How difficult is it to match psychiatry?

[Corali]

Psychiatry is one of the specialties I am the most interested in, and I've been hearing a lot of contradictory opinions about how hard it is to match. I know that it has conventionally been one of the least competitive residencies, but I just saw a data sheet the other day in which psych was right beneath dermatology in terms of competitiveness. Has psychiatry just had a huge leap in competitiveness over the past few years, and is it expected to be even more competitive to match in, say, 4 years?

(Not sure if this is the right forum for this or not...but I feel weird posting in the med student forum as a pre-med lol)

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[ciestar]

It is nowhere near close to derm lol
But yes, over the past few years psych has gotten more competitive

 

[Engrailed]

I feel there will be a greater demand for it due to increasing mental health problems

 

[sundevilnontrad]

It is nowhere near close to derm lol
But yes, over the past few years psych has gotten more competitive

Why?

 

[u_raptor]

If the sheet you looked at was in percentage of student class that matched it, I wonder if it would have anything do with the no. That apply for it? If you have 100 students but only one applies and gets in, that would show a 1% yes?

So is psychiatry truly competitive, or is there not a lot of people that go into it?

 

[ciestar]

I feel there will be a greater demand for it due to increasing mental health problems

That doesn’t increase residency slots for it

 

[ciestar]

Why?

Why what?
If asking why is it more competitive, well, people discovered psych has a pretty good lifestyle. And they get paid a good amount.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

Specialties become popular but popularity can also decline . One year ent had more spots then people then the next year more people applied . Radiation oncology used to be competitive but over surplus .

 

[Engrailed]

That doesn’t increase residency slots for it

I know. I mean to say is the increased competitiveness due to demand vs supply? If more ppl want to go into it bc of increasing depression/mental health problems, and few spots. ——> more competitive

 

[BorderlineQueen]

I know. I mean to say is the increased competitiveness due to demand vs supply? If more ppl want to go into it bc of increasing depression/mental health problems, and few spots. ——> more competitive

More people want to get in because millennials are all about the lifestyle. IMHO

 

[ciestar]

If the sheet you looked at was in percentage of student class that matched it, I wonder if it would have anything do with the no. That apply for it? If you have 100 students but only one applies and gets in, that would show a 1% yes?

So is psychiatry truly competitive, or is there not a lot of people that go into it?

In 2019, there were 1740 psych spots available and 1720 were filled.

 

[ciestar]

I know. I mean to say is the increased competitiveness due to demand vs supply? If more ppl want to go into it bc of increasing depression/mental health problems, and few spots. ——> more competitive

More people want to get in because millennials are all about the lifestyle. IMHO

This.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

This.

Although if psych becomes the new derm I hope derm becomes super uncompetitive . Which will probably never happen but it’s a dream.

 

[u_raptor]

In 2019, there were 1740 psych spots available and 1720 were filled.

So then as it stands it isn't super competitive because there are still unfilled spots? Sorry if this is a stupid question, I haven't really gotten around to understanding the match and residency spots yet

 

[ciestar]

Although if psych becomes the new derm I hope derm becomes super uncompetitive . Which will probably never happen but it’s a dream.

Won’t happen. If you look at the match data from the most recent match, there were about 500 (pgy-1 and pgy-2) derm spots. There were 1720 psych spots. Psych would have a long way to go.

 

[ciestar]

So then as it stands it isn't super competitive because there are still unfilled spots? Sorry if this is a stupid question, I haven't really gotten around to understanding the match and residency spots yet

No, it doesn’t mean that necessarily. These could be spots in undesirable programs or whatever other reason. I see a few derm spots that didn’t get filled in the most recent match.. soo

Psych is still plenty attainable if you’re a decent applicant. It just isn’t that “gimme” specialty like it used to be.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

No, it doesn’t mean that necessarily. These could be spots in undesirable programs or whatever other reason. I see a few derm spots that didn’t get filled in the most recent match.. soo

Psych is still plenty attainable if you’re a decent applicant. It just isn’t that “gimme” specialty like it used to be.

Very true psych is seen as competitive now because mostly average students get in . But like 5-20+ years ago it was all mostly people who did not have the scores to match into anything else expect psych.

 

[Corali]

The thing I was referring to was this on Reddit based on residency match data from 2018 grads, in case you were wondering. I don't know, it just surprised me and as someone mostly interested in primary care, neuro and psych I was thinking that I wouldn't have an issue getting into the specialty of my choice after med school... now I might have to rethink that a bit :/

 

[BorderlineQueen]

The thing I was referring to was this on Reddit based on residency match data from 2018 grads, in case you were wondering. I don't know, it just surprised me and as someone mostly interested in primary care, neuro and psych I was thinking that I wouldn't have an issue getting into the specialty of my choice after med school... now I might have to rethink that a bit :/

It’s reditt lol . By the time you’re in med school things might change as specialty competitiveness varies by year . Ortho a very long time ago was super easy to match . Now it’s tough to match. Also new psych spots added yearly because we desperately need psychiatrists.

 

[ciestar]

The thing I was referring to was this on Reddit based on residency match data from 2018 grads, in case you were wondering. I don't know, it just surprised me and as someone mostly interested in primary care, neuro and psych I was thinking that I wouldn't have an issue getting into the specialty of my choice after med school... now I might have to rethink that a bit :/

You’d have no issues with neuro, peds/fm/im

 

[Select All That Apply]

@Corali Out of curiosity what is the difference between psychiatry and neurology in a clinical setting. Then, what personal attributes are drawing you to consider either field.

Edit: You are not allowed to read the last paragraph of the post below mine.

 

[Medic741]

Here are 2 of the reasons why psych is getting more competitive:

1. You don’t have to deal with things that are ‘gross’ which most problems in medicine are. Did enough time in EMS for medicine to not be exciting, it’s a job like anything else is.

2. You can make $3-400/h doing cash only outpatient on your own schedule with hardly any overhead

As an aside it’s surprisingly interesting and lots of different opportunities within psych like forensics, peds, inpatient adult, consult, outpatient MED management or outpatient therapy. Lots you can do with more flexibility than most fields

 

[Medic741]

The thing I was referring to was this on Reddit based on residency match data from 2018 grads, in case you were wondering. I don't know, it just surprised me and as someone mostly interested in primary care, neuro and psych I was thinking that I wouldn't have an issue getting into the specialty of my choice after med school... now I might have to rethink that a bit :/

Realistically you don’t really have to worry about this. Once you get into Med school do some research, do ok on step and all these doors will be open to you.

When you start school put on some gas, hustle a little bit and you can make whatever hopes/dreams you have happen if you plan a little and work for them.

 

[Corali]

@Corali Out of curiosity what is the difference between psychiatry and neurology in a clinical setting. Then, what personal attributes are drawing you to consider either field.

Edit: You are not allowed to read the last paragraph of the post below mine.

Psychiatrists and neurologists generally treat different sorts of conditions; there's definitely some overlap (e.g. Alzheimer's) but for the most part there's a decent divide (mood/behavioral disorders vs. neurodegenerative disorders, epilepsy, etc). I believe both specialties are certified by the same board though, and I know psych residents typically have to go through some neurology training their first year as well (please, someone with more knowledge than me correct me if I'm wrong lol). For me personally, I'm drawn to both fields because of my interest in neuroscience (which is what I study in UG); I'd need to get some more experience in neurology/psychiatry clinical settings before making a real decision though.

 

[Select All That Apply]

Psychiatrists and neurologists generally treat different sorts of conditions; there's definitely some overlap (e.g. Alzheimer's) but for the most part there's a decent divide (mood/behavioral disorders vs. neurodegenerative disorders, epilepsy, etc). I believe both specialties are certified by the same board though, and I know psych residents typically have to go through some neurology training their first year as well (please, someone with more knowledge than me correct me if I'm wrong lol). For me personally, I'm drawn to both fields because of my interest in neuroscience (which is what I study in UG); I'd need to get some more experience in neurology/psychiatry clinical settings before making a real decision though.

Solid response. You might be interested in checking this thread.

 

[allantois]

I’ve seen a neuropsychiatrist (neuro specialty) doing cash only psych near me. Might be another backdoor into psych should things get super competitive

 

[u_raptor]

You cannot tell anything from looking at match per class at a specific school. You have to look at the matching data overall via the NRMP Data. As with everything else in this process from applying to board certification, there are reams of data to look at. Additionally looking NRMP Charting Outcomes will give you as much detail on probability of matching as anything else. Lastly. the Program Directors survey may help. It should also be noted that psychiatry is one of the top 5 residency specialities that US IMGs go into, indicating it is less competitve

-The number of Psychiatry positions has grown every year since 2008. The 1,740 positions offered in 2019 was a 62.8 percent increase over 2008.
-The proportion of U.S. seniors matching in Psychiatry (5.9%) has increased modestly but consistently over the past five years (Table 10).

Awesome! Thanks so much. More data to check out

 

[BorderlineQueen]

I’ve seen a neuropsychiatrist (neuro specialty) doing cash only psych near me. Might be another backdoor into psych should things get super competitive

FYI neuropsychiatry is a subspecialty of psychiatry. So before one becomes a neuropsychiatrist one needs to do a psych residency first.

 

[allantois]

FYI neuropsychiatry is a subspecialty of psychiatry. So before one becomes a neuropsychiatrist one needs to do a psych residency first.

Behavioral Neurology and Neuropsychiatry is a non-ACGME fellowship for neurologists. Perhaps, some programs also take psychiatrists

 

[RJ McReady]

If you are applying for a psychiatry residency:
Take your left index and middle fingers and place them on the right side of your neck, in line with the front of your ear just below the jaw.
Do you feel a pulsing sensation?
If yes, then you will match in psychiatry.

 

[ciestar]

If you are applying for a psychiatry residency:
Take your left index and middle fingers and place them on the right side of your neck, in line with the front of your ear just below the jaw.
Do you feel a pulsing sensation?
If yes, then you will match in psychiatry.

Funny, 10.5% of those that applied psych as their only choice in 2019 did NOT much psych. Only derm, neurosurgery, ortho, ENT, and (surprisingly) OB had more go unmatched in their preferred specialty.

Gone are the days that psych is seen as the cakewalk specialty. It just isn’t.

If you’re competitive, yeah, you’ll match. You can’t go all in on psych with bad scores or red flags anymore.

 

[D.O.noHarm]

There is so much misinformation in this thread it is sad.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

There is so much misinformation in this thread it is sad.

What misinformation? Tell us what you mean?

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

Imagine getting your score back from step 1 or comlex and your face just hits the floor. Then you remind yourself that psychiatry is always an option...

 

[deleted804295]

More people want to get in because millennials are all about the lifestyle. IMHO

Yes because we have to deal with the highest ever debt levels from education, and we had to watch a recession during our childhood which forced us to learn to deal with scarcity and lack of security at young ages.

 

[deleted804295]

While psych is great why go the medicine route to do it? You can prescribe psych meds and do all the stuff psychiatrists do with much easier and less competitive paths.

It's one of the few fields in medicine that have to worry about being outcompeted by mid levels. If more people apply to psych residencies and the market becomes inflated kiss your PP cash scheme goodbye

Edit: For all of you who are banking on psych being secure because more people care about mental health- understand that in the event of a recession mental health appointments are one of the first things to go. This includes other lifestyle specialties like derm, but it's something to consider along with the other paths that one can go to practice psych that can make the market inflated.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

While psych is great why go the medicine route to do it? You can prescribe psych meds and do all the stuff psychiatrists do with much easier and less competitive paths.

It's one of the few fields in medicine that have to worry about being outcompeted by mid levels. If more people apply to psych residencies and the market becomes inflated kiss your PP cash scheme goodbye

Lol my other option is a clinical psych PhD program which is highly competitive. No debt from my funded PhD and then I can pursue RXP training. No debt and I can also have a cash pay practice.

 

[deleted804295]

Lol my other option is a clinical psych PhD program which is highly competitive. No debt from my funded PhD and then I can pursue RXP training. No debt and I can also have a cash pay practice.

Very smart. Unless you can see yourself in other specialties in medicine sometimes it's better to take other paths

 

[BorderlineQueen]

Very smart. Unless you can see yourself in other specialties in medicine sometimes it's better to take other paths

Yeah I think it's a good path. I'd be okay with Neuro and IM but not really. Only think is I hope I get into the PhD program and I also hate doing research but for being a full funded program and 22k year in grad school that's really good. After RXP training I can do meds, therapy and neuro and psychological evaluation.

 

[deleted804295]

Yeah I think it's a good path. I'd be okay with Neuro and IM but not really. Only think is I hope I get into the PhD program and I also hate doing research but for being a full funded program and 22k year in grad school that's really good. After RXP training I can do meds, therapy and neuro and psychological evaluation.

Otherwise you could look into Psy.D. I think they may be less competitive but the tradeoff is debt.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

Otherwise you could look into Psy.D. I think they may be less competitive but the tradeoff is debt.

I definitely don't want the debt of Psy.D. That's why I'm not going down that path.

 

[kfcchikin]

I know. I mean to say is the increased competitiveness due to demand vs supply? If more ppl want to go into it bc of increasing depression/mental health problems, and few spots. ——> more competitive

Aren't their salaries also increasing because most practicing psychiatrists are older?

Ugh those lifestyle points though...and it really is such a fascinating specialty. It better become uncompetitive ASAP lol

Yeah I think it's a good path. I'd be okay with Neuro and IM but not really. Only think is I hope I get into the PhD program and I also hate doing research but for being a full funded program and 22k year in grad school that's really good. After RXP training I can do meds, therapy and neuro and psychological evaluation.

Forget the quote I'm just baffled at how quickly that Dr. Phil selfie was memed to perfection. I have never seen someone become a sex symbol as swiftly and gracefully as him and I really appreciate you making it your icon...

 

[BorderlineQueen]

Aren't their salaries also increasing because most practicing psychiatrists are older?

Ugh those lifestyle points though...and it really is such a fascinating specialty. It better become uncompetitive ASAP lol



Forget the quote I'm just baffled at how quickly that Dr. Phil selfie was memed to perfection. I have never seen someone become a sex symbol as swiftly and gracefully as him and I really appreciate you making it your icon...

Thanks I saw it and I'm like this needs to be my new profile pic.