how do you have enough energy to get through 5 years of Gsurg residency

[Dire Straits]

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ok so i'm one of those people who can get real good grades without much effort. i've been like that through all my schooling ever since i can remember. i think this has made me kind of "lazy" compared to some other people. by that i mean i haven't been accustomed to expending lots of hard work, staying up late to do more work, etc. so i'm a bit concerned how i'm going to get through my 3rd year surgery rotation as well as a 5year gsurg residency where the hours are long and you have to wake up like around 5am or so everyday and go with little sleep. i am used to getting like 8-10 hours of sleep per night (except on some weekends when i stay out late but then crash for the rest of the weekend getting like 12hours of sleep). i know i won't have that luxury when i do my surgery rotation and when i'm a resident. and so i'm a bit apprehensive how i will function, especially when i have to go for years with less sleep. is it something your body gets used to? any other advice short of drinking lots of coffee?

 

[Alpha_Male]

ok so i'm one of those people who can get real good grades without much effort. i've been like that through all my schooling ever since i can remember. i think this has made me kind of "lazy" compared to some other people. by that i mean i haven't been accustomed to expending lots of hard work, staying up late to do more work, etc. so i'm a bit concerned how i'm going to get through my 3rd year surgery rotation as well as a 5year gsurg residency where the hours are long and you have to wake up like around 5am or so everyday and go with little sleep. i am used to getting like 8-10 hours of sleep per night (except on some weekends when i stay out late but then crash for the rest of the weekend getting like 12hours of sleep). i know i won't have that luxury when i do my surgery rotation and when i'm a resident. and so i'm a bit apprehensive how i will function, especially when i have to go for years with less sleep. is it something your body gets used to? any other advice short of drinking lots of coffee?

Then choose another specialty.

 

[DocWasabi]

ok so i'm one of those people who can get real good grades without much effort. i've been like that through all my schooling ever since i can remember. i think this has made me kind of "lazy" compared to some other people. by that i mean i haven't been accustomed to expending lots of hard work, staying up late to do more work, etc. so i'm a bit concerned how i'm going to get through my 3rd year surgery rotation as well as a 5year gsurg residency where the hours are long ...

If it's something you really enjoy and have fun doing, you will be able to make the adjustment and work hard. I love sleep as much as anyone else, but as a med student I had a harder time getting up relatively later in the day to go my medicine, psych, ob/gyn rotations...and seemed more tired since the days moved in slow motion. On the other hand, when I was on my surgical clerkship, and ped surg, surg onc sub-I's I had no problem getting up at 5am and the long days seemed to fly right by..b/c I was enjoying myself..

 

[imtiaz]

i agree with the above post. it was just like as long as we were going to the OR i was happy to wake up and go. heck, i slept in the surgery lounge on the couch so if the trauma guys walked through there they could hit me with a book or something (this probably sounds weird to you but i WANTED them to wake me up). at my hospital, if you werent around you werent getting paged, and that means you werent gonna scrub.

the point is, if you like surgery enough youll wake up.

 

[geekgirl]

i agree with the above post. it was just like as long as we were going to the OR i was happy to wake up and go. heck, i slept in the surgery lounge on the couch so if the trauma guys walked through there they could hit me with a book or something (this probably sounds weird to you but i WANTED them to wake me up). at my hospital, if you werent around you werent getting paged, and that means you werent gonna scrub.

the point is, if you like surgery enough youll wake up.

**** yeah.

isn't that why we do this? cause it's really fun?
worth any amount of lack of sleep.

i knew it was right 'cause i'm never, ever a clock-watcher in the OR.
tired later, but never there. best job in the world.

 

[Dire Straits]

best job in the world.

really? why then do surgeons have among the highest rate of suicide of all specialties? 😕

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

Why don't you actually wait until you've been in an OR and had your third year rotation before you try and figure all this out. Strange things happen third year as things you thought you'd love you'll hate and vice versa. No amount of conjecture on an internet message board will replace what it feels like to be in an OR. Just wait for the experience and then you'll probably know for sure one way or the other.

 

[RichL025]

really? why then do surgeons have among the highest rate of suicide of all specialties? 😕

Actually, I think psych and anesthesia beat them <g>.

 

[Blade28]

By the way, you won't be waking up as late as 5 am. 🙂

 

[Dire Straits]

Actually, I think psych and anesthesia beat them <g>.

i know, that's why i said surgeons have among the highest rate of suicide.i recall reading in a usmle review book they were somewhere in the top 5 of all specialties.

 

[Dire Straits]

Why don't you actually wait until you've been in an OR and had your third year rotation before you try and figure all this out. Strange things happen third year as things you thought you'd love you'll hate and vice versa. No amount of conjecture on an internet message board will replace what it feels like to be in an OR. Just wait for the experience and then you'll probably know for sure one way or the other.

i realize that. i'm just wondering how i'm going to get my azz out of bed everyday for 3 straight months with little-to-no sleep when i have always been used to getting plenty of sleep.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

My point remains the same. If you like it enough, you'll drag your dead arse out of the sack 😉


In all seriousness I want to echo what others have said. During the surgery rotation it sucked some mornings getting up so early, but I got a huge kick out of the rotation. Going in at 8 on family or psych was far more tortuous.

 

[RichL025]

My point remains the same. If you like it enough, you'll drag your dead arse out of the sack 😉


In all seriousness I want to echo what others have said. During the surgery rotation it sucked some mornings getting up so early, but I got a huge kick out of the rotation. Going in at 8 on family or psych was far more tortuous.

Same here! I found myself seriously considering surgery when, driving down to my FP rotation (6 hours from where I go to school), anticipating all the wonderful juggling of diabetic & HTN meds, I thought to myself "I'd rather do general surgery again than do this!".... that's when the bell rung for me <g>.

 

[Smurfette]

i know, that's why i said surgeons have among the highest rate of suicide.i recall reading in a usmle review book they were somewhere in the top 5 of all specialties.

There's only so many specialties...something has to be in the "top 5". And physicians in general have a very high suicide rate compared to the general population.

Seriously, I think the rate among psychiatrists is so high compared to other specialties that you can't really compare it to the rest of the specialties. My guess is that the suicide rate is also pretty high among neurologists and anesthesia. I'd be surprised if surgeons have higher rates than those 2 specialties as well.

 

[DocWasabi]

Same here! I found myself seriously considering surgery when, driving down to my FP rotation (6 hours from where I go to school), anticipating all the wonderful juggling of diabetic & HTN meds, I thought to myself "I'd rather do general surgery again than do this!".... that's when the bell rung for me <g>.

yeah, that was my favorite during CCU rounds. arguing for 20 minutes about whether or not to go up or down on the beta-blocker, and trying to remember all those studies with the silly acroymns.

 

[GenSurg]

Residents in most specialties are tired. In surgery, we tend to work longer and harder hours that most, although medicine ward months can be hell. Often, it is difficult to continue waking up early and live on a paucity of sleep, especially as an intern, when you are performing mundane tasks and not operating. As previously said, surgery is fun when you get to do the operating. That being said, not all surgery involves operating in the middle of the night. Most surgeons don't take trauma call, and there are a variety of practices in which one can perform scheduled surgery and take limited call. Residency is going to be bad whatevery specialty you choose, but you need to do something that you will enjoy for the rest of your life.

http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=20049323

 

[Celiac Plexus]

echoing some posters... i have taken a number of trauma calls during which i did nothing but work up drunk "blunt stable" patients for 24 hours straight only to go home and sleep away the next afternoon. this is a highly unpleasant experience, and i would give my left testicle to eliminate this part of my training....

on the other hand, today i did four cases, and i am totally amped right now and couldn't imagine doing anything else.

there's good and bad, but since i am not going to be a trauma surgeon, i know that most of the pain i feel in residency will be limited to residency. but for the rest of my life i will have a job i love doing.

residency is hard, and it's wise to consider what you are willing to go through to achieve expertise in a given field. perhaps you are better suited for a different field. or perhaps you will love operating enough to choose surgery. that's what 3rd year rotations are for.

best of luck.

 

[tomplatz]

"you have to wake up like around 5am or so everyday and go with little sleep."

I spit out my coke I laughed so hard at this. First week, I've been ARRIVING at work at 0345 and leaving between 6 and 8 at night every day. Plus call. Well over 100 hours the first week. Yes this will come down some once we're better oriented, but we round with faculty at 0600, so you're still talking arriving no later than 0430 at best.

Pick another specialty dude. Like family medicine or pedes.

 

[Blade28]

We have the same situation here...attending rounds at around 6:30, so team rounds at 5:45...which means we get in to preround at around 4. I usually leave around 7-8 every day, and on post-call days I've been leaving around 4.

 

[tomplatz]

gotta stay positive though. all this hard work should translate to good OR cases. the staff notice who works hard and who doesn't.

hang in there buddy. only 4 years, 357 days to go. 🙂

 

[Dire Straits]

"you have to wake up like around 5am or so everyday and go with little sleep."

I spit out my coke I laughed so hard at this. First week, I've been ARRIVING at work at 0345 and leaving between 6 and 8 at night every day. Plus call. Well over 100 hours the first week. Yes this will come down some once we're better oriented, but we round with faculty at 0600, so you're still talking arriving no later than 0430 at best.

Pick another specialty dude. Like family medicine or pedes.

yeah ok maybe if you had been at a different program you wouldn't have to be showing up at 3:45. the med students where i'm at usually arrive at about 6:00, hence the need to wake up at around 5:00 to get ready and drive to the hospital. who the heck arrives at 3:45 unless they are ridiculously slow at getting their work done.

 

[Skinny]

yeah ok maybe if you had been at a different program you wouldn't have to be showing up at 3:45. the med students where i'm at usually arrive at about 6:00, hence the need to wake up at around 5:00 to get ready and drive to the hospital. who the heck arrives at 3:45 unless they are ridiculously slow at getting their work done.

Amen!

 

[blue2000]

yeah ok maybe if you had been at a different program you wouldn't have to be showing up at 3:45. the med students where i'm at usually arrive at about 6:00, hence the need to wake up at around 5:00 to get ready and drive to the hospital. who the heck arrives at 3:45 unless they are ridiculously slow at getting their work done.

I think it all has to do with how committed a program truly is to the 80 hour work week. In my program, one way we've gotten closer to compliance is by changing the way rounds take place (we don't have everyone pre-round, then round as a team, then round with the attending) because this is a huge time-sink. OTOH, some would say that it also is a huge learning opportunity, that we're missing. We gather numbers at 6:00 and then round together at 6:30, with the notes put in charts by who ever isn't going to the OR while those who are doing the first case go to the OR. If you look at Blade's hours, that's not an 80-hour work week compliant schedule (really not trying to start a discussion on that, just stating facts as I see them).

I love surgery. 80-hrs a week doesn't seem like a ton, even though I'm an overworked intern. Two evenings a week I'm home early (post-call) and catch up on my life, and the rest of the time, I may get to go to the OR. Life is not bad.

Oh, and I love coffee. 😉

 

[Smurfette]

it also depends on how busy your service is and how frequently your attendings take call to get new patients. If your service is 40-50 patients strong and the OR starts at 7:30, you may be rounding for a couple hours to see everyone and prerounding for an hour or so before that depending on how big of a team you have.

 

[powermd]

As a med student doing surgery, and now as a CA-1, I'm really appreciating the formula 24 hrs = work + sleep + social life. If you want more of one, you have to cut back somewhere. If you want more sleep, go to bed earlier. If that means only having 1-2 hrs of personal time per day, that is what you have to sacrifice. Lately I've been getting up at 5:00 am, to the hospital by 5:45, setting up my OR by 6:25 (I'm new at this, so I'm slow), then going to lecture until cases start at 7 am. Later on when we don't have 6:25 lecture, and I'm faster at OR setup, I can probably arrive by 6:30. If you love the OR, but can't stomach the lifestyle of surgery- give a thought to anesthesiology. So far I'm loving it! True, you don't get to operate (which is totally cool, and I respect the guys that do it), but you spend almost 100% of your time at work actually practicing medicine- no boring clinic, no painful rounding, no ER consults, long, busy days, but a good shot at sleep most nights, (mostly) easy call, and few weekends!

 

[Leukocyte]

yeah ok maybe if you had been at a different program you wouldn't have to be showing up at 3:45. the med students where i'm at usually arrive at about 6:00, hence the need to wake up at around 5:00 to get ready and drive to the hospital. who the heck arrives at 3:45 unless they are ridiculously slow at getting their work done.

It depends on the service and how many patients you have. At my school, we round at 6:00am. There are about 20 patients per team, and each team has 2 students and 1 intern. Students and interns arrive at 4:30 - 5:00 to pre-round.

 

[Leukocyte]

24 hrs = work + sleep + social life. If you want more of one, you have to cut back somewhere.

True.

 

[Vincristine]

yeah ok maybe if you had been at a different program you wouldn't have to be showing up at 3:45. the med students where i'm at usually arrive at about 6:00, hence the need to wake up at around 5:00 to get ready and drive to the hospital. who the heck arrives at 3:45 unless they are ridiculously slow at getting their work done.

Incredibly slow? Nope, I, too, arrive at 3:45 to preround. I have approx 20-25 pts to gather data on, examin as many as possible, undate my record of their meds, update the team census list, and fix overnight problems. We do team rounds at 5 or 5:30am. Most mornings I can get a couple notes written before team rounds. We finish card rounds by 7am; I start orders while my chief sees people and updates me with any changes in the plan. My OR schedule varies daily, but the first cases are at 7:30a. Obviously the rest of my day is balancing the OR, notes, floor events, tracking down consults, and following lab/imaging data. The goal is to gather afternoon numbers as early as possible, do afternoon rounds, and get people signed out. While rounds might happen as early at 4p, I leave at 6:30p on average.

And as everyone else has said, there's nothing else I could be doing. Despite how much scut I may have left, I rarely look at the clock in the OR or have any desire to leave. Nothin beats operating. It can be a long-ass day, with tons more to do, but I'm awake and happy in the OR. If you're worried about sleep -- especially your simple 3rd year clerkship -- this is not your field.

 

[Blade28]

Despite how much scut I may have left, I rarely look at the clock in the OR or have any desire to leave. Nothin beats operating. It can be a long-ass day, with tons more to do, but I'm awake and happy in the OR. If you're worried about sleep -- especially your simple 3rd year clerkship -- this is not your field.

I agree 100%. Operating makes the floor scut work, lack of sleep, long hours, etc. all worth it. As my chief told us during orientation, "it's the one place where you can forget all that other sh** in your life." 🙂

 

[doc05]

We have the same situation here...attending rounds at around 6:30, so team rounds at 5:45...which means we get in to preround at around 4. I usually leave around 7-8 every day, and on post-call days I've been leaving around 4.

wow. your schedule doesn't seem the least bit work-hours compliant. why isn't the on-call intern prerounding?

 

[Justin4563]

**** yeah.

isn't that why we do this? cause it's really fun?
worth any amount of lack of sleep.

i knew it was right 'cause i'm never, ever a clock-watcher in the OR.
tired later, but never there. best job in the world.

I love it when people who are not surgeons say its the best job in the world.. thats some seriously funny shat....

try checking out the reimbursements for surgeons lately

Find me any surgeon.. (who pays his malpractice... maintains his own office... and is in private practice) tell me its the best job in the world.. I bet you cant do it Not some academic dude either.. those guys have a joke of a life. everything is done for them..

 

[Ergo]

i know, that's why i said surgeons have among the highest rate of suicide.i recall reading in a usmle review book they were somewhere in the top 5 of all specialties.

I suspect that Anesthesiologists who die of recreational overdose artificially inflate that suicide figure... psychiatrists I can believe might be disturbed enough to kill themselves.