How competitive is a DO in an MD's world?

[sublm128]

I would like to hear from residents and people who have done ACTUAL research.

So I know that its easier to get into DO than an MD. I am somewhat competitive for a DO (3.0, 30R), but not at all for MD (2.5). Lets say I go into a DO program. Assuming I do as well as an MD in my courses and my USMLEs / COMLEX.

a.) when I go into residency, what would my chances be in competing with MDs into a competitive match for an allopathic residency?

b.) How about specialization into the most competitive fields (ENT, dermatology, etc.)

Would i always be at a significant disadvantage if my stats then are just as good as an MD, or would I be considered the same?

If not the same, how much harder would i have to work to get the same treatment?

Would I get treated the same by physicians and patients as an MD?

I need to decide whether to go DO or do a costly postbacc and retake my MCAT. Please help!!!!!!!!

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I would like to hear from residents and people who have done ACTUAL research.

So I know that its easier to get into DO than an MD. I am somewhat competitive for a DO (3.0, 30R), but not at all for MD (2.5). Lets say I go into a DO program. Assuming I do as well as an MD in my courses and my USMLEs / COMLEX.
3.0/30R isn't all too competitive for DO. But you'll get in if you apply early enough.

a.) when I go into residency, what would my chances be in competing with MDs into a competitive match for an allopathic residency?
Depends, if you have a good USMLE score you'll probably get into your residency of choice.

b.) How about specialization into the most competitive fields (ENT, dermatology, etc.)
Most are restricted to AOA residencies. However you could get in to some ACGME if you're competitive and have strong scores.

Would i always be at a significant disadvantage if my stats then are just as good as an MD, or would I be considered the same?

Program specific, I'd say it's probably equal overall with AOA residencies.
If not the same, how much harder would i have to work to get the same treatment?

Some programs are DO unfriendly such as NYU, but if you're a good ass kisser and smart you'll do fine.

Would I get treated the same by physicians and patients as an MD?

Yes.

I need to decide whether to go DO or do a costly postbacc and retake my MCAT. Please help!!!!!!!!

With a 2.5 you have absolutely no chance at MD. I mean to even have a chance you'd need to get your gpa up to at least a 2.8 and then do a SMP for 2 years. I'd forget it and aim at DO only and work your ass off, because if you do, then you'll get into whatever residency you want.

 

[NurWollen]

I would like to hear from residents and people who have done ACTUAL research.

So I know that its easier to get into DO than an MD. I am somewhat competitive for a DO (3.0, 30R), but not at all for MD (2.5). Lets say I go into a DO program. Assuming I do as well as an MD in my courses and my USMLEs / COMLEX.

a.) when I go into residency, what would my chances be in competing with MDs into a competitive match for an allopathic residency?

b.) How about specialization into the most competitive fields (ENT, dermatology, etc.)

Would i always be at a significant disadvantage if my stats then are just as good as an MD, or would I be considered the same?

If not the same, how much harder would i have to work to get the same treatment?

Would I get treated the same by physicians and patients as an MD?

I need to decide whether to go DO or do a costly postbacc and retake my MCAT. Please help!!!!!!!!

Let's say you can't quite afford a Ferrari, so instead you're going to hitch hike everywhere because a the Toyota you can afford is rumored by a few to be inferior to a Ferrari.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Let's say you can't quite afford a Ferrari, so instead you're going to hitch hike everywhere because a the Toyota you can afford is rumored by a few to be inferior to a Ferrari.

i like this response very much. it is a breath of relief for another annoying thread.

 

[patel2]

I would like to hear from residents and people who have done ACTUAL research.

So I know that its easier to get into DO than an MD. I am somewhat competitive for a DO (3.0, 30R), but not at all for MD (2.5). Lets say I go into a DO program. Assuming I do as well as an MD in my courses and my USMLEs / COMLEX.

a.) when I go into residency, what would my chances be in competing with MDs into a competitive match for an allopathic residency?

b.) How about specialization into the most competitive fields (ENT, dermatology, etc.)

Would i always be at a significant disadvantage if my stats then are just as good as an MD, or would I be considered the same?

If not the same, how much harder would i have to work to get the same treatment?

Would I get treated the same by physicians and patients as an MD?

I need to decide whether to go DO or do a costly postbacc and retake my MCAT. Please help!!!!!!!!

a. depends on the field. FM/IM/EM/Gas/PMR/most others has little to no DO bias, but surgical subspecialties and even general surg (MD residencies) has somewhat a DO bias, though obviously it can be overcome with an exceptional app.

b. your best bet for specialization in the fields you listed (ENT, derm) are D.O. residencies. they are ultra competitive md or do residency, but only a handful of DOs match each year into MD residencies of these fields

You will be treated with the same respect from physicians/patients, based on your overall level of skill and competency as a physician.

FYI, as others said, the route for MD with your app is pretty nonexistent. Minimum 1 year postbacc, another 1-2 year SMP, and you may have to retake the mcat depending on what state you reside in, as 30 is on the low end especially with your gpa. It's possible, but the debt/opportunity costs of 3-4 extra years doesn't seem worth it if you can manage to get into a DO program right away, but to each his own.

 

[ozzi22]

With a 2.5 you have absolutely no chance at MD. I mean to even have a chance you'd need to get your gpa up to at least a 2.8 and then do a SMP for 2 years. I'd forget it and aim at DO only and work your ass off, because if you do, then you'll get into whatever residency you want.

this +1000000000

 

[kirurgilaakari]

Another closet MD coming out of the woodwork. Listen OP, the advice given to you by your peers, has been solid. My advice, having already been there, done that.......is that if you have any reservation whatsoever about being a DO; ie: worried about equality, MD vs DO bias, etc, then you need to concentrate on getting into a MD program and leave that DO spot for someone who truly wants to pursue osteopathic medicine for more than trying to get into an allopathic residency and trying to equate themselves to their MD counterparts.

 

[LifeTake2]

DON'T GO DO!!

It doesn't matter what anyone ELSE thinks, you obviously feel DO is inferior. Please leave the application slots to those of us that would like to be a DO, and just move on with life. You didn't make the grades to be what you think is a Dr, so suck it up. Don't compete for a medical school slot you don't want.

/done being pissed at another allo-phile

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Towards the two people above me,
I can only say that the OP is interested in becoming a doctor, as well as logically trying to figure out whether going to DO school will be able to give him the tools to achieve what he wants out of life. Obviously for him right now a DO degree is much more reachable than an MD degree, and obviously there are barriers towards getting into competitive residencies ( It's not his fault he has aspirations). And also, I'm slightly appalled by the comments, such as on how you feel the need to purge the DO field of students with allopathic-tendencies and only allow the people truly 100% interested in being a martyr for A.T. Still. To which I can only ask, how many DO's wouldn't have taken an MD acceptance over a DO acceptance?
Regardless, in my mind, while going to an MD institute is more favorable to most people, I cannot say that a DO school is not going to be any different than any MD school in the nation.

Inb4 flamewar

 

[LifeTake2]

Towards the two people above me,
I can only say that the OP is interested in becoming a doctor, as well as logically trying to figure out whether going to DO school will be able to give him the tools to achieve what he wants out of life. Obviously for him right now a DO degree is much more reachable than an MD degree, and obviously there are barriers towards getting into competitive residencies ( It's not his fault he has aspirations). And also, I'm slightly appalled by the comments, such as on how you feel the need to purge the DO field of students with allopathic-tendencies and only allow the people truly 100% interested in being a martyr for A.T. Still. To which I can only ask, how many DO's wouldn't have taken an MD acceptance over a DO acceptance?

Inb4 flamewar.

I will willingly take any offer I get, as I want to be a doctor. I don't care MD/DO, to me it is a non-issue. If I get into both, I will pick based upon location and likely cost; not the letters.

My response to the OP was specific because the post clearly shows the OP doesn't have an "allopathic tendency", they honestly feel DO is inferior. If you can't accept that a Dr X = Dr X then why risk spending $200K on a degree you aren't sure you want. Fight for what you want, and be an MD.

If the OP, or anyone else, can look past the letters then apply and go where you are a good fit. I am a bit more osteo-thinking in my personal medical approach; but I don't worship A.T. Still; but I also think the MD/DO comparison is the making of neurotic pre-meds not reality!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I will willingly take any offer I get, as I want to be a doctor. I don't care MD/DO, to me it is a non-issue. If I get into both, I will pick based upon location and likely cost; not the letters.

My response to the OP was specific because the post clearly shows the OP doesn't have an "allopathic tendency", they honestly feel DO is inferior. If you can't accept that a Dr X = Dr X then why risk spending $200K on a degree you aren't sure you want. Fight for what you want, and be an MD.

If the OP, or anyone else, can look past the letters then apply and go where you are a good fit. I am a bit more osteo-thinking in my personal medical approach; but I don't worship A.T. Still; but I also think the MD/DO comparison is the making of neurotic pre-meds not reality!

Well I'll admit, that when I first came on SDN I held similar sentiments, albeit I was only in my freshman year. It took time for me to realize that in terms of my dreams and aspirations, going to a DO schools will prepare me and allow me to match without problem. So, that is why I am not too overly offended by the OP, and obviously no matter what being a doctor ( DO or MD) is extremely prestigious.

 

[willen101383]

I agree that OP should go for the MD because he/she clearly doesnt see a DO as an MDs equal. I used to be just as "pro DO" as anyone else posting in this thread...but after a year of medical school at a DO school I am much less enthusiastic.

I feel that if someone starts out on the fence about osteopathic medicine they are going to be miserable as hell at a DO school.

I mentioned this in another thread somewhere...but the things that premeds care the most about regarding DO schools...are the things that actually matter the least in the real world.

There ARE some real downsides to going this pathway...but they have nothing to do with prestige,competitiveness, etc.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I agree that OP should go for the MD because he/she clearly doesnt see a DO as an MDs equal. I used to be just as "pro DO" as anyone else posting in this thread...but after a year of medical school at a DO school I am much less enthusiastic.

I feel that if someone starts out on the fence about osteopathic medicine they are going to be miserable as hell at a DO school.

I mentioned this in another thread somewhere...but the things that premeds care the most about regarding DO schools...are the things that actually matter the least in the real world.

There ARE some real downsides to going this pathway...but they have nothing to do with prestige,competitiveness, etc.

I thought you were going to the most Allopathic DO school. But, now I'm slightly interested, what about osteopathic medicine makes it more miserable than an MD school? Community rotations versus hospital? Some unfriendly programs? OMM/OMT?

 

[desijigga]

Towards the two people above me,
I can only say that the OP is interested in becoming a doctor, as well as logically trying to figure out whether going to DO school will be able to give him the tools to achieve what he wants out of life. Obviously for him right now a DO degree is much more reachable than an MD degree, and obviously there are barriers towards getting into competitive residencies ( It's not his fault he has aspirations). And also, I'm slightly appalled by the comments, such as on how you feel the need to purge the DO field of students with allopathic-tendencies and only allow the people truly 100% interested in being a martyr for A.T. Still. To which I can only ask, how many DO's wouldn't have taken an MD acceptance over a DO acceptance?
Regardless, in my mind, while going to an MD institute is more favorable to most people, I cannot say that a DO school is not going to be any different than any MD school in the nation.

Inb4 flamewar

Going to have to agree with the above post. The OP might be naive and don't know much of DOs, that is why he/she asked the questions. Instead on jumping on him, answer the question and give sound advice. People on this thread need to realize not everyone came into DO school wanting to do OMM and be the savior of the osteopathic world. 95% of DOs forget OMM by residency time, and barely use it ever in their practice. Remember medicare and many insurance companies do not reimburse you for OMM. By numbers about 50% of DO students go into Allopathic residencies, so are we all traitors to our own kind?

To OP save the headache, money, time and go to a DO school, by numbers you will have a decent shot at some DO schools (not all, as there are quite competitive this days, many people in your class will have 30+ MCATS and 3.5+ GPA). Apply broadly, and be willing to go anywhere. Do good in school when your there, do good on boards, rotate in specialties you want to go into and you will match either DO or MD.

 

[sublm128]

Towards the two people above me,
I can only say that the OP is interested in becoming a doctor, as well as logically trying to figure out whether going to DO school will be able to give him the tools to achieve what he wants out of life. Obviously for him right now a DO degree is much more reachable than an MD degree, and obviously there are barriers towards getting into competitive residencies ( It's not his fault he has aspirations). And also, I'm slightly appalled by the comments, such as on how you feel the need to purge the DO field of students with allopathic-tendencies and only allow the people truly 100% interested in being a martyr for A.T. Still. To which I can only ask, how many DO's wouldn't have taken an MD acceptance over a DO acceptance?
Regardless, in my mind, while going to an MD institute is more favorable to most people, I cannot say that a DO school is not going to be any different than any MD school in the nation.

Inb4 flamewar

I was starting to get discouraged by all the haters until I read this post. Thanks for being objective and understanding.

 

[willen101383]

I thought you were going to the most Allopathic DO school. But, now I'm slightly interested, what about osteopathic medicine makes it more miserable than an MD school? Community rotations versus hospital? Some unfriendly programs? OMM/OMT?

It is...which causes problems. Im trying to think about what to say on here....I am identifiable by my username and I want to maintain professionalism.

 

[sublm128]

I will willingly take any offer I get, as I want to be a doctor. I don't care MD/DO, to me it is a non-issue. If I get into both, I will pick based upon location and likely cost; not the letters.

My response to the OP was specific because the post clearly shows the OP doesn't have an "allopathic tendency", they honestly feel DO is inferior. If you can't accept that a Dr X = Dr X then why risk spending $200K on a degree you aren't sure you want. Fight for what you want, and be an MD.

If the OP, or anyone else, can look past the letters then apply and go where you are a good fit. I am a bit more osteo-thinking in my personal medical approach; but I don't worship A.T. Still; but I also think the MD/DO comparison is the making of neurotic pre-meds not reality!

I dont have any personal opinion on the "war between allo and osteo" The two letters are just a tool for me to do my will, not necessarily for prestige. That being said, I dont want to be looked at unfavorably for going to a school that might be a bit easier to get into vs. a school that i have to absolutely bust my butt to get into, and still might not have a chance.

I dont really know about DO, but I feel that that is the same problem the rest of the world shares. The hospital I worked at had about 3 DOs among the plethora of MDs and most ppl dont know about them. I dont want to be viewed as inferior due to my degree, when I know that I am just as intelligent and capable as an MD.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

It is...which causes problems. Im trying to think about what to say on here....I am identifiable by my username and I want to maintain professionalism.

Private message me?

 

[willen101383]

I dont have any personal opinion on the "war between allo and osteo" The two letters are just a tool for me to do my will, not necessarily for prestige. That being said, I dont want to be looked at unfavorably for going to a school that might be a bit easier to get into vs. a school that i have to absolutely bust my butt to get into, and still might not have a chance.

I dont really know about DO, but I feel that that is the same problem the rest of the world shares. The hospital I worked at had about 3 DOs among the plethora of MDs and most ppl dont know about them. I dont want to be viewed as inferior due to my degree, when I know that I am just as intelligent and capable as an MD.

Dude this is what I am talking about. This is one of the most overstated premed concerns about the DO pathway...and it is a concern that has no basis in reality.

Yes I live on the east coast and yes DOs are very very well known here. I understand that there are areas of the country where DOs arent as well known. Once you are a doc you are judged by the quality of your work not the letters behind your name. Furthermore most patients A. wont realize it B. wont care.

Alright? Nobody is going to judge you based on your degree...especially since the classes and pathway are essentially the exact same thing.

 

[sublm128]

Im really appalled at how much some of you cannot follow directions. I specifically asked for objective answers. As soon as I posted this the second and third post i got were assuming i was starting a war between the two. Instead you could have been objective and tried to understand my concerns. I am not spending 200k if I am going to be looked at as inferior - but I am not saying that i will be, only asking.

Some of you ARE martyrs for the cause, and tis is absolutely ridiculous. To these ppl i say go f urselves. If ur gonna tell me not to apply cuz u need that spot more than me, tough !@#$.

 

[sublm128]

i like this response very much. it is a breath of relief for another annoying thread.

why is this an annoying thread (and if it is why r u commenting on it?) i didnt ask u to.

I am just trying to know the facts objectively, and I have only gotten like 2 objective results among the sea of haters.

whatever...

 

[sublm128]

DON'T GO DO!!

It doesn't matter what anyone ELSE thinks, you obviously feel DO is inferior. Please leave the application slots to those of us that would like to be a DO, and just move on with life. You didn't make the grades to be what you think is a Dr, so suck it up. Don't compete for a medical school slot you don't want.

/done being pissed at another allo-phile

ur ridiculous - u have obviously no conviction in life, and get ur rocks off by telling ppl to give up. U should become a premed advisor.

 

[willen101383]

Im really appalled at how much some of you cannot follow directions. I specifically asked for objective answers. As soon as I posted this the second and third post i got were assuming i was starting a war between the two. Instead you could have been objective and tried to understand my concerns. I am not spending 200k if I am going to be looked at as inferior - but I am not saying that i will be, only asking.

Some of you ARE martyrs for the cause, and tis is absolutely ridiculous. To these ppl i say go f urselves. If ur gonna tell me not to apply cuz u need that spot more than me, tough !@#$.

Are my answers not being useful for you? I dont really know how you are going to get objective answers on whether DOs are respected when the question in itself is inherently subjective.

I worked for a long time in healthcare before med school and DOs garner the same amount of respect as MDs everywhere ive been employed.

 

[sublm128]

Are my answers not being useful for you? I dont really know how you are going to get objective answers on whether DOs are respected when the question in itself is inherently subjective.

I worked for a long time in healthcare before med school and DOs garner the same amount of respect as MDs everywhere ive been employed.

I mean...not if ur gonna bash me for even asking. Its an expensive decision, and while I do align more with DO philosophy, i dont regret it if i make less money or garnering less respect. Not saying they do.

Ive just heard this, maybe it was by old school physicians. New md students admit theyre the same, so i guess its an unfounded concept.

 

[sublm128]

I agree that OP should go for the MD because he/she clearly doesnt see a DO as an MDs equal. I used to be just as "pro DO" as anyone else posting in this thread...but after a year of medical school at a DO school I am much less enthusiastic.

I feel that if someone starts out on the fence about osteopathic medicine they are going to be miserable as hell at a DO school.

I mentioned this in another thread somewhere...but the things that premeds care the most about regarding DO schools...are the things that actually matter the least in the real world.

There ARE some real downsides to going this pathway...but they have nothing to do with prestige,competitiveness, etc.

What are the downsides then? can you pm me as well?

 

[willen101383]

I mean...not if ur gonna bash me for even asking. Its an expensive decision, and while I do align more with DO philosophy, i dont regret it if i make less money or garnering less respect. Not saying they do.

Ive just heard this, maybe it was by old school physicians. New md students admit theyre the same, so i guess its an unfounded concept.

Dude I respect anyone on here for whatever they decisions they make in their careers. I have no reason to post on a premed forum as a med student for except to give advice to premeds...because ive been there before.

First off YOU WILL NOT MAKE LESS MONEY.

Secondly YOU WILL NOT BE LESS RESPECTED.

Sure...you are going to find those old head docs who maybe will look down upon you for being a DO...but they will be in the minority. As a doc you will be judged by your bedside manor, how you get along with your peers, your skills as a diagnostician, your patient outcomes.....but you wont be judged by a couple of letters behind your name. DMD/DDS, DO/MD, DVM, VMD....who cares. Are you an effective healthcare provider who is fun to work with? Yes? Good, I respect you.

 

[willen101383]

What are the downsides then? can you pm me as well?

Yeah gimme a minute. I am visiting my parents for my moms 60th b day and she asked me to steam clean her floors for her before people come over later. Being a good son.

 

[sublm128]

I got a plagiarism charge in my sophomore year (5 years ago). since then, i published several papers and done things to demonstrate that I have learned my lesson.

Do you think this will severely hold me back?

 

[MightyMoose]

I mean...not if ur gonna bash me for even asking. Its an expensive decision, and while I do align more with DO philosophy, i dont regret it if i make less money or garnering less respect. Not saying they do.

Ive just heard this, maybe it was by old school physicians. New md students admit theyre the same, so i guess its an unfounded concept.

Unfortunately, there is still a DO stigma, whether people want to admit it or not. It's important to remember that most people are insecure and will judge others, it's a downward social comparison that is present in almost every field and every job you could get in life. Insecurity breeds these comparisons, not a difference in the quality of the physicians. If you are secure in yourself and you can look past the fact that some people (in the medical community) will judge you for your degree (btw, in the MD world this happens with school choice, specialty, etc., so it's not just a DO thing), then go for DO. If you can't handle the insecurity that some feel with getting a DO degree, then go MD, but just know that you will be judged for a number of other factors.

As far as your other questions; it is my understanding that you will need to do as well or slightly better than your MD counterparts to get the same ACGME residency spots at the same institutions. This is most likely not the case across the board, but these programs will likely want to see good boards scores, rotations grades, and some might place a stronger emphasis on DO student didactic grades than MD didactic grades as well.

With all this in mind, the real issue I see on this board and in life, is that people who have lower GPA's think that they are somehow going to magically go from a 2.5 (or 3.0) to honors in everything and get amazing board scores, then they are going to land these highly competitive specialties. These things are not easy to do and will be more difficult once you are competing against the best of your old college classes. Many of whom did not have 2.5 or 3.0 GPA's. These students already have strong study habits and the dedication to do well and succeed in medical school. I'm not saying you don't have these skills, but you need to really think through what you're asking and why you have the 2.5/3.0 GPA (which is low, about 0.4 lower that the average DO GPA and about 1.1 points lower than the average MD student, based your AACOMAS/AMCAS grades), because just getting into an MD or DO school won't magically transform you into a rockstar student, which is what you need to be to land the competitive residencies you are asking about.

As far as the residencies go, you can do most competitive residencies through DO residencies as well, so you can really increase your chance of getting these residency slots, if you're still interested in them when the dust settles, and you have the stats to land one.

Whatever you decide, good luck.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I got a plagiarism charge in my sophomore year (5 years ago). since then, i published several papers and done things to demonstrate that I have learned my lesson.

Do you think this will severely hold me back?

That better have been during your HS years or else you're sooooooooooo screwed.

 

[Dr Oops]

Im really appalled at how much some of you cannot follow directions. I specifically asked for objective answers. As soon as I posted this the second and third post i got were assuming i was starting a war between the two. Instead you could have been objective and tried to understand my concerns. I am not spending 200k if I am going to be looked at as inferior - but I am not saying that i will be, only asking.

Some of you ARE martyrs for the cause, and tis is absolutely ridiculous. To these ppl i say go f urselves. If ur gonna tell me not to apply cuz u need that spot more than me, tough !@#$.

dont be a dick dude.

This topic has been discussed MANY times. Im appalled that someone who wants to be responsible for peoples lives cant do a simple search on the internet.

Will some people think youre inferior? probably. Will some people say what the hell is a DO? probably. If youre only happy going to an allopathic residency than yes you will need to do well, how much better than everyone else depends on the specialty.

 

[sublm128]

That better have been during your HS years or else you're sooooooooooo screwed.

U think so? It was in my sophomore year five years ago, and it was in a philosophy class. I dont think itll affect me that much - i explained that i learned my lesson since then.

 

[CodeBlu]

That better have been during your HS years or else you're sooooooooooo screwed.

I agree. Academic offenses are something that could keep an applicant with a 3.9 and 35 MCAT out of medical school.

 

[CodeBlu]

U think so? It was in my sophomore year five years ago, and it was in a philosophy class. I dont think itll affect me that much - i explained that i learned my lesson since then.

Doesn't matter how long ago it happened. You got caught. Mistake number one. It's on your transcript I'm assuming. And you have to answer yes to institutional action on AMCAS. You're not completely out.

But I can guarantee people here will tell you to go Caribbean or Europe.

Moral of the story, don't cheat, and don't lie. If you do, do everything you can to not get caught.

 

[sublm128]

Doesn't matter how long ago it happened. You got caught. Mistake number one. It's on your transcript I'm assuming. And you have to answer yes to institutional action on AMCAS. You're not completely out.

But I can guarantee people here will tell you to go Caribbean or Europe.

Moral of the story, don't cheat, and don't lie. If you do, do everything you can to not get caught.

its on my application but not on my transcript. Ive heard that if you explain yourself well then it wouldnt be that big a deal.

Im talkin about do anyway. Not for amcas, i know im screwed for md schools.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

its on my application but not on my transcript. Ive heard that if you explain yourself well then it wouldnt be that big a deal.

Im talkin about do anyway. Not for amcas, i know im screwed for md schools.

DO schools aren't going to be very happy accepting someone with a plagerism charge. Hell if you were going to UVA or other larger Eastern Coast schools you'd be straight out expelled if you were caught.

 

[patel2]

Unfortunately, there is still a DO stigma, whether people want to admit it or not. It's important to remember that most people are insecure and will judge others, it's a downward social comparison that is present in almost every field and every job you could get in life. Insecurity breeds these comparisons, not a difference in the quality of the physicians. If you are secure in yourself and you can look past the fact that some people (in the medical community) will judge you for your degree (btw, in the MD world this happens with school choice, specialty, etc., so it's not just a DO thing), then go for DO. If you can't handle the insecurity that some feel with getting a DO degree, then go MD, but just know that you will be judged for a number of other factors.


Whatever you decide, good luck.

agreed; physicians/the public will also judge your specialty and on a personal level, you need to be secure with yourself and your decisions.

The public won't know the difference between a radiologist and the community college radiation technologist...I know kids on facebook who state they are studying 'radiology' in community college. Most people have no idea a psychiatrist is an MD, and think it is an interchangeable term with psychologist. The general public may think anesthesia is a joke and that anyone can do it, and may confuse you with the nurse anesthetists. The FM guys might view the specialists as greedy and in it for the money. The Derm guys might see primary care as inferior docs academically. Some docs view EM as glorified triage nurses. Many in the general public will not appreciate your 8-12 years of training and hard work at all, and see doctors all as greedy, overpaid and only in it for the money.

So yes, some people will indeed judge your DO degree. But they'll also judge you for your specialty choice (probably moreso). At some point you have to balance the pros/cons of going the DO route in your situation (3-4 yrs more of schooling on a longshot MD versus your perceived stigma of attaining a DO). And so if you think it's worth spending that time improving, and it is your dream to be an MD, more power to you...but remember, it won't get you all the respect in the world and if you think no physician/staff/member of the community will ever look down or judge you for one reason or another, think again. Whatever you do, be happy with your choices, have thick skin, and buy a used truck to haul all your hard earned money straight to the bank.

 

[LifeTake2]

agree in that physicians/the public will also judge your specialty and on a personal level, you need to be secure with yourself and your decisions.

AMEN. Most patients in this world couldn't tell you the difference between an intern and an attending. If you say, "Hi I'm doctor X", that is far as they go. And more importantly, as far as many of them care to know.

 

[CodeBlu]

This thread is going down in Pre-Allo too... what is going on today.

Is today, National Let's Talk About MD/DO again, for the 3000th time.

 

[sublm128]

so then now im screwed even with my stats (3.2, 30)? I thought this was relatively competitive.

All because i made a mistake five years ago. I mean WTF man? seriously?

 

[CodeBlu]

so then now im screwed even with my stats (3.2, 30)? I thought this was relatively competitive.

All because i made a mistake five years ago. I mean WTF man? seriously?

You might not be screwed. I don't know. You have to apply to find out.

That's all I can say. Maybe try asking WAMC, so someone like Catalystik can give you a better answer.

 

[TriagePreMed]

so then now im screwed even with my stats (3.2, 30)? I thought this was relatively competitive.

All because i made a mistake five years ago. I mean WTF man? seriously?

You're fine with a 3.2. The average Osteopathic is 3.47. Your GPA still falls within the 10-90 range. If you have a GPA lower than 3.0, it could be a problem. The 30 is well above the average GPA.

 

[ModusProbandi]

The 30 is well above the average GPA.

I only have a 29.0 GPA, is that good enough?

 

[sublm128]

You're fine with a 3.2. The average Osteopathic is 3.47. Your GPA still falls within the 10-90 range. If you have a GPA lower than 3.0, it could be a problem. The 30 is well above the average GPA.

That wasnt the point though. I have a plagiarism charge from 5 years ago.

 

[Journey2become]

That wasn't the point though. I have a plagiarism charge from 5 years ago.

Well, I'm not authority on the issue, but I don't know how to quote from other threads .
Basicly, LizzyM (school admin) on the issue of plagiarism, "As long as the number of applicants to medical school is twice the number of seats, there will be no reason at all to consider an applicant who has a record of academic dishonesty."

Here's the link to that thread...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=817370&page=2

 

[sublm128]

Well, I'm not authority on the issue, but I don't know how to quote from other threads .
Basicly, LizzyM (school admin) on the issue of plagiarism, "As long as the number of applicants to medical school is twice the number of seats, there will be no reason at all to consider an applicant who has a record of academic dishonesty."

Here's the link to that thread...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=817370&page=2

that was for one of the top md programs in the country, where she is an adcomm

 

[PED05]

With a 2.5 you have absolutely no chance at MD. I mean to even have a chance you'd need to get your gpa up to at least a 2.8 and then do a SMP for 2 years. I'd forget it and aim at DO only and work your ass off, because if you do, then you'll get into whatever residency you want.

 

[PED05]

agreed; physicians/the public will also judge your specialty and on a personal level, you need to be secure with yourself and your decisions.

The public won't know the difference between a radiologist and the community college radiation technologist...I know kids on facebook who state they are studying 'radiology' in community college. Most people have no idea a psychiatrist is an MD, and think it is an interchangeable term with psychologist. The general public may think anesthesia is a joke and that anyone can do it, and may confuse you with the nurse anesthetists. The FM guys might view the specialists as greedy and in it for the money. The Derm guys might see primary care as inferior docs academically. Some docs view EM as glorified triage nurses. Many in the general public will not appreciate your 8-12 years of training and hard work at all, and see doctors all as greedy, overpaid and only in it for the money.

So yes, some people will indeed judge your DO degree. But they'll also judge you for your specialty choice (probably moreso). At some point you have to balance the pros/cons of going the DO route in your situation (3-4 yrs more of schooling on a longshot MD versus your perceived stigma of attaining a DO). And so if you think it's worth spending that time improving, and it is your dream to be an MD, more power to you...but remember, it won't get you all the respect in the world and if you think no physician/staff/member of the community will ever look down or judge you for one reason or another, think again. Whatever you do, be happy with your choices, have thick skin, and buy a used truck to haul all your hard earned money straight to the bank.

This is very good advice.

 

[spiffybob57]

There ARE some real downsides to going this pathway...but they have nothing to do with prestige,competitiveness, etc.

Could you put me on the list of people you're going to PM about this?
Please and thank you!

 

[pancakesyrup]

I would like to hear from residents and people who have done ACTUAL research.

So I know that its easier to get into DO than an MD. I am somewhat competitive for a DO (3.0, 30R)

No you aren't. With that GPA, you need a postbac of some sort. Your MCAT is fine.