MD & DO How do you relate to people outside of medicine?

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Styrene

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Does anyone else ever feel like there is an unbridgeable gap in communication and life experience when they see family or old friends from high school/college who are not involved in science and/or medicine?

For example, when I recently hung out with an old friend from high school, I felt somewhat disconnected since our school and work experiences are so vastly different now, and we just couldn’t relate on that level. Another: If a family member asks me what I’m learning in medical school, their eyes glaze over when I start to explain anything complicated.

I don’t plan on marriage, but is this why doctors marry doctors?

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Does anyone else ever feel like there is an unbridgeable gap in communication and life experience when they see family or old friends from high school/college who are not involved in science and/or medicine?

For example, when I recently hung out with an old friend from high school, I felt somewhat disconnected since our school and work experiences are so vastly different now, and we just couldn’t relate on that level. Another: If a family member asks me what I’m learning in medical school, their eyes glaze over when I start to explain anything complicated.

I don’t plan on marriage, but is this why doctors marry doctors?

I know what you're talking about

in part, yes
 
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Does anyone else ever feel like there is an unbridgeable gap in communication and life experience when they see family or old friends from high school/college who are not involved in science and/or medicine?

For example, when I recently hung out with an old friend from high school, I felt somewhat disconnected since our school and work experiences are so vastly different now, and we just couldn’t relate on that level. Another: If a family member asks me what I’m learning in medical school, their eyes glaze over when I start to explain anything complicated.

I don’t plan on marriage, but is this why doctors marry doctors?
Yep, medicine can be a jealous mistress, demanding so much of your time, your attention and your very self, even though you have other people and other things you want to spend your time and affections on instead. Medicine doesn't have to be this way, so consuming, but so often it is.

My solution is to work hard (in medicine), play hard (doing things I enjoy with people I enjoy), but never mix the two together. However, that is much easier said than done. Life as a doctor makes that very difficult to achieve because medicine keeps pulling you back in. Like I said, medicine can be a jealous mistress.
 
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In my own experience, I find the complete opposite to be true. Being from a more blue-collar background, I find myself communicating much more naturally and organically with people who are not in medicine, or the sciences in general. Most of my friends are from non-medical background, and I make it a point not to talk too much about medicine when outside the medical setting, unless someone asks about it, of course. That's not to say that I don't get along with my classmates, in med school, but I find myself much more comfortable around people who aren't.

Everyone is different, some get along easier with others outside medicine, some don't. I don't think it's good or bad either way, it's just who you are. I have shadowed and worked with many intelligent, motivated, caring, competent physicians who don't make medicine their whole life, and as a result, get along much better with their families, old friends, and neighbors. I have also worked with doctors who are just as caring and intelligent, but who see regular communication with others outside of medicine as uninteresting "small talk". Different folks, different strokes, and all that.
 
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Yep, medicine can be a jealous mistress, demanding so much of your time, your attention and your very self, even though you have other people and other things you want to spend your time and affections on instead. Medicine doesn't have to be this way, so consuming, but so often it is.

My solution is to work hard (in medicine), play hard (doing things I enjoy with people I enjoy), but never mix the two together. However, that is much easier said than done. Life as a doctor makes that very difficult to achieve because medicine keeps pulling you back in. Like I said, medicine can be a jealous mistress.

Becomes hard when you start to enjoy working the most...
 
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I have the opposite problem. I can't relate to most people in medicine. All my friends in my class came from upper class family or have docs in their fam. They tell stories about their childhood that are so bizarre and different than mine. Basically how I wished my childhood and life was (in terms of vacations etc.). Few people get my South Park references or can relate when I say my parents think I'm wasting my time in med shook (they wanted me to not go to college and go directly into the work force).

I'm not too bothered by it though. I'd personally be able to relate with the majority of the people in the world that aren't medical than only with the >1% of medical people.
 
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I have the opposite problem. I can't relate to most people in medicine. All my friends in my class came from upper class family or have docs in their fam. They tell stories about their childhood that are so bizarre and different than mine. Basically how I wished my childhood and life was (in terms of vacations etc.). Few people get my South Park references or can relate when I say my parents think I'm wasting my time in med shook (they wanted me to not go to college and go directly into the work force).

I'm not too bothered by it though. I'd personally be able to relate with the majority of the people in the world that aren't medical than only with the >1% of medical people.
I know that feel. I actually prefer non-med people to be the majority of my friends, as they keep me grounded and keep me from drifting into the med bubble.
 
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I prefer nonmed people for most my closest friends. I just don't talk medicine with them
 
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I was always into hanging out with non-medical people until recently. I finally found an area that I'm completely fascinated with and hanging out with the residents in that field just feels really natural. I've still got my friends from HS/college who are mostly non-medical, but it's been hard to keep up with them since I went 500 miles away for med school and the general business of medical school.
 
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Does anyone else ever feel like there is an unbridgeable gap in communication and life experience when they see family or old friends from high school/college who are not involved in science and/or medicine?

For example, when I recently hung out with an old friend from high school, I felt somewhat disconnected since our school and work experiences are so vastly different now, and we just couldn’t relate on that level. Another: If a family member asks me what I’m learning in medical school, their eyes glaze over when I start to explain anything complicated.

I don’t plan on marriage, but is this why doctors marry doctors?

Isn't that true of all technically educated or just insiders in all walks of life? I.E. serious religious kid becomes hot shot legit theologian from brand name program then comes back for church in home parish with a queasy feeling about how people express their concepts about their faith, law, MBA/finance, political career, military/law enforcement, support staff for any of the same and others unlisted?

I would say it sounds from where I'm listening from that the tail may be wagging the dog i.e. its great to be committed but if you literally can't relate to nonmedical people then I'd say you've become a medical person at the expense of a, well 'real-boy' type person. Like, one who can't talk about anything besides medicine because its hard to think seriously (or casually) about other topics. If that isn't the case, my guess is you wouldn't notice it outside medical topics. Except being puzzled over a 40 hour work week or concepts like 'overtime' :)?
 
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Like clergymen and morticians, doctors have the distinct pleasure of accompanying people in their last moments/seeing death (ahem, rads, path).

Most people chose not to share this experience. So our shamazing convos about, 'dude, there was blood in the gutter, AAA!', or 'we did a STAT crani but he's circling the drain anyway' just don't sit well.

I've learned to feel people out.
 
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I totally agree with you. Especially after third year, I would find myself becoming frustrated in conversations with friends outside of medicine. Sometimes it felt wrong to not be talking about serious things when you've just, for instance, ended a palliative care rotation where you met a 30-year old woman who died two weeks after admission from metastatic liver cancer. It's like, how are we talking about your favorite brunch spot right now, Carol?

Then, I met my current boyfriend. He's waaayyyyyy outside medicine. I like hanging out with all his non-medical friends. And one thing I try to do is just never talk about medicine/medical school unless I'm asked. 1) I don't think they really care beyond the "how are things going" 2) It's a good reprieve, sets life boundaries for myself.

Also, 3) Their lives are just as interesting, and I don't want to fall under the stereotype of a healthcare professional who thinks their work is the end-all, be-all, God's work, etc. etc.
 
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I totally agree with you. Especially after third year, I would find myself becoming frustrated in conversations with friends outside of medicine. Sometimes it felt wrong to not be talking about serious things when you've just, for instance, ended a palliative care rotation where you met a 30-year old woman who died two weeks after admission from metastatic liver cancer. It's like, how are we talking about your favorite brunch spot right now, Carol?

Then, I met my current boyfriend. He's waaayyyyyy outside medicine. I like hanging out with all his non-medical friends. And one thing I try to do is just never talk about medicine/medical school unless I'm asked. 1) I don't think they really care beyond the "how are things going" 2) It's a good reprieve, sets life boundaries for myself.

Also, 3) Their lives are just as interesting, and I don't want to fall under the stereotype of a healthcare professional who thinks their work is the end-all, be-all, God's work, etc. etc.
That's pretty much how I went over the years. At first it was all I could think about when I was a RT back in the day, but the magic wore off and it just became a job. To me, a patient dying was the equivalent of Jessica losing a client or Elizabeth not throwing a successful fundraiser, just a bad day on the job. Everything's relative, and work is boring talk, for the most part. So I swung back to being a normal person again, lest I sound like that accountant that won't stop talking about their job (because to most people, medicine is just as esoteric).
 
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In my own experience, I find the complete opposite to be true. Being from a more blue-collar background, I find myself communicating much more naturally and organically with people who are not in medicine, or the sciences in general. Most of my friends are from non-medical background, and I make it a point not to talk too much about medicine when outside the medical setting, unless someone asks about it, of course. That's not to say that I don't get along with my classmates, in med school, but I find myself much more comfortable around people who aren't.

Everyone is different, some get along easier with others outside medicine, some don't. I don't think it's good or bad either way, it's just who you are. I have shadowed and worked with many intelligent, motivated, caring, competent physicians who don't make medicine their whole life, and as a result, get along much better with their families, old friends, and neighbors. I have also worked with doctors who are just as caring and intelligent, but who see regular communication with others outside of medicine as uninteresting "small talk". Different folks, different strokes, and all that.

i think i agree with much of this.

for instance, im a non-trad student, second in my family to attend college, grew up poor, etc etc and i find it soups easy to *simply* explain doctor-y type things to patients, families and kids.

in regards to my classmates, im definitely Not One of Them and i seek to dissociate whenever possible. i understand the value of varying contributions as well as like-mindedness on a team working towards a specific goal (hello, residency?) but i definitely use my intentionally sought out time away from medicine to discuss everything but.

keeps me cool.

i feel more like a real person when i can swap recipes with my mom and talk sports knowledge (or lack thereof) with my dad, talk travel with my friends, as opposed to surviving pimp sessions on antibiotic algorithms. whitecoatwonder, M4 is my alter ego, not all of who i am.
 
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Does anyone else ever feel like there is an unbridgeable gap in communication and life experience when they see family or old friends from high school/college who are not involved in science and/or medicine?

No.
 
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When I was an MS-1, I was having a random conversation with a guy I used to be friends with. We were talking about photography, and I told him I wanted a certain lens but couldn’t afford to buy it.

He asked me why I didn’t have a job. I told him I was using student loans and moved back home with my parents to pay for school. He then said I must be doing it wrong if I can’t have a full-time job while going to medical school.

Says the community college dropout.
 
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Another: If a family member asks me what I’m learning in medical school, their eyes glaze over when I start to explain anything complicated.
I'm certain that when you're asked this, it's just to make pleasant small talk. They don't need a thesis.
 
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i feel more like a real person when i can swap recipes with my mom and talk sports knowledge (or lack thereof) with my dad, talk travel with my friends, as opposed to surviving pimp sessions on antibiotic algorithms. whitecoatwonder, M4 is my alter ego, not all of who i am.

Exactly how I feel. I go to a heavily research-focused school and I learned quickly that I am not an effective communicator with academics, scientists, or cutthroats. This is probably a small part of why I am most interested in emergency medicine: you're constantly communicating with peers from different educational and professional backgrounds, and with patients of all kinds of SES, race, ability, religion, etc. Seems more like a place I'd fit in. Just my own thoughts.
 
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Does anyone else ever feel like there is an unbridgeable gap in communication and life experience when they see family or old friends from high school/college who are not involved in science and/or medicine?

For example, when I recently hung out with an old friend from high school, I felt somewhat disconnected since our school and work experiences are so vastly different now, and we just couldn’t relate on that level. Another: If a family member asks me what I’m learning in medical school, their eyes glaze over when I start to explain anything complicated.

I don’t plan on marriage, but is this why doctors marry doctors?

No.

No.
 
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I don’t plan on marriage, but is this why doctors marry doctors?

No.

Doctors marry doctors because the training is so intensive and time consuming and it occurs during your prime dating years. As such, your dating pool becomes limited to your classmates and maybe your classmates friends.
 
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For the majority of us that enjoy free time to work, that sounds crazy :laugh:

Yeah I'm sure in 10 years when I'm a senior resident or young attending I'll feel differently, but I'm still in aware of all the things I see lol. #JustMS3Things

I was always into hanging out with non-medical people until recently. I finally found an area that I'm completely fascinated with and hanging out with the residents in that field just feels really natural. I've still got my friends from HS/college who are mostly non-medical, but it's been hard to keep up with them since I went 500 miles away for med school and the general business of medical school.

Seriously. The relationships you build when you move somewhere for one reason are often people connected to that one thing...
 
Isn't that true of all technically educated or just insiders in all walks of life? I.E. serious religious kid becomes hot shot legit theologian from brand name program then comes back for church in home parish with a queasy feeling about how people express their concepts about their faith, law, MBA/finance, political career, military/law enforcement, support staff for any of the same and others unlisted?

I would say it sounds from where I'm listening from that the tail may be wagging the dog i.e. its great to be committed but if you literally can't relate to nonmedical people then I'd say you've become a medical person at the expense of a, well 'real-boy' type person. Like, one who can't talk about anything besides medicine because its hard to think seriously (or casually) about other topics. If that isn't the case, my guess is you wouldn't notice it outside medical topics. Except being puzzled over a 40 hour work week or concepts like 'overtime' :)?

It's not a matter of being able to relate, it's a matter of difference of interest, and occasionally difference in intelligence/understanding of situations. Sure, there are still some things we talk about that we've got in common, but a lot of our interests are just different now, especially since many of my friends are at different points in their lives (some have multiple kids, others are still single and looking, others are single and just looking to hook up). A lot of us are just moving through life at different paces or have moved to different areas of the country, so keeping up just isn't as easy as keeping up with other med students who are literally going through the exact same thing as you.

At the same time, making new non-medical friends while in medical school can be really difficult as well. Making new friends requires some level of time commitment that just isn't available during certain periods of medical school and residency. For example, my non-medical friends where I'm at right now are mostly my SO's friends and co-workers. While some of them want to go out every weekend and go to happy hour multiple times/week, I just don't have the time to join them frequently. I know if my SO weren't a bridge and these were other people I was trying to stay friends with they'd have stopped asking me to hang out a long time ago because of how often I'd have to tell them no. It's just a difference in lifestyle that makes hanging out with med students who have the same schedule as you so much easier.

Plus my class size is pretty huge (250+), so it's a lot easier to find people that have the same interests as you than at some of the smaller schools with classes of 70-80 people.

When I was an MS-1, I was having a random conversation with a guy I used to be friends with. We were talking about photography, and I told him I wanted a certain lens but couldn’t afford to buy it.

He asked me why I didn’t have a job. I told him I was using student loans and moved back home with my parents to pay for school. He then said I must be doing it wrong if I can’t have a full-time job while going to medical school.

Says the community college dropout.

I've had similar situations once or twice, though not to that extent. Stuff like: "Hey, you should totally get tickets for this concert so we can go!" Meanwhile I don't have $100 bucks to drop for tickets this month and also can't afford to go to a concert the weekend before a final. Or when a friend from out of town says they'll be here for X weekend and gets upset that I can't hang out all weekend/most of the weekend because I've got a final or boards coming up. The few friends from HS/college are the ones that actually get that I (frequently) don't have time to hang out with them and are still cool with it. Unfortunately, I feel like a lot of people just don't get that outside of medicine and a few other hyper-demanding careers.
 
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No.

Doctors marry doctors because the training is so intensive and time consuming and it occurs during your prime dating years. As such, your dating pool becomes limited to your classmates and maybe your classmates friends.
That's a good point.
 
it becomes harder to talk to non med people but at the same time i appreciate talking to them a whole lot more since i get to disconnect. can't really do that with my med school friends.
 
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All of my real life friends do completely different things and it's sooo refreshing.
 
Does anyone else ever feel like there is an unbridgeable gap in communication and life experience when they see family or old friends from high school/college who are not involved in science and/or medicine?

No to the former, life experience is no longer a given regardless of age

The communication gap works two ways. How are you communicating?

For example, when I recently hung out with an old friend from high school, I felt somewhat disconnected since our school and work experiences are so vastly different now, and we just couldn’t relate on that level. Another: If a family member asks me what I’m learning in medical school, their eyes glaze over when I start to explain anything complicated.

Know your audience. You should know not to explain anything complicated to the uninitiated. You can break it down to an acceptable level given your audience. Present your material you know your audience will be able to assimilate and appreciate, so that their questions are answered and will want to know more. IOW, it isnt about you but about you teaching them. You are privileged to be receiving the education you are. Appreciate that few will get to do what you are doing, and give accordingly to others.
Be "other directed" as Carl Rogers would have said (Rogerian Psychology)

We are in a privileged category given our graduate degrees. It puts us at an exclusive level in society (top 10% some professors have told me). We should see our position as one where we are able to teach, empower, enrich and lead others. I like to use the word "minister" to others since I see medicine as a vocation. Our audience will not understand our journey. I dont think many of us know our journey. Yet we should expect nothing from others, give because we have received much, and we will eventually receive from the universe. When a mother expresses gratitude for healing her child, when a cancer patient shows appreciation for relieving them of pain, when a physician needs to blow off steam due to our current work, and later thanks me for listening.

Priceless.

Go at it
 
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I think it's a red flag if you can't have conversations with people outside of medicine.
For me personally, outside of work I rarely talk about work. I have a great work/life balance. Most of my friends are not fellow residents. Never once have I tried to explain anything complicated to anyone outside of work as I'm sure no one cares. Every once in awhile my dad will ask me about interesting cases or diagnoses and I give him a list and he looks things up because he enjoys that kind of thing.
You should broaden your horizons!
 
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Sports has always been the unifying theme between myself and my friends who aren't in medicine. The things I cannot relate to is the inability to be blunt when I think it is necessary. My sister works in a corporate environment and when things don't get done by her subordinates and she comes down on them, they say things like "that really hurts my feelings," or "I'm offended that you haven't acknowledged how hard I have been working." That makes zero sense to me. She gave me an example of asking one of her junior associates to have a formal bid completed and sent in before the day ended and it just didn't get done. If I asked an intern or junior resident to discharge a patient or order a CT scan and it just didn't get done...well, some strong words that may hurt some feelings may have been said. Thankfully, I work with a great group of fellow residents and this comprises most of my social interactions outside of the hospital since I'm doing my residency in a state far removed from my hometown friends. But the lack of incompetence and elevation of this thing called "feelings" when certain tasks just have to be completed is very foreign to me. I can't wait to go to my attending and say, "Dr. Program Director, it really troubles me that you haven't acknowledged how hard I am working."
 
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No to the former, life experience is no longer a given regardless of age

The communication gap works two ways. How are you communicating?



Know your audience. You should know not to explain anything complicated to the uninitiated. You can break it down to an acceptable level given your audience. Present your material you know your audience will be able to assimilate and appreciate, so that their questions are answered and will want to know more. IOW, it isnt about you but about you teaching them. You are privileged to be receiving the education you are. Appreciate that few will get to do what you are doing, and give accordingly to others.
Be "other directed" as Carl Rogers would have said (Rogerian Psychology)

We are in a privileged category given our graduate degrees. It puts us at an exclusive level in society (top 10% some professors have told me). We should see our position as one where we are able to teach, empower, enrich and lead others. I like to use the word "minister" to others since I see medicine as a vocation. Our audience will not understand our journey. I dont think many of us know our journey. Yet we should expect nothing from others, give because we have received much, and we will eventually receive from the universe. When a mother expresses gratitude for healing her child, when a cancer patient shows appreciation for relieving them of pain, when a physician needs to blow off steam due to our current work, and later thanks me for listening.

Priceless.

Go at it

This is a perfect example of why I didn't connect with many people in my medical school class. It was hard not to vomit while reading this.

Where are you in your education?
 
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This is a perfect example of why I didn't connect with many people in my medical school class. It was hard not to vomit while reading this.

Where are you in your education?
Same. Pretty much all friends are non-medical
 
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It's easier to talk to people outside of medicine. For one thing, they don't know what Step 1 is. Most people are impressed at what medical school I go to, and well I guess that I'm going be a doctor in a year. They think I'm intelligent (which no one in the medical field does given that my Step score).

My med school buddies will not wing man for me. They hit on the same exact chicks as I do (and I get turned down because I'm not 6'2 like they are). On the other hand, my non med school bros are in serious relationships and happy (f- me, I should have done something else with my life) and are always there to wing man for for me and make me sound intelligent and confident (obviously I'm not). Hanging out with them also helps relieve my anxiety a little.
 
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This is a perfect example of why I didn't connect with many people in my medical school class. It was hard not to vomit while reading this.

Where are you in your education?

Wait I just saw the quoted post, LMAO. I smell first-year blood; guy needs to get off his pedestal. We all put our pants on one leg at a time. That attitude is the quickest way to not have friends within and without the medical field
 
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Your family is your "family" and your high school peers are "high school peers."

Your relatives and high school peers have no reason to be passionate and fascinated about medicine. There is no compelling reason for them to be mesmerized by medical school adventures or to be impressed with the rest of us who have chosen medicine as our profession. Instead, they are probably passionate about their "own" interests, activities and careers. It's the way it is ... just saying.

Several of my very closest friends do not have careers in medicine.

One of them is a commercial airline pilot, another one is employed by a corporation, and another one is a teacher.

Among other things, my closest friendships are based on the quality of the friendship itself and our mutual interests; and not on the individual's professional career path. Our friendships are very balanced and meaningful, and have nothing to do with our respective professional careers.

[FWIW ... I don't discuss medicine very often with my closest friends or family anyway because most of those discussions would be related to my patients, and are therefore off-limits, based on doctor-patient confidentiality.]
 
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No to the former, life experience is no longer a given regardless of age

The communication gap works two ways. How are you communicating?



Know your audience. You should know not to explain anything complicated to the uninitiated. You can break it down to an acceptable level given your audience. Present your material you know your audience will be able to assimilate and appreciate, so that their questions are answered and will want to know more. IOW, it isnt about you but about you teaching them. You are privileged to be receiving the education you are. Appreciate that few will get to do what you are doing, and give accordingly to others.
Be "other directed" as Carl Rogers would have said (Rogerian Psychology)

We are in a privileged category given our graduate degrees. It puts us at an exclusive level in society (top 10% some professors have told me). We should see our position as one where we are able to teach, empower, enrich and lead others. I like to use the word "minister" to others since I see medicine as a vocation. Our audience will not understand our journey. I dont think many of us know our journey. Yet we should expect nothing from others, give because we have received much, and we will eventually receive from the universe. When a mother expresses gratitude for healing her child, when a cancer patient shows appreciation for relieving them of pain, when a physician needs to blow off steam due to our current work, and later thanks me for listening.

Priceless.

Go at it
You're everything that's wrong with everything.
 
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It's easier to talk to people outside of medicine. For one thing, they don't know what Step 1 is. Most people are impressed at what medical school I go to, and well I guess that I'm going be a doctor in a year. They think I'm intelligent (which no one in the medical field does given that my Step score).

My med school buddies will not wing man for me. They hit on the same exact chicks as I do (and I get turned down because I'm not 6'2 like they are). On the other hand, my non med school bros are in serious relationships and happy (f- me, I should have done something else with my life) and are always there to wing man for for me and make me sound intelligent and confident (obviously I'm not). Hanging out with them also helps relieve my anxiety a little.

doubt its because you aren't 6'2 lol
 
Yes but maybe it's not medicine but just the cumulative education you've received thus far. Knowledge and critical thinking are quite lacking these days of alternative facts, but I agree it can be difficult. There are so many times I just have to play dumb and nod my head, pretending to have no knowledge of the other person's "new" insights. I'm a big fan of Dale Carnegie, and yes pleasing people and making friends is largely about smiling, nodding, and asking the other person questions. The more you learn the worse it'll get. Ignorance is bliss has never been more true.

Oh and the more you engage in medical-speak, the more off the cuff diagnosing you'll have to do, so save yourself time and quickly change the subject to what the other person is interested in.
 
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