How DO you tell if a match list is good or not?

[Pewl]

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I know this question has been asked before but I am still really wondering how you can tell whether or not a match list is good.

I'm personally interested in radiation oncology and radiology, so to me the more people they match into these two residencies the better I consider the list. I know this is probably inaccurate so could somebody tell me another way to determine how good a match list is? =P

 

[Messerschmitts]

I would eagerly like to know the answer to this as well

 

[Law2Doc]

I know this question has been asked before but I am still really wondering how you can tell whether or not a match list is good.

I'm personally interested in radiation oncology and radiology, so to me the more people they match into these two residencies the better I consider the list. I know this is probably inaccurate so could somebody tell me another way to determine how good a match list is? =P

As a premed, you can look at specialties, but really won't have a good sense. I wouldn't bother with it. I mean, you can look at matches into the various competitive specialties, and count the number but what does that really tell you? And even within that number, how can you know if radiology at XYZ hospital is better or worse than at PDQ hospital? Or perhaps MNO is really the "mecca" of rad onc even though the school it is affiliated with isn't at the top of the US News list.The only good way to know if it is a truly good match list would be to find yourself either a med school level advisor, or else a person in your desired field, show him/her the list and ask. They will know what the big places are in that field and can thus tell you if its a good list.
However virtually every med student changes their decision as to desired specialty at least once in med school. Some change many times. So just because you like the idea of rads now may not be the case in a few years once you have seen it and other things. Also bear in mind that even if 10% of a class match into competitive specialties, that doesn't mean much if the other 90% get less than desirable places. It's far more likely you will be in the other 90%. (9x more likely 🙂 ). Hope that helps (although I assume it just confounds the issue).

 

[ExtraCrispy]

A good gauge is to find out what percentage of students match within their top three choices. Also look at how many people don't match and have to scramble.

Looking at how many students enter a particular specialty each year isn't as helpful b/c this varies widely from year to year. For example, at my program, only two people applied in General Surgery last year, and this year that number went up to 22! A better gauge is how *competitive* the programs are where people are matching - if you see a lot of big-name university programs on the match list, chances are it's a good school.

 

[exmike]

A good gauge is to find out what percentage of students match within their top three choices. Also look at how many people don't match and have to scramble.

Looking at how many students enter a particular specialty each year isn't as helpful b/c this varies widely from year to year. For example, at my program, only two people applied in General Surgery last year, and this year that number went up to 22! A better gauge is how *competitive* the programs are where people are matching - if you see a lot of big-name university programs on the match list, chances are it's a good school.

Good in theory, but how many schools actually tell you how many students get into their top three choices?

As time goes on I have decided that there are far too many variables to determine what is a "good" match list. This is because student preference varies so wildly in terms of specialty choice, location preference, etc. What if by some odd chance the entire class at Hopkins med wanted to do family practice, and they all came from montana so wanted to go home for residency. If you looked at a matchlist with everyone going into family practice in montana, you'd say 'hey, this school doesnt match very competitively', but what underlies the match list is student preference which can vary wildly from year to year.

 

[Gut Shot]

I know this is probably inaccurate so could somebody tell me another way to determine how good a match list is? =P

There is no good way (for reasons mentioned above). Your record is going to count waaaaaay more than the name on your diploma, so worry about choosing a school for other reasons. If you're good enough to match into radiology or rad onc from school A, you're good enough to match from school B. If you're so concerned that a given school's reputation is going to be the deciding factor in the match, you're really selling yourself short.

 

[ND2005]

A good gauge is to find out what percentage of students match within their top three choices. Also look at how many people don't match and have to scramble.

The top 3 choices thing is going out of style. There were problems in the past with schools encouraging lower-caliber students to put "safety" residencies in their top 3, so that the school could still get away with saying they matched over XX% into their top choices

 

[Labslave]

The top 3 choices thing is going out of style. There were problems in the past with schools encouraging lower-caliber students to put "safety" residencies in their top 3, so that the school could still get away with saying they matched over XX% into their top choices

Yup, great point. I heard the same thing, and this comment was going to be my contribution to the thread.

It's definitely the case that there are too many variables to consider when judging a match list as someone who hasn't stepped foot into a med school lecture hall. "Better" schools are likely to have "better" match lists because they attract "better" students in the first place, etc.

 

[happydays]

You can call the schools to ask how many students are satisfied or very satisfied with their matches.

 

[tigress]

This is a great thread. I never get it when people say a school looks great because of its match list. Seriously, I look at a match list and see a bunch of hospitals. How would I know which ones are good for each speciality? Sure, I know I'm interested in EM, so I've looked at the EM forum and read what people there think. But generally they'll list the top 20 or so programs, and that's really not an issue for me. I just want to make sure that people are matching into strong places.

The truth is, I've seen people matching to MGH, etc., from every school I've looked at match lists from. So I've decided that matching is probably determined for a large part by the individual. I'm sure it's easier to get into some programs from top schools, but for my goals in life I'd be good at any school (in terms of matching). So then my issue just becomes how well does a particular school train students to function as residents. THAT is something I'm having trouble figuring out, except by reputation and by asking students and residents themselves. It would be great to know some attendings somewhere who could give me input on the issue.

 

[ND2005]

This is a great thread. I never get it when people say a school looks great because of its match list. Seriously, I look at a match list and see a bunch of hospitals. How would I know which ones are good for each speciality?

Thank you! This is exactly how I feel. I just see a bunch of hospitals, most of which I've never heard of. Sometimes I'm like: ooh...Mayo...that sounds impressive! but that's about it.

It probably doesn't help that I have no clue what specialty I want to go into.

 

[matthew45]

It is really hard to know. I know at my school last year we put over 15 people into a fairly competitive field and this year it's going to be less than 10. Also you never really know how to read the fact that alot of people do things like FP or IM or Peds at community programs. Some of the smartest, greatest people I know in med school want to do FP (considered a low prestige, easy match). These are not things I would trouble yourself with too greatly, go where you think you'll fit in. Residency is a long way away and by the time it comes around you'll have probably changed your mind about specialties at least once.

 

[gdbaby]

This thread has been soooo helpful! Five stars! I have been so worried about the schools to which I have been accepted: I felt really welcomed there and the students say they are happy, but then I think "what about hthe match lists?" To be honest, I don't even know why I ask the question of myself since , until SDN, I had no idea what a match list was and until this thread, I had no idea why I should care. Crikies, I am such a lemming.

 

[Hawkeye Kid]

I am sooooo glad that this thread has gone in the direction it has--you folks have it figured out. Everyone is very correct that there are far too many factors for anyone--let alone a pre-med who likely doesn't know enough about them--to draw conclusions about a school from its match list.

For example, my roommate and I are both fairly competitive applicants; me in EM and him in ortho. We both applied to 20-30 programs, almost all of which are considered strong programs in our respective fields. I think we ended up applying to ONE of the same places; some of his top choices for ortho have EM programs that are weak/less-competitive.

Also, number of students not matching isn't a great surrogate, either, because for the most part, the students that don't match aren't the dumb ones. It's typically relatively strong applicants that, for whatever reason (most likely overestimating their competitiveness), they play the match game wrong and don't match. The weaker applicants (the ones that realize they're weak, at least) tend to play the game correctly because they just want to match, and they do.

Y'all are right about the "top 3" thing. In fact, the AAMC has stopped reporting that statistic because of several factors (improper advising among them).

In a nutshell, a match list can be interesting to look at, but it shouldn't play much of a role (if any) in deciding where to go to medical school--there are just too many variables that you can't possilby know about or account for in evaluating the school via the list. Go where you want to go and will be happy, bust ass, and you'll end up somewhere you want to be.

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

i suspect a strong geographic preference factor is at work for the university of florida match list. it's a top 50 school and soooo many people match in places in florida! floridians don't like cold.

 

[Pewl]

The reason I'm leaning towards rad onc is because my graduate work is in biomedical physics, with a specialty in rad onc. I know that there aren't that many spots and over the last few years it's gotten increasingly competitive. I always see that schools match at most one or two people per class into it.

What I seem to notice, however, is that who you know is often more important than what you know when it comes to residency matching.

 

[owenmichael]

I know this question has been asked before but I am still really wondering how you can tell whether or not a match list is good.

I'm personally interested in radiation oncology and radiology, so to me the more people they match into these two residencies the better I consider the list. I know this is probably inaccurate so could somebody tell me another way to determine how good a match list is? =P

1) Look at how many kids got into top 10 or even top 50 hospitals (i.e. Mayo, JHU, Duke etc...)
2) Check out how many people placed into tought specialities (i.e. ortho, radiology etc...)

Note: Although I know alot of people say specialty can vary based on student, I still think WHERE someone does residency says alot about their training at a med school/ board scores. So even if you are just going into internal medicine, WHERE You do your residency for internal medicine still demonstrates how successful you were.
Again this can even vary if you are shooting for location over exceptional hospitals. But we need some mode of comparison and these factors seem to be the best

 

[exmike]

1) Look at how many kids got into top 10 or even top 50 hospitals (i.e. Mayo, JHU, Duke etc...)
2) Check out how many people placed into tought specialities (i.e. ortho, radiology etc...)

Note: Although I know alot of people say specialty can vary based on student, I still think WHERE someone does residency says alot about their training at a med school/ board scores. So even if you are just going into internal medicine, WHERE You do your residency for internal medicine still demonstrates how successful you were.
Again this can even vary if you are shooting for location over exceptional hospitals. But we need some mode of comparison and these factors seem to be the best

You miss the point that regional variation plays a lot into where people go. there are very few academic medical centeres in southern california, yet i would argue that a large number of top students would still prefert to do residency there. And what exactly is an "exceptional" hospital? One that is affiliated with a certain med school? What us news says? its just too hard to sort out the contributing factors.

I go to a decent medical school. But I have a strong interest in family practice or IM, and I would prefer to be in southern california. So If i match FP/IM at Kaiser Orange County.. you would say that is a weak match since its not a competitive specialty nor is it an exceptional academic medical center. (yet kaiser OC is one of the most sought after residencies in the so cal area for primary care). So my personal preference, according to your method, would make my school's match list appear less exceptional? As much as I would like some way to objectively compare match lists, there just isnt any good way to do it.

 

[Brainsucker]

You can't learn much just looking at one match list for a competitive specialty. Learn where the top programs are in whatever you're interested in then ask for the match lists from the last few years. That should give you a good idea. Also remember that the culture of a school will determine what people try to match in. (You shouldn't expect that many people trying to match into a subspecialty from a school that emphasizes primary care.) If you look at all specialties you'll drive yourself nuts trying to figure out what residencies are competitive.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Hawkeye, overall I agree. For EM for example the big hitters like Harvard, Hopkins, Mayo and yale are all good programs but they arent gods gift like in some other fields.

I still think you can boil it down like this.. Look at the past 2-3 years and see how many people go into the competitive fields. This is an imperfect but easy way to get an idea.

It is imperfect but a start. The whole top 3 thing is complete bs because what if an applicant didnt even get an interview at his original top 3. In the end if a lot of people go into competitive fields then that signals that if you do well you will have the same opportunity. If you go to a school with few people going into competitive fields it should signal something to you IMO.

I know some places "emphasize" primary care and thats really great but the stat I heard was the avg med student changes their mind 3 times. I want to go to a place which wont limit me.

Note that this is simply the simple opinions of a simple man!

 

[drmota]

honestly, the best way to go about is have a resident or doctor take a look at it and give you his/her opinion. they've gone through it and seen tons of their friends go through it too in different specialties.
-dr. mota

 

[bsteves4]

this is a great post... im just a rookie myself, but i think its fair to say that most people on this post correctly agree that

a) match lists in general are not a very accurate gauge for how good a school is
b) the top 3 chocies=>% idea is open to alot of skewing
c) doing very well at a "lesser" school is often looked upon better than average at a "top" school

and of course lets not lie to ourselves... there are some schools whose name alone will garner you a second look from many residencies (harvard, jhu, etc.)

 

[tigress]

You can't learn much just looking at one match list for a competitive specialty. Learn where the top programs are in whatever you're interested in then ask for the match lists from the last few years. That should give you a good idea. Also remember that the culture of a school will determine what people try to match in. (You shouldn't expect that many people trying to match into a subspecialty from a school that emphasizes primary care.) If you look at all specialties you'll drive yourself nuts trying to figure out what residencies are competitive.

But I don't even think this works. Because you can never know what a person wanted when they were matching. Some people want to go into academic medicine, some want to go into private practice. For some people location is absolutely essential, whereas others couldn't care. Some people might really want to match into a small private community hospital because that suits their goals, while others might want to match into the top academic research institution because that suits theirs.

So in the end, go where you're happy, where you think you'll get good training, and ideally the least expensive place possible, and try to match wherever is best for you. That's my philosophy.

 

[Law2Doc]

I still think you can boil it down like this.. Look at the past 2-3 years and see how many people go into the competitive fields. This is an imperfect but easy way to get an idea.

The big drawback with this is that a school where eg. an amazing 20% of the students get into ultra competitive residencies is simply not a better match list if the other 80% are scraping the bottom of the barrell or scrambling. In all probability a typical matriculant is more likely to be in that other 80%. A much better match list criteria would be one where the AVERAGE students get at least average matches. Because that is what is going to matter to the average matriculant. I'm positive you would not be able to figure this out from a school's list though, and thus simply no point in looking at it or worrying about it. Use other yardsticks by which to judge a school.

 

[Brainsucker]

But I don't even think this works. Because you can never know what a person wanted when they were matching. Some people want to go into academic medicine, some want to go into private practice. For some people location is absolutely essential, whereas others couldn't care. Some people might really want to match into a small private community hospital because that suits their goals, while others might want to match into the top academic research institution because that suits theirs.

So in the end, go where you're happy, where you think you'll get good training, and ideally the least expensive place possible, and try to match wherever is best for you. That's my philosophy.

What people at the schools you're interested in wanted is also a relevant factor for where you want to go. Personally, I feel like a school that produces tons of specialists who go into academic medicine will still prepare you well if you want to go to a community hospital for a family practice residency, but I wouldn't want to study at a primary care oriented place then attempt to match in a competitive, research intensive specialty.

 

[Duke_David]

Look for consistency from year to year in terms of types of specialties and programs. IF you see some consistencies, then you can make some valid inferences about the school. So, for example, if a school typically has a high percentage of students going to community hospitals rather than academic centers, you can assume they are training more generalist physicians who will be providing care in practice as their first job rather than doing a fellowship. This means a lot about the orientation of the school and the types of students you will be around. On the other hand, if you see a large diversity of types of residencies, community based settings, and academic settings then you can infer that the medical school also has a lot of diversity and quality across the board, so that you won’t be gently nudged (implicitly or explicitly) towards certain fields. Don’t worry about what you think you want to do now, as there is a high likelihood your mind will change!

Look to see how many students are matching at schools that you feel have the best reputation in the country. Remember that AOA is the top decile or so of all students, and most programs consider the top 5% of students at any program as highly qualified. If you don’t see 5-10% of the students matching at a “top reputation” program, then there’s a chance that the medical school isn’t perceived by others as preparing their best students for top residencies. It also likely means that the students may have scored lower on Parts 1 and 2 of the boards, so that they weren’t candidates for the top residency programs. (By the way, the correlation between top reputation and quality of the training is ‘positive’ for a reason. There is an important correlation when it comes to residency training, particularly if you think you may be going on to fellowship training). If you think you might do a Fellowship after residency, or go into academic medicine, the place you do your residency is hugely important. If you really want to do your residency in a competitive San Francisco or Boston area program (for example), and no one from the medical school has matched there for 3-4y, it’s probably a bad assumption that you’ll be the first. Remember, there’s a reason for the patterns you see in the match lists.

Look to see how many students do their residency in the same place as their medical school. Certainly, there ought to be a fair percentage because it means that the student thought so highly of their own program that they opted to stay there. Of course, it could be because they couldn’t match anywhere else, but that’s not likely going to be the case when you look at the entire class. To get a sense for whether the number is “too” high, you have to compare the school to others in terms of matching their own. And, you have to ask students on your interview trip whether those who matched there matched because it was their first choice (as opposed to a safe choice).

 

[drmota]

this is a good match list:
http://www.som.tulane.edu/studentaffairs/MATCH 2005.htm

anything else is crap basically.
-dr. mota

 

[EctopicFetus]

The big drawback with this is that a school where eg. an amazing 20% of the students get into ultra competitive residencies is simply not a better match list if the other 80% are scraping the bottom of the barrell or scrambling. In all probability a typical matriculant is more likely to be in that other 80%. A much better match list criteria would be one where the AVERAGE students get at least average matches. Because that is what is going to matter to the average matriculant. I'm positive you would not be able to figure this out from a school's list though, and thus simply no point in looking at it or worrying about it. Use other yardsticks by which to judge a school.

As I said imperfect but easy. Thing is my school RFU has a so so rep. We have a solid Match List, this yr will be the same. My way is simple and gets you an idea.. Other methods are way too hard. Truth is you are right about where the other 80% go although it is usually closer to 40-50%. But this way you have an idea of where the avg people go!

 

[EctopicFetus]

Lastly, picking by where they end up is a poor way of doing it only because people usually want to stay local and sometimes they have to go a little lower on the prestige rating for location! Just my opinion of course!

 

[Hawkeye Kid]

EF--you got my point. EM happens to be a perfect example in part because it's new, so the top programs tend to be at places with less tradition in med, surg, etc (harvard, mayo, etc--not that these aren't great EM programs, but they're not usually on EM folks' top 5s).

Another thing to remember is that a match list isn't necessarily a match list at all. At least at MCW, it just shows where people are going for internship; ie. if you scramble into medicine at harvard, it looks like you matched there--there's no indication that you initially failed to match and that you happened to land a coveted spot in the scramble. A great example would be a few years back when Duke's new EM program scrambled their ENTIRE class--you'd look and say "wow, this chick matched Duke EM" when in fact she scrambled into a new, unknown program. Just something to think about...

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

Does anyone have a link to that thread with all the match lists...I've searched "match lists" "residency placement" etc and can't find it...

EDIT: Nevermind...Found it.
FYI: Residency Match Lists: Where Medical School Graduates Go after Graduation

 

[Art]

Another potential tool for evaluating a school when considering residency matching would be to look at the US News assessment score by residency directors. According to the website the score is determined as follows “In the fall of 2004, residency program directors were asked to rate programs on two separate survey instruments. One survey dealt with research and was sent to a sample of residency program directors in fields outside primary care, including surgery, psychiatry, and radiology. The other survey involved primary care and was sent to residency directors in the fields of family practice, pediatrics, and internal medicine. Survey recipients were asked to rate programs on a scale from "marginal" (1) to "outstanding" (5). Those individuals who did not know enough about a program to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know." A school's score is the average of all the respondents who rated it. Responses of "don't know" counted neither for nor against a school. About 29 percent of those surveyed for research medical schools responded. Twenty-eight percent responded for primary-care.”

In the match process, the residency director lists who they want and the students lists the programs that they want, and then they are “matched”. Part of the decision by the residency director may be related to how they feel about the medical school, i.e. students from this medical school have been pretty well trained in the past so this student will also be good. Of course you should not use a single variable to decide on a school.

However, it is interesting to look at the website. The University of Washington is ranked 7th overall, and Mayo is ranked 23rd overall. But both have the same residency director assessment score, 4.1. And the traditional powerhouses, Harvard, Hopkins and Duke are at the very top.

 

[infiniti]

I think matchlists should be used qualitatively. I say this because unlike application to med school, med school graduates (doctors, I should say) make decisions on things like family, interests, location e.t.c. UCSF (my favorite school) is a case in point. When you take a look at their match list, you will see that a bunch of students (majority) end up matching into Californian programs. To someone who has no experience with match lists, you could say, "men not too many people are going to MGH,(although a huge proportion of students match into hospitals affliated with UCSF, UCLA, stanford e.tc) hence they don't have the best match list". Such analysis cannot be further from the truth. UCSF students concentrate in California for residency because that is where they find attractive. Looking at the matchlist and talking to instructors at UCSF, it became apparent that the few (not many students want to leave Cali) who desire to go to MGH and other top programs in the east and midwest often have no problems doing so (as UCSF grads are in high demand from top programs).

Hence, a match list is only useful when it takes into account the desire of the applicants. This can roughly be estimated by fraction who got their top choice. The desire of the applicant is key, any factor other than this is quite insignificant!

 

[tigress]

I guess I"ll weight in on this one more time, even though we're just repeating ourselves at this point. Two posts ago Art made a good point, but failed to consider what Hawkeye Kid and many others have said -- program rankings can be vastly different for different specialties. The schools that are awesome in one speciality may be no-names in another. So just considering the overall prestige of an institution isn't always helpful. Also, rankings such as those are generally for the top-ranked academic institutions, while many residencies are at private hospitals or hospital systems.

And of course infiniti is making very good points, but again brings up the problem about how many people get their first or second choice. Intelligent applicants will apply to and rank programs they know they have a shot of getting into, which can skew that sort of data. If I had barely passing board scores, a failed and repeated pre-clinical class, and no honors on any rotations, for example, I would apply to very different programs than I would if I had stellar scores and grades and honors on tons of rotations. And in either situation I'd be happy to match at my top choice, but it wouldn't say much about the school's ability to get me into a residency. Although I suppose if you look at the whole list overall and you see quite a few good matches it means that residency directors at least take that school's applicants seriously. I'm just not sure if you would find ANY match list from a US allopathic med school that didn't have at least a few top name programs on it.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

Consider these two match lists for the most popular specialty (internal medicine)

School A (High ranked)
Internal Medicine 42
B I Deaconess Med Ctr-MA
B I Deaconess Med Ctr-MA
Brigham & Womens Hosp-MA
Brown U Int Med Res-RI
Geisinger Health System-PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Hosp of the Univ of PA
Johns Hopkins Hosp-MD
Massachusetts Gen Hosp
Massachusetts Gen Hosp
Massachusetts Gen Hosp
Massachusetts Gen Hosp
Mt Sinai Hospital-NY
Mt Sinai Hospital-NY
NYP Hosp-Colum Presby-NY
NYP Hosp-Colum Presby-NY
NYP Hosp-Colum Presby-NY
NYP Hosp-NY Cornell-NY
NYP Hosp-NY Cornell-NY
Temple Univ Hosp-PA
Tulane Univ SOM-LA
U Colorado SOM-Denver
U TX SW Med Sch-Dallas
U Washington Affil Hosps
UC San Diego Med Ctr-CA
UC San Francisco-CA
UCLA Medical Center-CA
UCLA Medical Center-CA
VA Greater LA Hlth Sys-CA

School B (unranked)
Internal Medicne (54)
Beth Israel Deaconess Med Ctr 1
Boston U Medical Ctr 4
Cedars-Sinai Medical Center 1
Einstein/Jacobi Med. Ctr.-NY 1
Exempla St. Joseph Hosp 1
Georgetown University Hospital 1
Greenwich Hospital 1
Harbor-UCLA Med Ctr 1
Johns Hopkins U/Bayview Med Ctr. 1
Long Island Jewish Med. Ctr. 1
Loyola University Med. Center 1
Maimonides Medical Center 1
Massachusetts General Hosp. 1
Mayo Graduate SOM 1
Montefiore/Einstein Affil. Hosps 4
N.Y.U. Medical Center 1
NY Hosp/Med Ctr Queens 1
Portsmouth Naval Hospital 1
San Antonio Uniformed Serv. Hlth 1
San Diego Naval Med Center 3
Scripps Clinic-Green Hospital 1
St. Vincents Hosp - Manh 6
The Johns Hopkins Hospital 1
The Mount Sinai Hospital 1
The New York Hosp. Cornell 1
Tulane Univ. School of Medicine 1
U Rochester/Strong Memorial 2
U.C.L.A. Medical Center 1
UMDNJ-Robert W. Johnson Med. Sch 1
Univ. of CA-Davis Med. Ctr. 1
Univ. of CA-Irvine Medical Cente 1
Univ. of Colorado Sch. of Med. 1
Univ. of Michigan Hosps. 1
Univ. of Minnesota Hosp. & Clini 1
Univ. of Washington Affil. Hosps 1
USC Med Center 1
VA Greater LA HealthCare System 1
Virginia Mason Hosp. 1
Washington Hospital Center 1
Winthrop-University Hospital 1


If you compare School A with School B, you notice that School A has multiple graduates matching into the same big-name hospital, whereas School B has only 1 graduate matching per big-name hospital.

I showed these two lists to a doc and he said that residency directors probably seek students from School A, while students from School B have to prove why they are better than the students from School A.

Graduates from School A have a huge advantage applying to residency at big-name hospitals because directors are impressed with most students coming from School A, even if they didnt graduate at the top of their class. Program directors may not be familiar with School B, and may only accept students from School B who are AOA, graduate at the top of their class, etc.

 

[DrRads101]

^

What I see in School A is a ton of people who want to live in Northeast, whereas School B seems to have a more diverse student body from around the country.

I go to Northwestern. EVERYONE I know is from a different state here. The goal of the administration is to have a very diverse class from people from around the country. I'm sure our match list would look more like B simply because our class will be applying, as a whole, all over the place, whereas each individual will be applying to his/her geographical preference. Californians back to California, Wisconsinites back to Wisconsin, New Yorkers back to New York. What I see in School A is that everyone wants to live in the Northeast which tells me they are probably from there, save for a few people from California it looks like.

The people in page 1 in this thread had it right. There is absolutely no way to judge the "quality" of a match list. It is a non-topic and a non-issue that only pre-meds care about because they aren't even in medical school yet. The ONLY legitimate way to judge the "quality" of a match list is to poll an entire class and ask each individual if they are happy where they matched, because ONLY THEY KNOW WHERE THEY APPLIED AND WHERE THEY WANTED TO GO.

 

[Gut Shot]

Graduates from School A have a huge advantage applying to residency at big-name hospitals because directors are impressed with most students coming from School A, even if they didnt graduate at the top of their class. Program directors may not be familiar with School B, and may only accept students from School B who are AOA, graduate at the top of their class, etc.

Your proposition is loaded. Comparing a "highly ranked" school's list with an unranked school's list is a no-brainer. I don't need a detailed analysis of quarterback ratings to know that Joe Montana is better than Ryan Leaf.

The problem presented in this thread is that people want to determine criteria for splitting hairs. A better comparison would be School B and my alma mater:

School B (unranked)
Internal Medicne (54)
Beth Israel Deaconess Med Ctr 1
Boston U Medical Ctr 4
Cedars-Sinai Medical Center 1
Einstein/Jacobi Med. Ctr.-NY 1
Exempla St. Joseph Hosp 1
Georgetown University Hospital 1
Greenwich Hospital 1
Harbor-UCLA Med Ctr 1
Johns Hopkins U/Bayview Med Ctr. 1
Long Island Jewish Med. Ctr. 1
Loyola University Med. Center 1
Maimonides Medical Center 1
Massachusetts General Hosp. 1
Mayo Graduate SOM 1
Montefiore/Einstein Affil. Hosps 4
N.Y.U. Medical Center 1
NY Hosp/Med Ctr Queens 1
Portsmouth Naval Hospital 1
San Antonio Uniformed Serv. Hlth 1
San Diego Naval Med Center 3
Scripps Clinic-Green Hospital 1
St. Vincents Hosp - Manh 6
The Johns Hopkins Hospital 1
The Mount Sinai Hospital 1
The New York Hosp. Cornell 1
Tulane Univ. School of Medicine 1
U Rochester/Strong Memorial 2
U.C.L.A. Medical Center 1
UMDNJ-Robert W. Johnson Med. Sch 1
Univ. of CA-Davis Med. Ctr. 1
Univ. of CA-Irvine Medical Cente 1
Univ. of Colorado Sch. of Med. 1
Univ. of Michigan Hosps. 1
Univ. of Minnesota Hosp. & Clini 1
Univ. of Washington Affil. Hosps 1
USC Med Center 1
VA Greater LA HealthCare System 1
Virginia Mason Hosp. 1
Washington Hospital Center 1
Winthrop-University Hospital 1

VCU-MCV (ranked 60-ish?)
Internal Medicine (56)
Brown
Cornell
Emory (2)
Emory (primary care)
EVMS (geriatrics)
EVMS (prelim)
Frankford Hospital - Philadelphia
Georgetown (prelim)
Johns Hopkins
Kaiser – Santa Clara
Keesler Air Force Base
Mass General
Medical University of South Carolina
Milton Hershey Med Center – Penn State University
Northwestern
St. Vincent Hospital – Indianapolis
Temple
UC - Davis
University of Florida
University of Maryland
University of Michigan
UNC
UNC (prelim)
University of Washington
VCU (8)
VCU (prelim) (13)
VCU (primary care)
VCU (women’s health) (3)
Wake Forest (prelim)
Washington Hospital Center
Washington Hospital Center (prelim) (2)
Wash U
York Hospital (prelim)

Now, if you can find a way to draw a strong conclusion by comparing these two lists, I would like to see it.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

Your proposition is loaded. Comparing a "highly ranked" school's list with an unranked school's list is a no-brainer. I don't need a detailed analysis of quarterback ratings to know that Joe Montana is better than Ryan Leaf.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but a very large amount of people claim that it doesn't matter whether you go to School A or School B if you want to do IM at MGH, Hopkins, NYP, HUP, etc.

Unranked schools still have their merits, but I would never bet on a Leaf as quarterback. (Holiday Bowl, Oregon vs. Oklahoma, are you kidding me Brady Leaf?!?!)

 

[Law2Doc]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but a very large amount of people claim that it doesn't matter whether you go to School A or School B if you want to do IM at MGH, Hopkins, NYP, HUP, etc.

And that is a reason why US News is perhaps of some modest use in choosing between schools (ranked more than 15-20 spots from each other), but a match list really isn't helpful to a premed in any event.