How do you know if you "have what it takes?"

[mmali2]

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Hi,
I'm an M1 and am very interested in surgery. I was wondering if you surgeons knew, since or before you started med school, that you had "special hands" or knew that your hands were good enough for surgery. Is there some test I can give myself? Were any of you worried that you might commit to surgery only to realize that your hands stink? I want to be a surgeon, but not if I'm gonna stink at it.

Thanks!

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

Hopefully this is fit to post here without any problem. I asked one of the CT guys this very same question at a surgery interest group meeting my first year. His response was "if you can masturbate, you can learn to be a good surgeon" I've always been told that with so much training, that you'll get good at what you need to be good at. Obviously like most things there are some that are naturally better than others, but you can be trained to be a very skilled surgeon.

 

[DoctorDoom]

"Hands" are rarely the issue. Arthur Aufses always said that he could train a chimp to operate, but training a good surgeon is very difficult.

Best way to find out is to do it; sign up for plenty of surgical electives and get yourself into the OR as the MS3-4

 

[Winged Scapula]

There are a few technically gifted surgeons out there, who came by their skills naturally. Most of us have to work at it; some of us harder than others. The "I can teach a chimp to operate" is an old saw - you'll hear it at least once in your career. I frankly do not considered myself gifted, particularly graceful or having anything special. I just practice and the skills eventually materialize.

 

[Neuron]

His response was "if you can masturbate, you can learn to be a good surgeon"

I agree with what's been posted here. Although it is an image the lay public and media cling to, "gifted hands" are not crucially important in what makes a great surgeon. More important are intelligence, and a capacity for relentless practice - the frame of mind to stick doggedly at something until you get it right. And a skin of requisite thickness to take the slings that will be hurled at you.

Of course, every few years in many programs there comes a dude who seems to have a "gift", who can see planes, understand the field in a glance, and who seems to know what to do almost instinctively. These people will have to work at it less to become technically brilliant surgeons, but the most important thing in their armamentarium is what's between the ears, not below the wrists.

 

[Celiac Plexus]

Gotta agree with the above posts. Practice is key. But also one addition: read and be prepared for a case.

As an intern I got reamed by a vascular surgeon for being poor at tieing knots. He once once said, "you tie knots like a 3rd year med student". lol. So I practiced my nuts off every night and went through 3 or 4 packs of vicryl ties every night for about 3 months. At the end of the year, I did a BKA with the same guy, and I thought I did it well... as the end he pauses during his dictation and says, "You still need to work on your knots." He's right too. Sp practice/repetition is key.

On the other hand, preparation is also important. I did a nissen as an intern. I had a good 3 days to prepare so I read every operative description I could of nissen fundoplication. I made sure I knew the anatomy backwards and forwards. During the case, I took charge as much as I could, and tried not to let him take over. And after the case, the attending told me that I did a better job than some of the pgy-3s... I doubt that he was right on that one... I just had him fooled. But still, my point is that preparation is key.

Good luck.

 

[Celiac Plexus]

4. Ability to live in a dictatorship. All residents have to whisper and act like their chairman is Saddam, ready to lash out at the residents, but it tends to be worse in general surgery. Not all surgery faculty are like Saddam, only a few. Those few can be quite a terror, though.

This is true only if you're easily intimidated.

 

[mmali2]

Thanks for the responses guys. I really appreciate your input.

 

[ortho2003]

Intimidation has nothing to do with it. I know of general surgery residents who were fired even though they were good residents. I have seen sexual harrassment that resulted in sex (or is it rape). This is what I mean about a few faculty being like Saddam. This is not to imply that all general surgeons are like Saddam. I have met some truly helpful general surgeons.

Luckily, I didn't have to deal with it forever as I am in a surgical subspecialty, not general surgery.

Have you met general surgeons that have gassed their residents? One of the dumbest comments I have read on here....

 

[cajuntexan00]

I know that sounds crazy but I got a research job over the summer in basic science an it involved lots of animal surgery. It taught me to do surgery under the microscope and now at least I can go into surgery with some confidence.

 

[Foxxy Cleopatra]

Manual dexterity is a part of what it takes, though I beleive almost anyone can learn the physical aspect of it. There are a few who are naturally technical talents and very, very few who just cannot see the places/ get the spatial relations/ handle instruments. I think most of us fall into a spectrum of average where we can learn with enough practice to get the moves and technique right.

I also beleive that a whole lot more to having what it takes means having such an enthusiasm for surgery that you put it above all else in life. I know some people say that it is now easy (with the 80-hour law) but that is not the case where I am training. How do you feel about early mornings (up every day at 3:45 AM) and late nights mixed with call every 3rd night? Mix it with angry, ungrateful patients, frusterated staff, tons of scut, hardly having any time for friends/family, and a hierarchial, tense environment. Do you think after living like that for years on end that you will still love surgery and see it to be worthwhile?

You may be the sort who enjoys being a surgeon so much that you would be satisfied with your choice anyways, regardless of the environment. However, I think many people see only the fun part of surgery and fail to realize the above stated as a possibility when they are a student and find themselves unpleasantly surprised and bitter once they hit residency.

Something to think about; the operating room IS fun, but it comes with a cost.

 

[Pilot Doc]

Have you met general surgeons that have gassed their residents?

I have heard of attendings who intentionally stick residents.

 

[Blade28]

So I practiced my nuts off every night and went through 3 or 4 packs of vicryl ties every night for about 3 months.
...
On the other hand, preparation is also important. I did a nissen as an intern. I had a good 3 days to prepare so I read every operative description I could of nissen fundoplication. I made sure I knew the anatomy backwards and forwards.

That's great advice. 👍

 

[Celiac Plexus]

Something to think about; the operating room IS fun, but it comes with a cost.

Hell yeah it does.

I think that the above statement is one th most important one made on this site, ever. There is a huge cost in becoming a physician, no matter the field. Surgery is the field though, that probably exacts the highest cost. Be prepared to pay...

 

[imtiaz]

what do you mean stick? like with a needle?

 

[Blade28]

You may be the sort who enjoys being a surgeon so much that you would be satisfied with your choice anyways, regardless of the environment. However, I think many people see only the fun part of surgery and fail to realize the above stated as a possibility when they are a student and find themselves unpleasantly surprised and bitter once they hit residency.

Something to think about; the operating room IS fun, but it comes with a cost.

Just out of curiosity, if you had to do it all over again, would you? (That is, do you have any regrets about going into surgery?)

 

[TheThroat]

Surgery is like any sport. If you practice shooting a basketball everyday, you will get better. Eventually, you can be pretty good. That said, you are not going to be Michael Jordan. Same thing goes with surgery.

Its the mental and personal side of medicine that largely separates "good" surgeons from "great" surgeons, not how good they are in the OR. A good bedside manner will count for much more than technical ability when it comes to patient outcomes, success, and lawsuits. Just in case you were wondering, anyone going into ANY surgical subspecialty should EXPECT to be sued several times during her/his career.

 

[Sensei_Sevo]

Hi,
I'm an M1 and am very interested in surgery. I was wondering if you surgeons knew, since or before you started med school, that you had "special hands" or knew that your hands were good enough for surgery. Is there some test I can give myself? Were any of you worried that you might commit to surgery only to realize that your hands stink? I want to be a surgeon, but not if I'm gonna stink at it.

Thanks!

Dude...........take the index and middle fingers of your right hand and place them on the radial pulse of your left hand? Do you feel a pulsatile sensation? THEN YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO BECOME A SURGEON! 🙂