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After med school, is pain medicine a residency or fellowship? If it's a fellowship, what residency should one go into to do a fellowship in pain medicine?
Everywhere I have ever applied for credentialing or even state licensure, they always ask about Specialty Board Certification. Are there places in the country that this is still optional?
Probably am cynical about this but the hypocrisy and intransigence of the current fellowship program directors holding an entire specialty back from advancement while at the same time opening the door to CRNAs, untrained PCPs, and even those with one internship year of training to call themselves pain physicians. The current system has 40% of those with "special qualifications in pain medicine" having been certified without any training at all in pain medicine and 56% more trained in programs that were not standardized to provide any rational level of competence assessment or adequacy. Only since 2008, 16 years after the first pain fellowships opened, have the pain programs adopted any standard curriculum. But guess what? They are still a joke. The requirement for interventional pain training in a pain fellowship is 20 procedures. Period. For the entire fellowship. I suppose I am just disgusted our illustrious leaders have not pulled their heads out of the sand and fail to realize the permanent damage their inaction and adoption of ridiculously low standards are causing.
ABMS is definitely not on board and is overtly hostile to the prospect of a pain specialty or to any entity that is not part of its current core boards. Anesthesiology is hostile to anyone that would encroach on their paternalistic turf of pain, including control over pain fellowships. The ACGME wants all players to agree on a course of action, which in effect is being blocked by a filibustering group of fellowship chairs that prefer the status quo. ISIS is not an entity with a broad enough scope to stand as a certifying body for all of pain medicine while ASIPP has too many political axes to grind to be perceived as neutral and unbiased and becomes fixated on non sequitur issues that are not germane to the majority of pain physicians (eg. facility fee ASC reimbursement). So there are definitely challenges ahead....
Anesthesiology and PMR and neurology give you a background that is largely not used in daily clinical practice of pain medicine therefore we need a residency program, not a fellowship. We are wasting valuable years of the lives of resident physicians needlessly.
That's not completely true...I made some great drinking/golfing buddies during residency. Also if you wanted to be taken seriously as a pain certifying board you should probably change the web address for ISIS...someting tells me "spinalinjection.com" may be viewed as biased
That's not completely true...I made some great drinking/golfing buddies during residency. Also if you wanted to be taken seriously as a pain certifying board you should probably change the web address for ISIS...someting tells me "spinalinjection.com" may be viewed as biased
I agree with the above. SPINALINJECTION.com has a very bad connotation to it. I think it would be more credible with a 'softer' URL name.
In terms of credentialling etc. Arent there many societies that one can get 'boarded' by in pain. Back in the day it was just the ABA. Now doesnt ASIPP have their "ABIPP". I think Am Acad of Pain Med also has one (FAPM).
We can sit here and argue about which one is 'better'. My understanding is that hospital adms doesn't care as long as it's one of these 'boards'. Plus, let's say one is board certified in Anesthesiology and then pursues a ACGME Pain Fellowship. That individual already has one ABA board certification. Do hospitals realize that the ABA cert was in Anesthesiology and not in Pain Med?
The one thing I do agree with is that I dont think the answer is to increase residency time while at the same time 'fast tracking' nurses,etc. We're making our own obselete. I think there is value to having an anesthesia background for example. For example if stuff guys wrong in your podunk pain clinic (allergic rxn to contrast, or very bad bradycardia) you will quickly put on your Anesthesiologist hate and intubate, ventilate, give the proper RXs to resuscitate a patient. I dont think just doing a 1 year or 1 month anesthesia rotation will give you that ability to intervene in a second nature manner. After seeing a lot of poop hitting the fan in residency one quickly realizes how bad things can be if resuscitation isn't undergone quickly, calmly, and effectively..
Young, cocky, and stupid.... Those were the days..
Sleepisgood....careful saying anything not praising PM&R around this place...apparently it makes you young, cocky and stupid...apparently being on the ISIS board now comes with a side of arrogance. I will agree with algosdoc that I feel a good portion of my anesthesia training is not applicable to what I am doing now so it may not be a bad idea to create a 1 and 3 or atleast 2 and 2 program. Of course this idea will have to be bounced around for another 10 years or so before it MIGHT happen.
Sleepisgood....careful saying anything not praising PM&R around this place...apparently it makes you young, cocky and stupid...apparently being on the ISIS board now comes with a side of arrogance. I will agree with algosdoc that I feel a good portion of my anesthesia training is not applicable to what I am doing now so it may not be a bad idea to create a 1 and 3 or atleast 2 and 2 program. Of course this idea will have to be bounced around for another 10 years or so before it MIGHT happen.
Yah I've heard/seen on here. I think most readers will see the 'bias' of what's on this board for the most part (PMR, ISIS). Also automatically calling people names,etc.
People always make the claim about physical dx,etc. It's important, no question. However, in this day and age, at these meetings they tell you its about the skill set one has. Also YOUR ability to read imaging, interpret them, and do something about them.
In my area there's a Pain Mgt Group owner that was talking to me about his group's dynamics. 3 Anesthesia guys, 1 PMR. They had to let the PMR go because according to him, the guy just took too long and did more examining then he did interventions. His clinic would get backed up. RNs/MAs got pist off because they were staying late,etc. The other docs were pist because the fluro room would be backed up.
Obviously he's not saying be a needle jockey. But he was highlighting to me the importance of being 'efficient' and be 'focused'-atleast in private practice.
After med school, is pain medicine a residency or fellowship? If it's a fellowship, what residency should one go into to do a fellowship in pain medicine?
Yah I've heard/seen on here. I think most readers will see the 'bias' of what's on this board for the most part (PMR, ISIS). Also automatically calling people names,etc.
People always make the claim about physical dx,etc. It's important, no question. However, in this day and age, at these meetings they tell you its about the skill set one has. Also YOUR ability to read imaging, interpret them, and do something about them.
In my area there's a Pain Mgt Group owner that was talking to me about his group's dynamics. 3 Anesthesia guys, 1 PMR. They had to let the PMR go because according to him, the guy just took too long and did more examining then he did interventions. His clinic would get backed up. RNs/MAs got pist off because they were staying late,etc. The other docs were pist because the fluro room would be backed up.
Obviously he's not saying be a needle jockey. But he was highlighting to me the importance of being 'efficient' and be 'focused'-atleast in private practice.
Yah I've heard/seen on here. I think most readers will see the 'bias' of what's on this board for the most part (PMR, ISIS). Also automatically calling people names,etc.
People always make the claim about physical dx,etc. It's important, no question. However, in this day and age, at these meetings they tell you its about the skill set one has. Also YOUR ability to read imaging, interpret them, and do something about them.
In my area there's a Pain Mgt Group owner that was talking to me about his group's dynamics. 3 Anesthesia guys, 1 PMR. They had to let the PMR go because according to him, the guy just took too long and did more examining then he did interventions. His clinic would get backed up. RNs/MAs got pist off because they were staying late,etc. The other docs were pist because the fluro room would be backed up.
Obviously he's not saying be a needle jockey. But he was highlighting to me the importance of being 'efficient' and be 'focused'-atleast in private practice.
Putting people to sleep is not pain. While you were off saving lives in the ICU, us PMR guys were learning spinal imaging and how to examine the patient. But we have several separate threads relating to PMR vs Anes and going into pain. Part of the problem is that a few of the (rathmell) Anes folks threw PMR programs under the bus to keep their department$ happy.
There is also the difference in personalities and interests that leads one to go in to anesthesia vs PM&R, and whether to stay within those fields primary, or join the nexus of "pain." In PM&R, we do tend to take more time and do "sit down and think about it" medicine. We very rarely make life-or-death decisions. I ran a code once for the 30 seconds or so it too the code team to arrive. That's about as close as I've come to that kind of medicine since internship.
For anesthesia, treating pain outside of surgical patients is a complete paradigm shift. It's a more long-term relationship, requires a clinic and clinical eval - full H&P different than a surgical patient, treatment plans and re-evaluations in the future. Most gas guys I've talked to like having very short-term relationships with the patients and knowing that for most of the relationship, the patient will be asleep.
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After med school, is pain medicine a residency or fellowship? If it's a fellowship, what residency should one go into to do a fellowship in pain medicine?