How easy is it to get a psych residency as a DO?

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How about an MD psych residency?
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Be an average student and you will probably get it. Competitiveness is going up though, but due to the nature of psych it probably won't ever get super competitive.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Be an average student and you will probably get it. Competitiveness is going up though, but due to the nature of psych it probably won't ever get super competitive.
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can you elaborate on what you mean by "nature of psych?"
 
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Bump! At the moment I'm also looking deeply into Psych. General consensus is that CA and Ivy League Psych is very difficult, but the rest is chill. If you're gunning for a specific program, it may be more difficult and USMLE scores may be needed. If you just want to match ANYWHERE, it's not a problem.
 
Just by the comparison of avg. COMLEX scores
Internal Medicine > Pediatrics > Family Practice > Psychiatry > Physical Medicine and Rehab.
It might be easy but it isn't the easiest specialty :)
 
Put it this way:

At my school, which is a school that SDN now considers one of the worst DO schools, we had what many consider to be our weakest match list last year.

Of the 5-6 people we matched to psych, 4-5 were matched at major university medical centers in desirable urban areas. Not even FM can match that.
 
MADD!!! said:
Bump! At the moment I'm also looking deeply into Psych. General consensus is that CA and Ivy League Psych is very difficult, but the rest is chill. If you're gunning for a specific program, it may be more difficult and USMLE scores may be needed. If you just want to match ANYWHERE, it's not a problem.
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Haha, well I wanna return to the Bay Area for my psych residency lol
 
Geo16 said:
Just by the comparison of avg. COMLEX scores
Internal Medicine > Pediatrics > Family Practice > Psychiatry > Physical Medicine and Rehab.
It might be easy but it isn't the easiest specialty :)
Click to expand...

Its good you are doing your research, however, its more complicated than you think. PM&R for instance barely has any residencies on the AOA side, so those students who apply are bottom of the barrel. I think at this time it is best to focus on ACGME data since all those AOA residencies will become ACGME.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Osteopathic-2016.pdf

Internal medicine = 579, 87%
Pediatrics = 550, 90%
Family Practice = 525, 88%
Psychiatry = 526, 77%
PM&R = 551, 77%

On the left are the level one scores and on the right are the match rates. You are wondering why I put the match rates. This is because it will tell you the ease of matching across the spectrum of scores. A good example is where pediatrics and psychiatry. You would think matching into psychiatry is easier with a 526, but look at the matching percentile, its 77%. If you had a 480 COMLEX, your chances of matching are 70% for psychiatry (pg. 119) and 85% for pediatrics (pg. 101).

So if you were to ask me which fields that are hardest to easiest to "just match" would be, it would be a hard estimate. There are a lot of factors that go into matching such as scores, amount of applicants, and DO bias. My personal opinion would probably go like this

Internal medicine > PM&R >= Psychiatry > Pediatrics > Family Med


If you are asking in terms of DOs matching into quality level of program it would probably go from hardest to easiest:

Internal Med > Psychiatry > Pediatrics > PM&R > Family Med (well there are no tiers in family med)
 
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All this psych competitiveness on SDN is hilarious. One foot in a psych ward and the interest will vanish for 9/10 students. There's enough programs where I would suspect that, baring a breakthrough that changes the profession, it will never go higher than middle competitiveness.
 
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Staphylococcus Aureus said:
All this psych competitiveness on SDN is hilarious. One foot in a psych ward and the interest will vanish for 9/10 students. There's enough programs where I would suspect that, baring a breakthrough that changes the profession, it will never go higher than middle competitiveness.
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What makes you say that? Admittedly I've only ever been exposed to psych from the perspective of textbooks in my psych courses, but what is it about being at psych wards that makes most lose interest? Is it boring?
 
IslandStyle808 said:
Its good you are doing your research, however, its more complicated than you think. PM&R for instance barely has any residencies on the AOA side, so those students who apply are bottom of the barrel. I think at this time it is best to focus on ACGME data since all those AOA residencies will become ACGME.

Internal medicine = 579, 87%
Pediatrics = 550, 90%
Family Practice = 525, 88%
Psychiatry = 526, 77%
PM&R = 551, 77%

On the left are the level one scores and on the right are the match rates. You are wondering why I put the match rates. This is because it will tell you the ease of matching across the spectrum of scores. A good example is where pediatrics and psychiatry. You would think matching into psychiatry is easier with a 526, but look at the matching percentile, its 77%. If you had a 480 COMLEX, your chances of matching are 70% for psychiatry (pg. 119) and 85% for pediatrics (pg. 101).

So if you were to ask me which fields that are hardest to easiest to "just match" would be, it would be a hard estimate. There are a lot of factors that go into matching such as scores, amount of applicants, and DO bias. My personal opinion would probably go like this

Internal medicine > PM&R >= Psychiatry > Pediatrics > Family Med


If you are asking in terms of DOs matching into quality level of program it would probably go from hardest to easiest:

Internal Med > Psychiatry > Pediatrics > PM&R > Family Med (well there are no tiers in family med)
Click to expand...

I just made a quick assumption based on what's on here :D
http://www.nyit.edu/files/medicine/NYITCOM_ERASMatchProcess.pdf

Didn't know that. Thank you very much!
 
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IslandStyle808 said:
Sure no problem. PM&R even though it is slightly competitive it is by far the most DO friendly field. So don't be afraid to apply for the field if you have the stats.
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Haha
I'm a mere pre-med. I do have a strong interest in Family Medicine.
It used to be IM, but Family Medicine fits in with what I want to do with my life :D
 
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cantcatchme said:
What makes you say that? Admittedly I've only ever been exposed to psych from the perspective of textbooks in my psych courses, but what is it about being at psych wards that makes most lose interest? Is it boring?
Click to expand...

It certainly is an amazing field for the right person, I would just say the average medical student isn't that person. One reason is that it isn't that "medical" and I'll quote other users to explain some of the other reasons:

DetectiveAlonzo said:
Here's the thing...

THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GETTING INTO. LOL

An outpatient rotation does not teach you much.... it is the inpatient aspect where REAL psychiatry is witnessed imo.

Everybody sees the hours and pay like it's sooo great.... and then they are stuck in a room as a resident with a 300 pound heroin addict who just got out of his halfway house threatening to commit suicide needing psychiatric hospitalization.

No facility will probably want to take him in... so you are stuck with him.

I'll take a specialty where A) my patients don't berate me or call me a ****ing dingus and mothereffer for keeping them in psychiatric hold for 3 days when they thought they would be released at 10:00 AM after they signed a voluntary hold form, B) I do not need security guards to conduct any interview on a patient who is off of his/her rocker, C) I do not get spit on, thrown urine or feces at, or threatened that my whole family will be killed if I do not do something for them, D) I need to remove any pens, necklaces, rings, and/or "sharp" items (cause my reading glasses may be used as a damn shank) before I go in with an actual squad of nurses and security to restrain a "combative" patient....

oh... and can't forget E) when they try to attack you.

I have personally seen a poor psych nurse get absolutely manhandled and tossed like an absolute ragdoll by an ex college football player...

She apparently didn't "approach" him the right way as the dude was trying to get his meds from the counter. All she asked was for him to politely step away from the window where the residents and doctors were.

No offense to my good psychiatrists out there but yeeaaaa....

**** get's deep.
Click to expand...
 
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Staphylococcus Aureus said:
It certainly is an amazing field for the right person, I would just say the average medical student isn't that person. One reason is that it isn't that "medical" and I'll quote other users to explain some of the other reasons:
Click to expand...

Different strokes for different folks.

Me... personally?

I find the same stuff I highlighted in my post pretty damn exciting. I've known and grown up with some savage folks.

I'm leaving all doors open. But the thing is... I know what I will be getting myself into should I decide to go into psych.
 
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IslandStyle808 said:
Its good you are doing your research, however, its more complicated than you think. PM&R for instance barely has any residencies on the AOA side, so those students who apply are bottom of the barrel. I think at this time it is best to focus on ACGME data since all those AOA residencies will become ACGME.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Osteopathic-2016.pdf

Internal medicine = 579, 87%
Pediatrics = 550, 90%
Family Practice = 525, 88%
Psychiatry = 526, 77%
PM&R = 551, 77%

On the left are the level one scores and on the right are the match rates. You are wondering why I put the match rates. This is because it will tell you the ease of matching across the spectrum of scores. A good example is where pediatrics and psychiatry. You would think matching into psychiatry is easier with a 526, but look at the matching percentile, its 77%. If you had a 480 COMLEX, your chances of matching are 70% for psychiatry (pg. 119) and 85% for pediatrics (pg. 101).

So if you were to ask me which fields that are hardest to easiest to "just match" would be, it would be a hard estimate. There are a lot of factors that go into matching such as scores, amount of applicants, and DO bias. My personal opinion would probably go like this

Internal medicine > PM&R >= Psychiatry > Pediatrics > Family Med


If you are asking in terms of DOs matching into quality level of program it would probably go from hardest to easiest:

Internal Med > Psychiatry > Pediatrics > PM&R > Family Med (well there are no tiers in family med)
Click to expand...
What's internal medicine ? Is it like trauma medicine?
 
What's the difference between FM and I'M?
 
5words said:
So IM* is geared towards adult while FM is broader... just a question which specs is the Navy/ Military/ Army more interested in?
Click to expand...
No, Internal Medicine, especially with those doctors who train in a fellowship, focuses on inpatient medical issues that are usually specific. Family Medicine is more broad in its practice and is meant to focus on the long term care of patients in an outpatient setting. Now of course there is crossing-over but thats another issue.

I don't know enough about military medicine, but I'd imagine they would be willing to take just about any specialty, so that really shouldn't matter.

Edit: was corrected
 
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Nikj said:
No, Internal Medicine, especially with those doctors who train in a fellowship, focuses on inpatient medical issues that are usually specific. Family Medicine is more broad in its practice and is meant to focus on the long term care of patients in an outpatient setting. Now of course there is crossing-over but thats another issue.

I don't know enough about military medicine, but I'd imagine they would be willing to take just about any specialty, so that really shouldn't matter.

Edit: Internal medicine definitely focuses more on adults, but there also internal medicine physicians who do fellowships in Peds and focus on ped issues.
Click to expand...
Yeah they are mentioned in the article .. Med'peds I believe...

And thanks for your input .. last question are EM residencies competitive for DOS?
 
5words said:
Yeah they are mentioned in the article .. Med'peds I believe...

And thanks for your input .. last question are EM residencies competitive for DOS?
Click to expand...
EM as a specialty in general is competitive and becoming more so for both MD and DO. That being said, a lot of DOs go into EM and actually match well. Might change with the merger though, so watch out.
 
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Nikj said:
EM as a specialty in general is competitive and becoming more so for both MD and DO. That being said, a lot of DOs go into EM and actually match well. Might change with the merger though, so watch out.
Click to expand...
One last thing.. (sorry) I keep on hearing about the merger.. I have no idea what is it.. do you any link I should read?
 
5words said:
One last thing.. (sorry) I keep on hearing about the merger.. I have no idea what is it.. do you any link I should read?
Click to expand...
http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/single-gme-accreditation-system/Pages/default.aspx

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/all-things-acgme-aoa-merger.1235700/

All the other posts are mostly speculation, but reading some of the effects DO students are feeling right now might be helpful to get a better idea of what things are looking like.
 
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IslandStyle808 said:
Its good you are doing your research, however, its more complicated than you think. PM&R for instance barely has any residencies on the AOA side, so those students who apply are bottom of the barrel. I think at this time it is best to focus on ACGME data since all those AOA residencies will become ACGME.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Osteopathic-2016.pdf

Internal medicine = 579, 87%
Pediatrics = 550, 90%
Family Practice = 525, 88%
Psychiatry = 526, 77%
PM&R = 551, 77%

On the left are the level one scores and on the right are the match rates. You are wondering why I put the match rates. This is because it will tell you the ease of matching across the spectrum of scores. A good example is where pediatrics and psychiatry. You would think matching into psychiatry is easier with a 526, but look at the matching percentile, its 77%. If you had a 480 COMLEX, your chances of matching are 70% for psychiatry (pg. 119) and 85% for pediatrics (pg. 101).

So if you were to ask me which fields that are hardest to easiest to "just match" would be, it would be a hard estimate. There are a lot of factors that go into matching such as scores, amount of applicants, and DO bias. My personal opinion would probably go like this

Internal medicine > PM&R >= Psychiatry > Pediatrics > Family Med


If you are asking in terms of DOs matching into quality level of program it would probably go from hardest to easiest:

Internal Med > Psychiatry > Pediatrics > PM&R > Family Med (well there are no tiers in family med)
Click to expand...

I don't think saying matching Peds is necessarily easier than matching into Psych. One rationale I have for this is that for applicants I'm guessing it's easier to convey true interest in Peds than in Psych. From what I keep hearing, many people who apply for Psych have little to no interest, and for that reason many PD's care about a genuine interest in Psych as much as, if not more than, than step 1 scores.
 
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MADD!!! said:
I don't think saying matching Peds is necessarily easier than matching into Psych. One rationale I have for this is that for applicants I'm guessing it's easier to convey true interest in Peds than in Psych. From what I keep hearing, many people who apply for Psych have little to no interest, and for that reason many PD's care about a genuine interest in Psych as much as, if not more than, than step 1 scores.
Click to expand...

This is true for any field, if you don't have a genuine interest you won't match. Some fields care more about fit than stats, this is also true. As I mentioned before its more of an opinion than a fact, I'm coming from a more statistical standpoint.
 
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Easy. One of my classmates failed comlex level 1, but still matched at a university program. I don't think "top" programs regularly take DOs, but I doubt it matters that much in psychiatry.
 
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Nikj said:
No, Internal Medicine, especially with those doctors who train in a fellowship, focuses on inpatient medical issues that are usually specific. Family Medicine is more broad in its practice and is meant to focus on the long term care of patients in an outpatient setting. Now of course there is crossing-over but thats another issue.

I don't know enough about military medicine, but I'd imagine they would be willing to take just about any specialty, so that really shouldn't matter.

Edit: Internal medicine definitely focuses more on adults, but there also internal medicine physicians who do fellowships in Peds and focus on ped issues.
Click to expand...

IM is medicine for adults. You cannot do a pediatric fellowship without completing a pediatric residency. There are internists who do, but they are double boarded in meds-peds, which is a combined residency. Alternatively, some internists complete congenital heart fellowships after completing an adult cards fellowship, which would allow you to focus on adults with congenital heart disease. There are some other fellowships where you may be taking care of young adults as well.


General internists in private practice function much like family practitioners, without the kids and OB.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
IM is medicine for adults. You cannot do a pediatric fellowship without completing a pediatric residency. There are internists who do, but they are double boarded in meds-peds, which is a combined residency. Alternatively, some internists complete congenital heart fellowships after completing an adult cards fellowship, which would allow you to focus on adults with congenital heart disease. There are some other fellowships where you may be taking care of young adults as well.


General internists in private practice function much like family practitioners, without the kids and OB.
Click to expand...
Ah ok apologies
 
Would anybody like some fava beans and chianti?
 
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I feel like I keep reading that every field is getting more competitive (with the exception of PC). Anyone else?


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ERinspired said:
I feel like I keep reading that every field is getting more competitive (with the exception of PC). Anyone else?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

Naa, it's the opposite-- Radiology and Anesthesiology keep getting less and less competitive each year. Psych is getting "more" competitive, but still plenty of spots to go around. If anything, it seems like Internal Medicine is getting more and more competitive each year for the good places, while surgery is declining or staying about constant. The competitive specialties like Derm/ENT/Ortho/Plastics have been as competitive as ever and can't get any more competitive than it is now.
 
ERinspired said:
I feel like I keep reading that every field is getting more competitive (with the exception of PC). Anyone else?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

But on another note, with a rise in DO programs in place right now, by the time we match the competition will go up because of more applicants.
 
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I don't doubt that Joe Schmoe will be able to get a Psych residency in five years. That may change in ten years time. Kids these days want dat lifestyle.
 
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MADD!!! said:
But on another note, with a rise in DO programs in place right now, by the time we match the competition will go up because of more applicants.
Click to expand...

With all the rise in competition for DO and MD students alike, it really goes to show how ridiculously important it is to do well on the board exam after year two, whether it's the USMLE or COMLEX.

Doesn't it therefore seem insane to only give students like 4 weeks to prepare for the exam? I mean, we all spent at least twice that long preparing for the MCAT, which is comparatively supposed to be the equivalent of a Monday morning quiz
 
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Donald J. Trump said:
I don't doubt that Joe Schmoe will be able to get a Psych residency in five years. That may change in ten years time. Kids these days want dat lifestyle.
Click to expand...

Yea, that's why surgery seems to be declining.... or not getting more competitive even though more applicants are coming into play.
 
cantcatchme said:
With all the rise in competition for DO and MD students alike, it really goes to show how ridiculously important it is to do well on the board exam after year two, whether it's the USMLE or COMLEX.

Doesn't it therefore seem insane to only give students like 4 weeks to prepare for the exam? I mean, we all spent at least twice that long preparing for the MCAT, which is comparatively supposed to be the equivalent of a Monday morning quiz
Click to expand...

From the years I have spent on here, you'd be surprised to see that 4 week is enough time for a lot of people. There was one member here that got a 260 using only 2 weeks of dedicated study time!

However, you have to remember that board studying is really done from day one. You get a strong foundation from year 1, this sets you up for year 2. At the same time you are studying for classes year 2, you are studying for boards. Then all of this comes together during your dedicated study time. However, you will not need more than 6 weeks, because after some point you are going to "peak." Meaning that once you go beyond this point, you are forgetting as much as you are learning. Meaning more studying is pointless. Studying for the boards is a different game from studying form the MCAT.
 
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IslandStyle808 said:
From the years I have spent on here, you'd be surprised to see that 4 week is enough time for a lot of people. There was one member here that got a 260 using only 2 weeks of dedicated study time!

However, you have to remember that board studying is really done from day one. You get a strong foundation from year 1, this sets you up for year 2. At the same time you are studying for classes year 2, you are studying for boards. Then all of this comes together during your dedicated study time. However, you will not need more than 6 weeks, because after some point you are going to "peak." Meaning that once you go beyond this point, you are forgetting as much as you are learning. Meaning more studying is pointless. Studying for the boards is a different game from studying form the MCAT.
Click to expand...

Yea, I think 5 to 6 weeks is the sweet spot.
 
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IslandStyle808 said:
From the years I have spent on here, you'd be surprised to see that 4 week is enough time for a lot of people. There was one member here that got a 260 using only 2 weeks of dedicated study time!

However, you have to remember that board studying is really done from day one. You get a strong foundation from year 1, this sets you up for year 2. At the same time you are studying for classes year 2, you are studying for boards. Then all of this comes together during your dedicated study time. However, you will not need more than 6 weeks, because after some point you are going to "peak." Meaning that once you go beyond this point, you are forgetting as much as you are learning. Meaning more studying is pointless. Studying for the boards is a different game from studying form the MCAT.
Click to expand...

This is good to know. Making the best of year 1 at the moment.
 
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MADD!!! said:
Bump! At the moment I'm also looking deeply into Psych. General consensus is that CA and Ivy League Psych is very difficult, but the rest is chill. If you're gunning for a specific program, it may be more difficult and USMLE scores may be needed. If you just want to match ANYWHERE, it's not a problem.
Click to expand...
It depends what program you're talking about. Kaweah, UCR, UCSF-Fresno, Loma Linda and Arrowhead should be very attainable. I've heard of some of the satellite Ivy should be attainable too.
 
IslandStyle808 said:
From the years I have spent on here, you'd be surprised to see that 4 week is enough time for a lot of people. There was one member here that got a 260 using only 2 weeks of dedicated study time!

However, you have to remember that board studying is really done from day one. You get a strong foundation from year 1, this sets you up for year 2. At the same time you are studying for classes year 2, you are studying for boards. Then all of this comes together during your dedicated study time. However, you will not need more than 6 weeks, because after some point you are going to "peak." Meaning that once you go beyond this point, you are forgetting as much as you are learning. Meaning more studying is pointless. Studying for the boards is a different game from studying form the MCAT.
Click to expand...
You're talking about very specific cases here that don't apply to the majority of people. 2 weeks is not enough for most students. For example, 30% of my class didn't take USMLE because they were unprepared. Of those that took it, I've heard of a few people score 198-205 range. 6 weeks should be enough for someone that has prepared well and comes from a school that really teaches well for boards, but I think 10 weeks is the most ideal time frame so that almost everyone in the class can do well and has some leeway at the beginning of dedicated to make more errors.
 
AlbinoHawk DO said:
You're talking about very specific cases here that don't apply to the majority of people. 2 weeks is not enough for most students. For example, 30% of my class didn't take USMLE because they were unprepared. Of those that took it, I've heard of a few people score 198-205 range. 6 weeks should be enough for someone that has prepared well and comes from a school that really teaches well for boards, but I think 10 weeks is the most ideal time frame so that almost everyone in the class can do well and has some leeway at the beginning of dedicated to make more errors.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much the point of my post. If you are well prepared, you won't need a ton of time to score decently. The people you are referring to are the ones who inadequately prepare. That extra time helps them far more so than the well prepared person, but they still won't do as well as the person who prepared adequately (i.e. doing well in MS-1 and MS-2 and proper board studying). That 10 week time frame won't help the struggle student beat out the well prepared student in most scenarios (the vast majority will pass their peaking point as well). However, I believe it could help them pass at the very least.
 
Staphylococcus Aureus said:
It certainly is an amazing field for the right person, I would just say the average medical student isn't that person. One reason is that it isn't that "medical" and I'll quote other users to explain some of the other reasons:
Click to expand...

If someone hasn't worked in a mental institution before and suddenly their life IS in danger, yea it can change minds pretty darn fast :p Psych really is for those that really really really love the field while knowing the dangers/risks/downside.
 
AlbinoHawk DO said:
It depends what program you're talking about. Kaweah, UCR, UCSF-Fresno, Loma Linda and Arrowhead should be very attainable. I've heard of some of the satellite Ivy should be attainable too.
Click to expand...

I wonder.... are those residencies attainable for WesternU grads specifically, or all DO applicants? In other words, how much regional bias do you think there is?
 
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