, Peds, or OB/GYN teams, not FM, and similarly for outpatient management, those patients are going to IM, Peds, or OB/GYN, not FM. That's not even considering that they could also go to TJ or Drexel hospitals and docs. Who else are they going to see in rural Montana?

Most academic FM residents rotate on the IM/peds/obgyn services.

 

[libertyyne]

Yeah I agree that most people would prefer to live in either an urban or suburban environment. However there are still thousands of doctors that want to practice medicine in a rural environment, and people like to pretend that these doctors don't exist for some reason. Like "who the hell would want to do their residency in the middle of nowhere?". Well, probably people who enjoy living in the middle of nowhere.

In my opinion it is more of a demographic problem of the population of the students. Most graduating med students are in their late 20's. Probably looking to start families near where they are from or in areas where they can date. Just due to the population skew in rural areas it probably going to be harder to accomplish those things. Also access to major airports, and entertainment.

Once people do have families and settle down, its probably a harder sell to move from a suburb or city to a much more rural area. Where is the spouse going to find a job, how bad are the schools?, how easy is it to access airports for travel or family?

There is a reason why rural america's population is declining and it has nothing to do with people's preference and more to do with economic decline. Recently graduating medical students are hardly an outlier in this trend.

There is a reason why these jobs tend to pay a premium and are still difficult to fill. It is because there are more physicians who would rather live close to population centers in urban/suburban areas compared ones who prefer rural areas.

 

[libertyyne]

Ah I see... I wonder why US medical graduates were left without spots after the SOAP then from what I hear.

People end up in SOAP for a number of reasons, including geographic restricitons, competitiveness mismatch, and red flags. Sometimes you just are unlucky as the particular season may be an outlier in terms of competitiveness for your specific specialty where 5 interviews would yield a position now 10 are required. You literally just have to eventually pass everything to land a spot in FM. Nothing wrong with that, its just the way it is.

 

[VincentAdultman]

I assume very competitive, just like matching peds at a place like CHOP is super competitive.

 

[shifty_ut89]

People always hate on Montana but man, if job postings like this don't make me reconsider the possible trajectories my life could take. Work 4 days/week, see 15 patients/day, spend your 3-day weekends climbing in Glacier National Park, live cheap and be financially independent in <10 years... Or go into surgery...

Family Medicine in Montana | 402k Income Guaranteed Annually Job at Jackson Physician Search in Montana

Apply for JACKSON PHYSICIAN SEARCH Family Medicine in Montana | 402k Income Guaranteed Annually Job in Montana

jobs.jacksonphysiciansearch.com

 

[shifty_ut89]

You..... just made me SO happy.... that I chose full-spectrum FM for my residency and, ultimately, my career. I love my free time, I like being well compensated for my hard work, and I love the rural western US. Cannot wait.