How does SDN compare with the real distribution of pre-meds?

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Maybe I’m just massively overthinking it. But there are so many talented people on this site and I’m left feeling hopeless. There are people commenting on the school threads I’m waitlisted at and saying their stats and EC’s and it makes me feel like I’ll never get into med school....

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Maybe I’m just massively overthinking it. But there are so many talented people on this site and I’m left feeling hopeless. There are people commenting on the school threads I’m waitlisted at and saying their stats and EC’s and it makes me feel like I’ll never get into med school....
You have the wrong mentality. Instead of thinking: "there are so many superstars, I don't even have a chance" try this: "if there are so many people out there who were able to reach such astonishing stats, why can't I be one of them?"
 
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Maybe I’m just massively overthinking it. But there are so many talented people on this site and I’m left feeling hopeless. There are people commenting on the school threads I’m waitlisted at and saying their stats and EC’s and it makes me feel like I’ll never get into med school....
As I have told you in the past, don't compare yourself to others. Be the best you that you can be. If you feel inadequate compared to your own expectations of yourself, then git good. If you only feel bad about yourself when you look at other people then stop looking at other people. You do you.
 
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Also, to address the question in your title: The real pre-med distribution is the whole 472 - 528 bell curve. SDN only really attracts the people that are desperate or already have a feeling that they will be successful.
 
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I agree with what has been said, but to answer your question: I would definitely say there is a sampling bias on SDN. If you are on this forum you are more educated than the general premed. In other words, you already have a leg up! Keep doing the best you can do.
 
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So I have a real life example to share with you. I currently work as a scribe for a company that contracts out to 4 major hospitals in my area. Upon working for this company I met another scribe who is a genius. He is currently applying this cycle as well. He has a 4.0 GPA, scored a 526 on the MCAT (I made him pull up his AAMC profile and prove it and he wasn't bull****ting me), and has a very good shot at any school he wants to go to. Well I started comparing ourselves (we even have the same first name LOL) and I noticed that the one thing I have that he doesn't is the ability to interact with others with no problem. He shuts down and is introverted and doesn't articulate anything he says well, BUT hes a genius so he will get in. The point of this rant is just because there are superstars out there like this guy stat wise, EVERYONE has a vice. Just do you and keep going until you get that acceptance.
 
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So I have a real life example to share with you. I currently work as a scribe for a company that contracts out to 4 major hospitals in my area. Upon working for this company I met another scribe who is a genius. He is currently applying this cycle as well. He has a 4.0 GPA, scored a 526 on the MCAT (I made him pull up his AAMC profile and prove it and he wasn't bull****ting me), and has a very good shot at any school he wants to go to. Well I started comparing ourselves (we even have the same first name LOL) and I noticed that the one thing I have that he doesn't is the ability to interact with others with no problem. He shuts down and is introverted and doesn't articulate anything he says well, BUT hes a genius so he will get in. The point of this rant is just because there are superstars out there like this guy stat wise, EVERYONE has a vice. Just do you and keep going until you get that acceptance.
Even with those stats, 7% - 13% of them don't get in. The ADCOMs on here (I know @gonnif has mentinoed it before) say that this personality type is the very type that make up that 7 - 13 percent. It isn't all stats and ECs. Gotta be personable too.

*Caveat being high stats URM. Then it is a 100% for the most part).
 
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This site woke me up. I thought I was doing enough and was a shoe in wherever I want. The reality factor kicked in hard when I saw some of these applications. One student had almost a 4.0, entered a high impact journal, and had a 520+ MCAT. It was at that moment I realized I ain't ***. Stay humble. I credit SDN with my uptick in ECs my final x2 years though. You just need the invite for the interview. Worry about all that later.
 
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Even with those stats, 7% - 13% of them don't get in. The ADCOMs on here (I know @gonnif has mentinoed it before) say that this personality type is the very type that make up that 7 - 13 percent. It isn't all stats and ECs. Gotta be personable too.

*Caveat being high stats URM. Then it is a 100% for the most part).

I 100% agree here. If an individual is as introverted as this gentleman that I work with even high stats wont save you from a bombed interview.
 
I 100% agree here. If an individual is as introverted as this gentleman that I work with even high stats wont save you from a bombed interview.
Thankfully admissions committee members care more about the quality of Dr. they produce than their US news rating. Thankfully
 
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As someone said "nobody wants URM experience until it comes to med school application process"

I get surprised every cycle for the past 3 years at how many people suddenly experience an awakening of their inner egalitarianism (AKA social justice warriors) right around application time. Fairness/equality for all. But I'll just continue drinking my tea here.
263070
 
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I remember a few years ago we did a survey and a large number of SDNers come from prestigious private or public undergrads. So definitely not representative of the average premed, maybe one SD above the mean. Neuroticism wise SDN is 2 SDs above mean lol
 
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Near sheldon-level genius who was on his third application

I assumed there would come a point where your stats are so high that ADCOMs would be willing to budge on the social aspect. Especially if applying MD/PHD. Guess not? That's surprising, I guess I just have a hard time imaging these people.
 
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Maybe I’m just massively overthinking it. But there are so many talented people on this site and I’m left feeling hopeless. There are people commenting on the school threads I’m waitlisted at and saying their stats and EC’s and it makes me feel like I’ll never get into med school....
“Never cede to someone else the power to determine your worth. When evaluating your life, you need to use your own yardstick” the wise Doktermom
 
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I assumed there would come a point where your stats are so high that ADCOMs would be willing to budge on the social aspect. Especially if applying MD/PHD. Guess not? That's surprising, I guess I just have a hard time imaging these people.

I don't feel that they can budge regardless of stats when an applicant enters a room and the adcoms ask a simple question and the response is utter silence like the interviewee is just ignoring you. You know?
 
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I assumed there would come a point where your stats are so high that ADCOMs would be willing to budge on the social aspect. Especially if applying MD/PHD. Guess not? That's surprising, I guess I just have a hard time imaging these people.

Well, they can probably picture the doctor that can't look you in the eye and have a conversation with you. My wife and I were in the hospital during her pregnancy and had an OBGYN resident that was really really awkward... hey if you are gonna be down in my wife's business you better be able to have a conversation with us! I don't care what you got on your MCAT.
 
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Well, they can probably picture the doctor that can't look you in the eye and have a conversation with you. My wife and I were in the hospital during her pregnancy and had an OBGYN resident that was really really awkward... hey if you are gonna be down in my wife's business you better be able to have a conversation with us! I don't care what you got on your MCAT.

LOL true that!
 
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This site is filled with extremes. I saw an SDNer explain it well “SDN is filled with rockstar applicants seeing if they can get into top schools while many applicants with bad GPAs and MCATs that wonder if they have a chance”

SDN is great for advice. But you gotta be able to look past the neuroticism... SDN does NOT represent the applicant pool.
 
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I get surprised every cycle for the past 3 years at how many people suddenly experience an awakening of their inner egalitarianism (AKA social justice warriors) right around application time. Fairness/equality for all. But I'll just continue drinking my tea here.
View attachment 263070
One could join the military: adversity is likely, and service is guaranteed. If you survive, you'll get a solid boost to your application.

Tongue firmly in cheek.
 
One could join the military: adversity is likely, and service is guaranteed. If you survive, you'll get a solid boost to your application.

Tongue firmly in cheek.
FFS, I literally just told you not to do that. Why would you give terrible advice?
 
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This site is filled with extremes. I saw an SDNer explain it well “SDN is filled with rockstar applicants seeing if they can get into top schools while many applicants with bad GPAs and MCATs that wonder if they have a chance”

SDN is great for advice. But you gotta be able to look past the neuroticism... SDN does NOT represent the applicant pool.

Yah I’d say that’s pretty accurate
 
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So definitely not representative of the average premed, maybe one SD above the mean.

Sounds about right, this carries over to the med student pool too.
I assumed there would come a point where your stats are so high that ADCOMs would be willing to budge on the social aspect. Especially if applying MD/PHD. Guess not? That's surprising, I guess I just have a hard time imaging these people.
It happens for residencies too. I know for a fact one of our residencies didn't even rank a superstar applicant because they couldn't respond to basic questions.
 
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One could join the military: adversity is likely, and service is guaranteed. If you survive, you'll get a solid boost to your application.

Tongue firmly in cheek.

You jest, but the military provides tangible evidence of overcoming adversity and, to a large degree, leadership opportunities and team building skills.
 
You jest, but the military provides tangible evidence of overcoming adversity and, to a large degree, leadership opportunities and team building skills.
He isn’t even jesting though...they genuinely believe that as an effective method of bettering your application...
 
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I 100% agree here. If an individual is as introverted as this gentleman that I work with even high stats wont save you from a bombed interview.

You'd be surprised at how rarely this plays out in practice. I know it makes us all feel better to assume that high numbers come at the cost of social skills and that all these robots will get whats coming when its time to interview, but the truth is most people that have grinded out the exhaustive premed experience can at least appear sociable for 30-45 min. Even if you cant, I know several people with asperger's that got in no issues...truth is that if you've more or less checked the boxes then someone will take a chance on you.
 
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He isn’t even jesting though...they genuinely believe that as an effective method of bettering your application...
It is a fairly ill-advised though effective method - a little bit like strapping a pulsejet engine to your bicycle to go faster. It will work, yes, if you survive...but there are costs to oneself and others.
 
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It is a fairly ill-advised though effective method - a little bit like strapping a pulsejet engine to your bicycle to go faster. It will work, yes, if you survive...but there are costs to oneself and others.
You keep saying if you survive...You could go in as a lab tech, a nurse, a pharmacy tech, supply, and so on...
 
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It is a fairly ill-advised though effective method - a little bit like strapping a pulsejet engine to your bicycle to go faster. It will work, yes, if you survive...but there are costs to oneself and others.
Also, if something is I’ll advised, why even suggest it?

“What’s the quickest way off of this mountain? Over that cliff. It’s I’ll advised, but it’s an option.”
 
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You'd be surprised at how rarely this plays out in practice. I know it makes us all feel better to assume that high numbers come at the cost of social skills and that all these robots will get whats coming when its time to interview, but the truth is most people that have grinded out the exhaustive premed experience can at least appear sociable for 30-45 min. Even if you cant, I know several people with asperger's that got in no issues...truth is that if you've more or less checked the boxes then someone will take a chance on you.

I believe it but my point being if they can’t pull it together for the interview and they bomb it then the high stats more then likely will not save them. For instance I highly doubt if someone that goes in and shuts down and doesn’t answer any questions and is rude to adcoms will get in. Not saying everyone who has high stats is like this but there are a few that I personally know.
 
I made a thread a long time ago about being fired from a volunteer position and got told I should join the army. Couldn't really articulate it at the time but I instinctively felt it was just a ridiculous proposition.
 
Also, if something is ill advised, why even suggest it?

“What’s the quickest way off of this mountain? Over that cliff. It’s ill advised, but it’s an option.”
More like over a cliff on a homemade rope or something. It's probably been successfully done before. Perhaps combat arms might be the equivalent of pulsejet engine guy and jet-engine mechanic in the Air Force less risky but still a rather...intense way of improving your application. Anyone brave and foolish enough to risk his life for admission to medical school probably deserves to get in...on the other hand, someone that became an infantryman solely to pad his medical school application might be showing an unusual degree of folly.
 
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I assumed there would come a point where your stats are so high that ADCOMs would be willing to budge on the social aspect. Especially if applying MD/PHD. Guess not? That's surprising, I guess I just have a hard time imaging these people.
I was talking to an adcom member at one of my revisits, and they told me they have definitely encountered applicants who seemed absolutely perfect on paper but were so off in their interviews that they were rejected on that basis.
 
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Anyone brave and foolish enough to risk his life for admission to medical school probably deserves to get in
No they don't. Joining the military for selfish and idiotic reasons is beyond foolish. Someone that entitled deserves nothing from either the military or from medical schools.

More like over a cliff on a homemade rope or something. It's probably been successfully done before. Perhaps combat arms might be the equivalent of pulsejet engine guy and jet-engine mechanic in the Air Force less risky but still a rather...intense way of improving your application.
You have literally asked ADCOMs on here "should I join the military to improve my application?" You seem not to understand that you are that foolish person. And it is just not clicking in your head. It isn't a means of improving your application. It isn't even something you should bring up in a conversation about improving one's application. It isn't an option. You don't suggest something that you don't do. So just stop bringing it up. Stop bringing up peace corps. Stop bringing up extra curriculars. Someone is going to read it and genuinly consider it. Particularly on a post where OP was already feeling inadequate, you want to roll in here and suggest "I mean one option is to join the military to boost your app." No. Just...no. If you want to join the military to find yourself over the course of 4 years, cool. that is awesome. Good on you. You DO NOT do it with the viewpoint of "This will so boost my med school app." So literally just stop.
 
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Maybe I’m just massively overthinking it. But there are so many talented people on this site and I’m left feeling hopeless. There are people commenting on the school threads I’m waitlisted at and saying their stats and EC’s and it makes me feel like I’ll never get into med school....
It's only part of the app, but from 2015-to-2017 186,450 people took the MCAT, or ~62,000/year. ~48,000 people apply per year and ~45% of them apply with an MCAT score under 506. The AAMC MCAT/GPA grid shows you about where you fall with respect to stats compared to your fellow applicants.

I'm not sure what it all means, but I've always wondered what the relationship is between your %score on the MCAT (all test takers) compared to your %score on the MCAT (actual applicants only)? I assume it's lower but there are a lot of apps with low MCAT scores. I also wonder if it's more common to have a relatively higher MCAT/lower GPA or vice versa? Hmm...
 
I also wonder if it's more common to have a relatively higher MCAT/lower GPA or vice versa? Hmm...
It's incredibly more common to have a high GPA and a low MCAT. Low GPA/High MCAT people are actually much more rare than you would think based on SDN posts.
 
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I remember a few years ago we did a survey and a large number of SDNers come from prestigious private or public undergrads. So definitely not representative of the average premed, maybe one SD above the mean. Neuroticism wise SDN is 2 SDs above mean lol

@Lucca has it right. A couple of years ago we looked at MDApplicants (one of the other sites in the Student Doctor Network of sites) self reported data. We found that the reported LizzyM scores for people on MDApplicants was about one SD higher than the mean.
 
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It's incredibly more common to have a high GPA and a low MCAT. Low GPA/High MCAT people are actually much more rare than you would think based on SDN posts.

I would assume that’s the case since GPA inflation has skyrocketed.
 
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OK, it's a slow Friday so...the "average" accepted applicant (per MSAR) has an MCAT score of 511 and a GPA of 3.77.

The most recent GPA/MCAT grid shows someone with those stats (GPA range 3.6-3.79, MCAT range 510-513) has a 66.3% chance of being accepted.

However, the % of all applicants within that GPA range that get accepted is 47.9%, while the % of applicants within that MCAT range that get accepted is 62.4%.

There's no hiding from the MCAT.
 
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I also think non traditional students are over represented in online communities like SDN and Reddit. It makes sense since online communities can stand in for advisors and peers.
 
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I 100% agree here. If an individual is as introverted as this gentleman that I work with even high stats wont save you from a bombed interview.

The problem isn't with being introverted. It's with being socially incompetent.
 
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People are gonna flex.
Never forget that half of the people you are taking premed courses with have below a 3.0, and that half of the people you take the MCAT with will score below 500.
 
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I assumed there would come a point where your stats are so high that ADCOMs would be willing to budge on the social aspect. Especially if applying MD/PHD. Guess not? That's surprising, I guess I just have a hard time imaging these people.
We can't make them stay in a lab. If they are going to touch patients in a clinical setting they still have to match...somewhere.
We used to let the PhD side of the admissions process convince us that candidates without communication skills were worth the investment. Not any more. It's surprising how many of them just want to go into practice and apparently went MD/PhD for the tuition remission and stipend! When the students in whom we have invested so much wreck our match statistics, it's time to re-think how important those "soft" skills really are.
 
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People are gonna flex.
Never forget that half of the people you are taking premed courses with have below a 3.0, and that half of the people you take the MCAT with will score below 500.

This particularly blows my mind, just because a sub-500 mcat score on this forum is like a sin.
 
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It's surprising how many of them just want to go into practice and apparently went MD/PhD for the tuition remission and stipend!

I've heard of PhD candidates doing something similar to this instead of just getting a master's, but I didn't know that extended into medicine as well. The more you know!

I mean, it is a sin. But 50% of people still get it.

This is mind boggling to me. I can understand poor test taking, and flukes... But to score a 500, in my head, means for most you just didn't give the test the respect it deserves.
 
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I've heard of PhD candidates doing something similar to this instead of just getting a master's, but I didn't know that extended into medicine as well. The more you know!



This is mind boggling to me. I can understand poor test taking, and flukes... But to score a 500, in my head, means for most you just didn't give the test the respect it deserves.

I understand what you mean and I worked hard to get a >99th percentile score, but because it's scaled the way that it is, half of the people who take it have to score 500 or below, regardless of how much "respect" people are giving it.

Also, not really sure what you mean about PhD candidates... people end up dropping out of PhD programs with masters degrees ("mastering out"), but they go in with the intention of finishing the PhD.
 
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