genessis42

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So as a DO, how do you figure out if step is right for you? When would be considered too late to actually register for it?

I'm just studying for it and COMLEX as the semester goes along. I want to do an NBME assessment to see where I am.

My school doesn't really help with usmle stuff as much, and pushes the comlex-only idea
 

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How have you done academically so far in med school? Mostly 70s? 70s/80s? 80s? 80s/90s? Have you used board resources during med school?
 
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AnatomyGrey12

You should take it so when you graduate you can use it for licensure instead of COMLEX.
 
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Neopolymath

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Plan to take usmle day 1 of school. If you are at risk of failing on practice tests close to the exam then don't risk it. You absolutely have to plan to study and prioritize usmle from day 1 though. Don't listen to your school... Idk how many times that last part needs to be mentioned. I feel like people wouldn't be this naive at this point.
 
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So as a DO, how do you figure out if step is right for you? When would be considered too late to actually register for it?

I'm just studying for it and COMLEX as the semester goes along. I want to do an NBME assessment to see where I am.

My school doesn't really help with usmle stuff as much, and pushes the comlex-only idea
If you're an 85% + student, definitely take it.

80-84ish, consider taking it.

<80, stick with COMLEX.
 
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genessis42

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I've been a 75 student because it took me a while to adjust properly during year 1.

I do use Kaplan's banks, Truelearn, and UWorld. I found UWorld to be the toughest but didn't start using it until later.

What is considered late in terms of actually registering for it?
 

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I've been a 75 student because it took me a while to adjust properly during year 1.

I do use Kaplan's banks, Truelearn, and UWorld. I found UWorld to be the toughest but didn't start using it until later.

What is considered late in terms of actually registering for it?
Stop doing truelearn. It is honestly probably making you perform worse. I wish I was exaggerating.
 
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I don't know nearly as much about COMLEX prep as STEP, how is COMQUEST for COMLEX?

I've done UWorld religiously but was told by someone who did well on both exams that COMQUEST was great for getting used to COMLEX's horribly worded questions while UWorld was great for overall knowledge, but this is just n=1
 
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The answer is - always. Don’t let anyone else tell you different. They are either clueless or are purposely sabotaging your future.

Imagine if 1000 people were applying to your residency program containing 20 spots, you are the program director tasked with screening and determining which applicants to interview. Out of the 1000, 850 have USMLE scores. 150 have comlex only. What would you do?

Regardless of how high the comlex scores may be, your logical instincts would make it impossible to judge/distinguish between the 150 without comlex and the 850 with USMLE. Immediately you would screen out the 150 because that’s 150 less apps to review, after all finding 20 suitable candidates from 850 should be statistically simple.

COMLEX =\= USMLE.

Don’t **** yourself and your 250k investment. Your school is giving you literally one thing and on thing only, the chance to take the USMLE and market yourself to as many residency programs as possible. It’s a business transaction at the end of the day and nothing more.

If you still don’t understand the importance after this, I really hope you made it big on $GME stocks or some****, otherwise prepare to have stress ulcers in 4th yr like I saw many people did applying to a crazy amount of programs. There is still time for you though.
 
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drducky.

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You still have almost half a year. That’s plenty of time to not only pass but to also do well.

Here’s what you should do:
1)Study for step 1 like your life depends on it.
2)Drop all comlex specific material like combank until you’re done with step 1.
3)Come back and thank me in 2 years when you actually match into what you want to.
 
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genessis42

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I was pretty much living it up in my past 3 semesters as a med student and came out as a C student (75s in classes).

I think I can buckle down and handle step 1, if I keep my mind on it though.

Can't you also take step 1 later on in med school as well? I've heard of people doing it, but I'm not sure of that's wise because I might forget a lot of the basic science stuff in the clinical years
 
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Deecee2DO

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I was pretty much living it up in my past 3 semesters as a med student and came out as a C student (75s in classes).

I think I can buckle down and handle step 1, if I keep my mind on it though.

Can't you also take step 1 later on in med school as well? I've heard of people doing it, but I'm not sure of that's wise because I might forget a lot of the basic science stuff in the clinical years
Id try and avoid taking Step later. If u must its still an option but definitely try and take it before you start M3 rotations since youll have much less time to study
 
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JimBone905

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should I take it if I'm an 85%'er GPA student? M2 with like 2 blocks left and have been averaging 60% on USMLE rx (~1.2k in).
 
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Drrrrrr. Celty

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If you're above the both 25th percentile study to take both. If your NBME practice tests are not over 215 x 2 then cancel it or take the loss. There's no value in getting a 200 or risking failure. Likewise there is a lot to gain with a score >220.
 

JimBone905

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If you're above the both 25th percentile study to take both. If your NBME practice tests are not over 215 x 2 then cancel it or take the loss. There's no value in getting a 200 or risking failure. Likewise there is a lot to gain with a score >220.
When is a good time to start taking NBME practice tests? start of dedicated?
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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When is a good time to start taking NBME practice tests? start of dedicated?

I think that taking one once you're 15% done with UWorld isn't a bad idea. It'll form kind of a baseline of this is you and you probably will gain 10-15 points from that point.
 

drducky.

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I was pretty much living it up in my past 3 semesters as a med student and came out as a C student (75s in classes).

I think I can buckle down and handle step 1, if I keep my mind on it though.

Can't you also take step 1 later on in med school as well? I've heard of people doing it, but I'm not sure of that's wise because I might forget a lot of the basic science stuff in the clinical years
I wouldn’t even go by your percentile. Some people go to easy schools where everyone gets 95% and some people like me that gets straight C’s because I refuse to learn the phD minutiae and focus on boards instead.
 
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JimBone905

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I wouldn’t even go by your percentile. Some people go to easy schools where everyone gets 95% and some people like me that gets straight C’s because I refuse to learn the phD minutiae and focus on boards instead.
honestly I'm the same. I never bothered trying to learn stuff that I don't see in FA/P, B&B, or anki. I miss easy bs questions all the time b/c i spend more time on anki and board resources than reviewing the same slides 3x in a row (prob why I am hovering around 50%).
 
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Steve_Zissou

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If you're an 85% + student, definitely take it.

80-84ish, consider taking it.

<80, stick with COMLEX.
I scored in the mid to high 70s often, mainly because I thought the PhD minutiae wasn’t worth my time so I focused on big picture stuff. I may be the exception to the score rule but I got a 249 on step 1.
 

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I scored in the mid to high 70s often, mainly because I thought the PhD minutiae wasn’t worth my time so I focused on big picture stuff. I may be the exception to the score rule but I got a 249 on step 1.
I can't argue with a case in point, but at my school and plenty of others, pre-clinical GPAs are the best predictors of Board scores.

The only confounders are the people who blow off classes and skate by, while all the time going in deep and long on Boards prep.
 
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Prehealth1011

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I made an account on residency explorer. Saw my options diminish rapidly when I put my DO status in my profile. That’s when I knew
 
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Steve_Zissou

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I can't argue with a case in point, but at my school and plenty of others, pre-clinical GPAs are the best predictors of Board scores.

The only confounders are the people who blow off classes and skate by, while all the time going in deep and long on Boards prep.
Oh, I went in deep and long 😏 on the board prep of course.
 
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FutureDoctor5000

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I made an account on residency explorer. Saw my options diminish rapidly when I put my DO status in my profile. That’s when I knew
lol wut? Why does residency explorer care about your DO status? It cares more about having step 1 and ck scores. Its such a pointless site tbh, you cant use it to figure out which programs to apply to, you should apply to all places you want to be at and are competitive at(Middle 50% and better for step 1 and step 2Ck, and middle 50% and better for research and work experiences), 0% DO does not mean they wont interview or rank you , theres far fewer DO's in general so many programs that will consider you will be at 0-5% DO...
 
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Prehealth1011

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lol wut? Why does residency explorer care about your DO status? Its such a pointless site, you cant use it to figure out which programs to apply to, you should apply to all places you want to be at and are competitive at, 0% DO does not mean they wont interview or rank you , theres far fewer DO's in general so many programs that will consider you will be at 0-5% DO...
It’s not the best site but it’s a tool just like anything else. I’m 0/14 from the programs that take 0% DO and I’m not a sh!t applicant for my speciality

Are you applying to residency this year? You should ignore the average scores if you’re in the range and you’re local, but the %DO taken absolutely matters whether you deduce it from explorer or the program site. It’ll make more sense once you apply
 
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FutureDoctor5000

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It’s not the best site but it’s a tool just like anything else. I’m 0/14 from the programs that take 0% DO and I’m not a sh!t applicant for my speciality

Are you applying to residency this year? You should ignore the average scores if you’re in the range and you’re local, but the %DO taken absolutely matters whether you deduce it from explorer or the program site. It’ll make more sense once you apply
I mean there could be many reasons why your 0/14, it’s only 14 programs, how far are they geographically? Are most of them top 20 programs that rarely ever take DO’s? Or img friendly shops that don’t take USMD or DO, how many interviews did you get from 1%-10% DO programs?
 

FutureDoctor5000

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The answer is - always. Don’t let anyone else tell you different. They are either clueless or are purposely sabotaging your future.

Imagine if 1000 people were applying to your residency program containing 20 spots, you are the program director tasked with screening and determining which applicants to interview. Out of the 1000, 850 have USMLE scores. 150 have comlex only. What would you do?

Regardless of how high the comlex scores may be, your logical instincts would make it impossible to judge/distinguish between the 150 without comlex and the 850 with USMLE. Immediately you would screen out the 150 because that’s 150 less apps to review, after all finding 20 suitable candidates from 850 should be statistically simple.

COMLEX =\= USMLE.

Don’t **** yourself and your 250k investment. Your school is giving you literally one thing and on thing only, the chance to take the USMLE and market yourself to as many residency programs as possible. It’s a business transaction at the end of the day and nothing more.

If you still don’t understand the importance after this, I really hope you made it big on $GME stocks or some****, otherwise prepare to have stress ulcers in 4th yr like I saw many people did applying to a crazy amount of programs. There is still time for you though.
100% this!
 
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deleted1085158

I have a somewhat related question as a pre-med....

Does the DO curriculum prepare you for STEP1 or is it designed to prepare you for COMLEX and it is your responsibility to "fill in the gaps" if you choose to take STEP1.

Are COMLEX and STEP really that different?
 

Steve_Zissou

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I have a somewhat related question as a pre-med....

Does the DO curriculum prepare you for STEP1 or is it designed to prepare you for COMLEX and it is your responsibility to "fill in the gaps" if you choose to take STEP1.

Are COMLEX and STEP really that different?
DO curriculum at my school, imo, didn’t prepare me super well for either. Outside resources will teach you all you need to know for step and comlex.

Yes, they are very very very very different. COMLEX relies on archaic verbiage and poor wording to make questions difficult, but they are usually first order questions. Step gives you understandable wording but asks second and third order questions.
 
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deleted1085158

DO curriculum at my school, imo, didn’t prepare me super well for either. Outside resources will teach you all you need to know for step and comlex.

Yes, they are very very very very different. COMLEX relies on archaic verbiage and poor wording to make questions difficult, but they are usually first order questions. Step gives you understandable wording but asks second and third order questions.
Is it common for the majority of DO students to take just COMLEX or to try and take both COMLEX and STEP.

I've shadowed at a few hospitals that have DO's and MD's in the same IM and FM programs but I never bothered to ask what exams they took.
 

Steve_Zissou

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Is it common for the majority of DO students to take just COMLEX or to try and take both COMLEX and STEP.

I've shadowed at a few hospitals that have DO's and MD's in the same IM and FM programs but I never bothered to ask what exams they took.
Both. Especially now.
 
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AnatomyGrey12

I mean there could be many reasons why your 0/14, it’s only 14 programs, how far are they geographically? Are most of them top 20 programs that rarely ever take DO’s? Or img friendly shops that don’t take USMD or DO, how many interviews did you get from 1%-10% DO programs?
I have repeatedly told you this and you can keep ignoring it if you want, but DO bias is very very real. There are many programs in all specialties, across all tiers that will refuse to take DOs.


Is it common for the majority of DO students to take just COMLEX or to try and take both COMLEX and STEP.

I've shadowed at a few hospitals that have DO's and MD's in the same IM and FM programs but I never bothered to ask what exams they took.
Take both.
 
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Ho0v-man

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I mean there could be many reasons why your 0/14, it’s only 14 programs, how far are they geographically? Are most of them top 20 programs that rarely ever take DO’s? Or img friendly shops that don’t take USMD or DO, how many interviews did you get from 1%-10% DO programs?
If this cycle has taught us anything, it’s how strong DO bias really is. Even community programs in undesirable locations that routinely match DOs would rather fill all of their interview slots with mediocre USMDs.

I have a somewhat related question as a pre-med....

Does the DO curriculum prepare you for STEP1 or is it designed to prepare you for COMLEX and it is your responsibility to "fill in the gaps" if you choose to take STEP1.

Are COMLEX and STEP really that different?
My curriculum covered most of it for both. It’s all the same info, just very different emphasis of topics. I.e., comlex is much heavier on micro and doesn’t always follow along first aid to the letter while step will follow the resources extremely closely while asking you to more heavily integrate concepts. The complaints I have about my curriculum are very similar to the MD students I know.
 
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Steve_Zissou

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If this cycle has taught us anything, it’s how strong DO bias really is. Even community programs in undesirable locations that routinely match DOs would rather fill all of their interview slots with mediocre USMDs.


My curriculum covered most of it for both. It’s all the same info, just very different emphasis of topics. I.e., comlex is much heavier on micro and doesn’t always follow along first aid to the letter while step will follow the resources extremely closely while asking you to more heavily integrate concepts. The complaints I have about my curriculum are very similar to the MD students I know.
Any data on this cycle having shown us that bias? I have a close friend who scored lower than me on step 1 (I haven’t taken step 2 yet) who got interviews at some really strong rads programs in the north east (think top 10 programs).
 
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FutureDoctor5000

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Any data on this cycle having shown us that bias? I have a close friend who scored lower than me on step 1 (I haven’t taken step 2 yet) who got interviews at some really strong rads programs in the north east (think top 10 programs).
Yea I have heard exactly opposite in IM as well...
 

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I was mid-80s and almost didn't take it due to a presentation at my school about our metrics.

Ultimately it occurred to me that no matter what I was going to be using the same resources for COMLEX. Because of this I decided I would just take a some practice tests at the start of dedicated and if I did really awful I'd nix it. I don't see how "not taking USMLE" will change your plans very much, other than not shelling out a few hundred in registration fees.

Ended up getting 230/550 in the end.
 
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DameJulie

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What are some red flags that indicates shouldn't take USMLE? For example, super low UW %, not finishing UFAPS during dedicated, below whatever NBME practice test score. For students who are in bottom quartile that did not attribute the low score to board prep, what advice can they get? The main concern is failing USMLE despite that COMLEX has a lower passing rate overall.
 

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Any data on this cycle having shown us that bias? I have a close friend who scored lower than me on step 1 (I haven’t taken step 2 yet) who got interviews at some really strong rads programs in the north east (think top 10 programs).
Pretty sure there aren’t top 10 programs in rads that interview DOs. Depends on what your friend considers top 10. I’ve gotten some big name programs myself though. Ironically, those came quicker than mid tier.

But when you see people with 240+, multiple pubs and honor societies with glowing subi letters with regional ties getting passed over for USMDs with 210s you kind of just put 2 and 2 together. This’ll make more sense when you go through it.
 
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Steve_Zissou

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Pretty sure there aren’t top 10 programs in rads that interview DOs. Depends on what your friend considers top 10. I’ve gotten some big name programs myself though. Ironically, those came quicker than mid tier.

But when you see people with 240+, multiple pubs and honor societies with glowing subi letters with regional ties getting passed over for USMDs with 210s you kind of just put 2 and 2 together. This’ll make more sense when you go through it.
My bad, I just looked on doximity and it’s too 25. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see how it goes once this years match lists come out.
 
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FutureDoctor5000

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Pretty sure there aren’t top 10 programs in rads that interview DOs. Depends on what your friend considers top 10. I’ve gotten some big name programs myself though. Ironically, those came quicker than mid tier.

But when you see people with 240+, multiple pubs and honor societies with glowing subi letters with regional ties getting passed over for USMDs with 210s you kind of just put 2 and 2 together. This’ll make more sense when you go through it.
Are you applying rads?
 

Neopolymath

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Pretty sure there aren’t top 10 programs in rads that interview DOs. Depends on what your friend considers top 10. I’ve gotten some big name programs myself though. Ironically, those came quicker than mid tier.

But when you see people with 240+, multiple pubs and honor societies with glowing subi letters with regional ties getting passed over for USMDs with 210s you kind of just put 2 and 2 together. This’ll make more sense when you go through it.
This happens every year. It's kinda like when M1s trust their admin and then the next year we see them posting that their opinion changed lol.

The DO forum has seasons every year.
 
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Ho0v-man

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How’s the cycle been for DO’s? Much harder for the mid-upper tier programs dude to lack of auditions due to covid?
Auditions don’t matter in rads. I did my only rads rotation at a solid community program where I got a LOR and have netted some big programs.

It’s been a wild ride for me. I think big name places that routinely take DOs actually do a better job evaluating apps and seeing who’s really interested. They also know their rep won’t take a hit because of having us.

However, I was really interested in less competitive local programs because I just wanted to stay close to home. And I don’t live in what most would consider a desirable area. But I got ghosted by most of them. And then you read the spreadsheet and realize you’re losing out to MDs with scores 20-30 points lower than you. So it’s like getting yield-protected out for having high stats at community programs AND discriminated against for being a DO at university programs that prioritized MD applicants.

I’ve got a solid list overall, but in a normal year I think I would have had more choice in geography.
 
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Neopolymath

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Auditions don’t matter in rads. I did my only rads rotation at a solid community program where I got a LOR and have netted some big programs.

It’s been a wild ride for me. I think big name places that routinely take DOs actually do a better job evaluating apps and seeing who’s really interested. They also know their rep won’t take a hit because of having us.

However, I was really interested in less competitive local programs because I just wanted to stay close to home. And I don’t live in what most would consider a desirable area. But I got ghosted by most of them. And then you read the spreadsheet and realize you’re losing out to MDs with scores 20-30 points lower than you. So it’s like getting yield-protected out for having high stats at community programs AND discriminated against for being a DO at university programs that prioritized MD applicants.

I’ve got a solid list overall, but in a normal year I think I would have had more choice in geography.
Same experience here.
 
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FutureDoctor5000

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Auditions don’t matter in rads. I did my only rads rotation at a solid community program where I got a LOR and have netted some big programs.

It’s been a wild ride for me. I think big name places that routinely take DOs actually do a better job evaluating apps and seeing who’s really interested. They also know their rep won’t take a hit because of having us.

However, I was really interested in less competitive local programs because I just wanted to stay close to home. And I don’t live in what most would consider a desirable area. But I got ghosted by most of them. And then you read the spreadsheet and realize you’re losing out to MDs with scores 20-30 points lower than you. So it’s like getting yield-protected out for having high stats at community programs AND discriminated against for being a DO at university programs that prioritized MD applicants.

I’ve got a solid list overall, but in a normal year I think I would have had more choice in geography.
Ahh I see that does sound like a double whammy in terms of getting yield protected out of community programs, but it’s encouraging too see you have a nice list overall
 
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