Dr. Wall$treet

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Ok i mean i know harvard is surely Tier 1 etc. but how do you know which school is which tier? like forexample what is Tufts v. albany or something.. where do u find this info? ok thanks!
 

lola

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those not ranked in the top 50 are tier 3.
 
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chef

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From talking w/ PD's of various programs, they rate the schools like this: Top 15 schools is Tier 1, then Tier 2 is schools w/ some national name recognition, then Tier 3 is all the other schools.
 

Ninjaboy

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Another easy way is to look at the tuition. The schools with higher tuition are Tier 1. You pay for what you get. At least that's what one of my friends at an out-of-state private school says.
 

tBw

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You can also tell by the order in which you receive their secondaries. Generally, the more prestigious the institute, the slower they are to let you know....

note that MCP therefore went way up in the ratings when it became Drexel ;)
 

doctor girl

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The poor guy asks a question. ;)

Originally posted by chef
From talking w/ PD's of various programs, they rate the schools like this: Top 15 schools is Tier 1, then Tier 2 is schools w/ some national name recognition, then Tier 3 is all the other schools.
I think this sounds about right...
 

colorado_1

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i'd make sure i asked both interviewers if there are two. then, i'd also make sure i mailed the question to the admissions director prior to my interview if i was given one just to make sure we are all clear before i show up to interview. . . while you're at it, you might want to drop by their teaching hospital and drill the attendings on what makes it worth your while to end up there.

i know i'm being sarcastic. but if you are concerned about these matters you better hide it from anyone who might interview you. you will insult them, and insult yourself.

pick a school who has a philosophy that matches with yours . pick a school in a geographical area you may want to practice in. . . and remember in the end it doesn't matter what schools you pick, it matters which schools pick you.
 

Street Philosopher

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it's based on some arbitrary cut off you decide on. heavily influenced by usnews rankings for a lot of people i'd imagine.
 
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Dr. Wall$treet

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hey thanks everyone. I by no means am picking school based on Tier. Im a strong believer in the philosophy that you make you own educatoin wherever you are. I went to ASU, and continiously would talk to someone who would say.. oh you go to ASU.. thats easy. I have had the debate that school really doesnt matter rather it is what you put in. I would put my chem, physiology.. bio etc skills up agianst anyone else who was motivated and stuided like me. you either know it or you dont. I had hearing hwo some schools are so much better. however i agree for funding purposes and reputation of course it always helps. Anyway thanks!
 
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Lady MD

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Hi Dr. Wall$street,

I don't think there's anything wrong in wanting to go to the best school that you can. Getting an MD at a school with a well-known and highly regarded reputation may open up more doors than one that isn't. And the latter of which would probably also give you the unenthusiastic "Oh. You went there." declarations which isn't what anyone needs.

Although, as you have implied, a student at a top school such as Harvard or MIT or Stanford can put zero effort into their education and get out absolutely nothing.

While a student at school such as ASU, which isn't particularly highly regarded or with a reputable name can get an excellent education if they study their ass off and learn their stuff.

It's all about what the student wants to put into their education. The books are pretty much all the same. A student can sit down and learn the basics and the not-so-basic at any school in this country and come out with the same expertise and knowledge.

Good luck with your applications!

Originally posted by Dr. Wall$treet
hey thanks everyone. I by no means am picking school based on Tier. Im a strong believer in the philosophy that you make you own educatoin wherever you are. I went to ASU, and continiously would talk to someone who would say.. oh you go to ASU.. thats easy. I have had the debate that school really doesnt matter rather it is what you put in. I would put my chem, physiology.. bio etc skills up agianst anyone else who was motivated and stuided like me. you either know it or you dont. I had hearing hwo some schools are so much better. however i agree for funding purposes and reputation of course it always helps. Anyway thanks!
 

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Although a mockery is being made of this thread, I think it has a lot of legitimacy. Let's say the schools you are discussing are private. That means you are dishing out at least $30k/year in tuition alone. If in the spring you are stuck deciding between two schools, it makes a lot of sense to go to the one that would open more doors for you. May as well get the most bang for your buck. My personal belief is that even though a school has a great (top 30) US News ranking, it may still be considered a regional school. Particularly if all the graduates stay in a particular part of the country (as I think happens with state schools).

Just my thoughts..........
 

INeedAdvice

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My personal belief is that even though a school has a great (top 30) US News ranking, it may still be considered a regional school. Particularly if all the graduates stay in a particular part of the country (as I think happens with state schools).
You mean like Pitt? They're not a Top Ten school (or even a Top Fifteen school), but they are ranked. Yet, they don't get as much respect as I think they deserve (partially due to the outdated attitude people from other parts of the country have of the "rust belt"/smokey city image of what the city was like 20 years ago).

Pittsburgh is probably the most regional city of that size. Western PA has an extremely aged population (it could be oldest in the country) and people grow up there, go to school there, live there, and die there.
 

SunnyS81

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Pitt is actually a pretty good example. I don't know their exact ranking, but I'm applying and interviewing there so I have a vested interest in that particular institute. I noticed when comparing Pitt's match list with other schools of similar rank, that they don't get as much respect as you would expect. I'm not sure if this is because ranking is heavily weighted to include things that don't necessarily indicate a good educational program or not. I guess I'll have to wait and check them out next month.
 

INeedAdvice

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Originally posted by SunnyS81
Pitt is actually a pretty good example. [..] I noticed when comparing Pitt's match list with other schools of similar rank, that they don't get as much respect as you would expect. I'm not sure if this is because ranking is heavily weighted to include things that don't necessarily indicate a good educational program or not. I guess I'll have to wait and check them out next month.
You could be right..or Pitt just isn't respected because, well, because Pittsburgh is to big cities as New Jersey is to states...just not well-respected.

In fact, I nominated Rutgers (which just happens to be from NJ) and U. of Pitt as the two schools most likely to get the "Rodney Dangerfield" award of colleges (no respect) in the The "HARVARDS" and "Yales" of the Academic World thread.

http://www.studentdoctor.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4248&highlight=Harvard
 

Mylaina

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Just a comment on the bashing of Pittsburgh. I was born and raised there, and I left for medical school. After 2 months in Philadelphia, I realized that I miss home! Pittsburgh might not be a NYC or LA, but it's so clean (very little litter), hardly any homelessness, and very little crime (as opposed to bigger cities) Plus, Pitt's medical school is in a great area-- hospitals, restaurants, coffee shops, stores galore-- and in a citylike atmosphere without all of the crap that goes along with big cities.

And Pitt is apparentally doing something right since they interview and accept a ton of the Harvard, Yale and other "great school" pre-meds.

Sorry if this sounds a little harsh, I don't mean it to be- it's been a long and tiring day.
 

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Sort by: Rank for Research Schools from US NEWS (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/med/brief/mdrrank_brief.php)

1. Harvard University (MA)
2. Johns Hopkins University (MD)
3. Washington University in St. Louis
4. University of Pennsylvania
5. Duke University (NC)
6. University of California?San Francisco
7. Columbia U. College of Physicians and Surgeons (NY)
8. University of Michigan?Ann Arbor
9. Yale University (CT)
10. University of Washington
11. Cornell University (Weill) (NY)
Stanford University (CA)
13. Baylor College of Medicine (TX)
University of California?Los Angeles
15. Mayo Medical School (MN)
16. Vanderbilt University (TN)
17. University of Pittsburgh
U. of Texas Southwestern Medical Center?Dallas
19. University of Chicago
20. Emory University (GA)
University of California?San Diego
22. Case Western Reserve University (OH)
Mount Sinai School of Medicine (NY)
Northwestern University (IL)
University of North Carolina?Chapel Hill
26. New York University
27. University of Virginia
28. University of Alabama?Birmingham
University of Rochester (NY)
30. University of Iowa
31. University of Colorado Health Sciences Center
University of Wisconsin?Madison
Yeshiva University (Albert Einstein) (NY)
34. Dartmouth Medical School (NH)
35. Oregon Health & Science University
36. University of Minnesota?Twin Cities
University of Southern California
38. University of Utah
39. Boston University
Brown University (RI)
University of Maryland?Baltimore
Wake Forest University (NC)
43. Tufts University (MA)
44. Ohio State University
University of Cincinnati
University of Florida
47. Indiana University?Indianapolis
48. Jefferson Medical College (PA)
University of Massachusetts?Worcester
50. University of Miami (FL)

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/med/brief/mdprank_brief.php

By Rank for Primary Care Schools

1. University of Washington
2. Oregon Health & Science University
3. University of California?San Francisco
4. University of New Mexico
5. University of Massachusetts?Worcester
6. University of North Carolina?Chapel Hill
7. Harvard University (MA)
University of Rochester (NY)
9. University of Colorado Health Sciences Center
University of Iowa
11. Johns Hopkins University (MD)
University of California?Los Angeles
University of Missouri?Columbia
14. University of Michigan?Ann Arbor
University of Minnesota?Duluth
University of Minnesota?Twin Cities
17. Michigan State University
18. University of Pittsburgh
University of Wisconsin?Madison
20. Duke University (NC)
East Carolina University (Brody) (NC)
22. Case Western Reserve University (OH)
Dartmouth Medical School (NH)
University of California?Davis
25. Emory University (GA)
Southern Illinois University?Springfield
27. Baylor College of Medicine (TX)
East Tennessee State Univ. (J.H. Quillen)
University of Virginia
30. University of Alabama?Birmingham
Washington University in St. Louis
32. Jefferson Medical College (PA)
University of California?San Diego
34. University of Maryland?Baltimore
35. Mich. State U. Coll. of Osteopathic Medicine
Mount Sinai School of Medicine (NY)
University of Connecticut
University of Pennsylvania
39. Brown University (RI)
University of Nebraska College of Medicine
U. of N. Texas Health Sci. Center (Texas Col. of Osteopathic Medicine)
Wake Forest University (NC)
43. Indiana University?Indianapolis
University of Kentucky
Vanderbilt University (TN)
Wright State University (OH)
47. Columbia U. College of Physicians and Surgeons (NY)
Medical College of Wisconsin
Okla. State U. Coll. of Osteopathic Medicine
SUNY?Stony Brook
UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School
University of Utah
 

BlueAvocado

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Wallstreet I think you are absolutely right about what you put into your education is what you get out of it. I don't agree with any school being much better then another. There are schools which are better funded so they have a bigger budget for say newer equipment, more research funding, etc. But the bottom line is that a motivated student who goes to the local state college and who takes a chem class is probablly going to do better then someone who is less motivated and goes to USC or Stanford.

I think most schools gauge other schools by how difficult the instructors teach the material. The more conffusion they cause into their lecture, better they are. That's really the only thing that I have derived from my schooling. I am a graduate of Wayland Baptist University (BS Business), I also attended Rio Salado Community College, Sierra College, And now American River College and the bigest difference that I see is that the students were more serious and motivated at some of my classes and they did better regardless on how well the instructor thougt.
 

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It's true that students will get out what they put into their education. On the flip side, some programs have awesome professors and role models. There's a huge difference working side by side with a world famous physician or scientist. I was very fortunate to have this experience at Hopkins. I worked closely with one neuro-ophthalmologis, Dr. Neil Miller, who taught me how to be an astute clinician. His instructions have helped me tremendously through internship and now residency.

I think your encounters with professors like Dr. Miller come more frequently at world reknowned medical institutions because these programs make it their goal to attract and retain people like him. In my opinion, I'd rather learn from the professor who wrote the book rather than the one who read the book.
 

CatsAreKillers

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Originally posted by Dr. Grkovich
I think most schools gauge other schools by how difficult the instructors teach the material. The more conffusion they cause into their lecture, better they are. That's really the only thing that I have derived from my schooling. [...]and the bigest difference that I see is that the students were more serious and motivated at some of my classes and they did better regardless on how well the instructor thougt.
Hi Dr. Grkovich,

I totally agree with you!! I went to a top undergrad university. The authors that wrote the books were the professors that taught the class. Some of their books were so complicated and confusing, I thought they were useles....yet since this was a "big name" school, it wouldn't have been as politically saavy to use another big name school's professor's book....so us students were left with a complicated mess in some classes.

I then went to an "average" state school for my post bacc classes. What a difference! The professors were more down to earth and so were the students (not that they can't be like this at an elite top university, but that wasn't the experience where I went). And most importantly, the classes were more straightforward. IMHO, I'd rather have a straightforward class when I'm first learning the material than not. If you run before you can walk, then you may trip over yourself when trying to do the basics. ;)
 

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The authors that wrote the books were the professors that taught the class. Some of their books were so complicated and confusing, I thought they were useles....yet since this was a "big name" school, it wouldn't have been as politically saavy to use another big name school's professor's book....so us students were left with a complicated mess in some classes.
I'm not sure if there's a big difference between college professors who write the books and physicians who write books; however, the physicians who I've worked with at multiple institutions who have written texts in their specialities are outstanding.

It's true that not all people will learn well at a particular school. You just have to find where you like to learn! :) Good luck.
 
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