How easy is it to work 4 days as a dentist?

[Doctorfish]

Is it easy to find job opportunities like this as an associate whether it’s a private practice or DSO? I want to have time on the weekends to pursue other ventures

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[Ivy.ch]

Is it easy to find job opportunities like this as an associate whether it’s a private practice or DSO? I want to have time on the weekends to pursue other ventures

Most new grads struggle to find full time work around here. Part time work sounds good until you consider the lower salary and no benefits. Most can’t afford to work part time with their debt payments every month, so they end up hopping around to different offices throughout the month.

 

[allDAT]

Most private offices will ask for Friday because the owner no longer wants to work Fridays.

It’s easy to find jobs that are less than 5 days a week in private practice because almost all of the are only looking for a PT associate.

 

[Screwtape]

Very geographic dependent. In my area pretty much every “full time” associate position is 4 days a week. I’ve never worked 5 days a week in private practice. Probably totally different in some other areas.

 

[yappy]

In my experience jobs are very flexible and you can work as little or as much as you want. Many newer graduates, myself included, work 5 days to get some financial traction in life. Beyond debt repayment, you can earn a very healthy income on 4 days per week. I think the problem with working less than full time is that student loans are bonkers for many newer graduates.... but there are many options to work 4 days if that’s what you choose.

 

[charlestweed]

You shouldn't have any problem finding a 4day/wk job. Dentists have more flexible work hours than the MD's. You don't have to accept the job that requires you to work 5 days/wk. There are plenty of associate dentist jobs out there that hire you for fewer days a week. The problem is you may not make enough money working only 4 days/week if you owe a a lot in student loans and don't have wealthy parents, who help pay for dental school. Without money, you can't do anything fun on your 3-day weekends. As you already know, everything requires money.

I think it's better to work 5-6 days/week (especially when you are young and healthy). Make (and save) as much money as possible. You can easily take a 1-2 wk long vacation once or twice a year. You just need to notify your boss a few months in advance so he/she can find a temp dentist to cover for you. This is better than having a 3-day weekend every week (sitting around doing nothing) and being a broke dentist (because you only work 4 days/wk and have student loans to pay back).

I work a lot but I also take a lot of vacations with my kids....at least twice a year.....usually during the Spring break, 4th of July week, and Xmas break. When you have kids, you can't just take vacation anytime you want to. They have schools, AP, ACT and SAT exams.

 

[HMI]

Is it easy to find job opportunities like this as an associate whether it’s a private practice or DSO? I want to have time on the weekends to pursue other ventures

Shouldn't be hard, I have a practice and barley have enough patient to keep it open 4 days (that's why I'm responding while sitting in my office, LOL), I know some of the corporations have the same issue and are only open 4 days unless they have pedo, perio, exo, endo days.

 

[charlestweed]

Shouldn't be hard, I have a practice and barley have enough patient to keep it open 4 days (that's why I'm responding while sitting in my office, LOL), I know some of the corporations have the same issue and are only open 4 days unless they have pedo, perio, exo, endo days.

I wish I have the problem of having too many patients to treat and having too much work to do. I only have enough patients to keep my practice open 11 days/month. To add more patients and to create more work for me to do, I have to get a P/T job at corp office.

 

[HMI]

I wish I have the problem of having too many patients to treat and having too much work to do. I only have enough patients to keep my practice open 11 days/month. To add more patients and to create more work for me to do, I have to get a P/T job at corp office.

Where I am (OC California) that's really hard (even if you take Dentical), I used to own two practices one in LA county and another in OC and between both I was busy six days, now I'm down to one and not that busy, I've been thinking to open another office but then that has it's own set of problems (staffing, finding good associate and....). for now I'm taking it easy, at least my house and office are paid off ( I opened a brand new digital office for around $90K), so I can manage for now but I hate not to be more productive; I've been out of school for 7 years only, too soon to slow down.

 

[oralcare123]

Don't be afraid to say what you want - life is too short to be miserable. If you want to work only 4 days, so be it. 4 days are still considered to be full time and you will get benefits

 

[PerioDont]

Where I am (OC California) that's really hard (even if you take Dentical), I used to own two practices one in LA county and another in OC and between both I was busy six days, now I'm down to one and not that busy, I've been thinking to open another office but then that has it's own set of problems (staffing, finding good associate and....). for now I'm taking it easy, at least my house and office are paid off ( I opened a brand new digital office for around $90K), so I can manage for now but I hate not to be more productive; I've been out of school for 7 years only, too soon to slow down.

That's fantastic! how did you get the costs so low? how many ops is your practice?

assuming you didn't fall for the latest and greatest 'all-in-one' packages from Henry Schein, A-dec etc

 

[HMI]

That's fantastic! how did you get the costs so low? how many ops is your practice?

assuming you didn't fall for the latest and greatest 'all-in-one' packages from Henry Schein, A-dec etc

I found an old dental office space with 3 ops, spent $20K on renovating flooring and cabinets and fixing the plumbing, another $27K on 3 dental chairs and the rest on computers and three cheap 55" TVs (mounted in front of patient chairs so they can see their Xrays and stuff), one portable X-ray and one sensor, vacuum, compressor, autoclave, dental supplies and tools, sales taxes, and office supplies (chairs and desks..). currently I work with one OM and one P/T RDA and keep my overhead as low as I can.

 

[yappy]

I found an old dental office space with 3 ops, spent $20K on renovating flooring and cabinets and fixing the plumbing, another $27K on 3 dental chairs and the rest on computers and three cheap 55" TVs (mounted in front of patient chairs so they can see their Xrays and stuff), one portable X-ray and one sensor, vacuum, compressor, autoclave, dental supplies and tools, sales taxes, and office supplies (chairs and desks..). currently I work with one OM and one P/T RDA and keep my overhead as low as I can.

This is such a better plan than spending a ton of money to be a DSO "owner" or working as an associate indefinitely.

 

[Cold Front]

I found an old dental office space with 3 ops, spent $20K on renovating flooring and cabinets and fixing the plumbing, another $27K on 3 dental chairs and the rest on computers and three cheap 55" TVs (mounted in front of patient chairs so they can see their Xrays and stuff), one portable X-ray and one sensor, vacuum, compressor, autoclave, dental supplies and tools, sales taxes, and office supplies (chairs and desks..). currently I work with one OM and one P/T RDA and keep my overhead as low as I can.

This is a smart and cheap way to open a dental office.

However, there are benefits in spending little more to make the office a better quality and more efficient. For instance; fixed xray vs portable xray, 1 vs 2 sensors (just in case one has issues). Also, there is the IRS section 179 depreciation, which allows you upto $500k in purchases against your first few years of income, so you can recoup that money the smart way if you had taken out a loan for those additional items for the office. Specially if your practice grows very quickly, you don’t want your patients noticing potential bottlenecks.

Every situation is different, congrats to you!

 

[Rambunctious]

I found an old dental office space with 3 ops, spent $20K on renovating flooring and cabinets and fixing the plumbing, another $27K on 3 dental chairs and the rest on computers and three cheap 55" TVs (mounted in front of patient chairs so they can see their Xrays and stuff), one portable X-ray and one sensor, vacuum, compressor, autoclave, dental supplies and tools, sales taxes, and office supplies (chairs and desks..). currently I work with one OM and one P/T RDA and keep my overhead as low as I can.

Is the rent decent for 3 ops?

 

[setdoc7]

It's even better to work 3 days a week. LOL

 

[Mauricio45]

It's even better to work 3 days a week. LOL

Yep. As I get older, money doesn't really matter anymore.

 

[CharlieAF]

This is largely location dependent, imho.

You have more chance of of finding this kind of set up in a rural area vs a saturated urban area.

I’m in a rural area, and my office is open four days a week. (It’s in the process of being sold because I’m going back to school to specialize in peds. Yes, I’m crazy, I know. I’ve accepted this.)

Anyway, I’ll talk numbers, since people generally don’t feel comfortable doing so, but I find it useful.

I graduated in 2004 and took a 4 day a week associate job in a rural area. I made probably just over 100k that first year. (Roughly 141k in today’s money.) At the time of graduation I had 120k in student debt. Dental school was much cheaper back then, lol.

After three years, I bought my current practice and the debt service on the practice and building was roughly 13k a month. It’s paid off now.

Currently we are still only open 4 days a week. We collect roughly 1M a year, with one dentist and 10 hyg days per week. We stopped accepting new patients two months ago, due to our schedule becoming booked out too far.

Yes, I live 2 hours from a major airport. 1.5 hours from a Trader Joe’s. 2.5 hrs from decent Mediterranean food.

But the cost of living is cheap AF, and I gross over 250k a year if you include the vehicle and health insurance write-offs.

Currently, the buyer is looking for a full-time associate to bring on board as well. And knowing what I know about the numbers and the new patient waiting list, that associate will make very decent money. However, this is a set up you don’t often see in more saturated markets.

Everything has trade-offs. You can find what you’re looking for, but you may need to be flexible on location.

 

[Cold Front]

After three years, I bought my current practice and the debt service on the practice and building was roughly 13k a month. It’s paid off now.

Currently we are still only open 4 days a week. We collect roughly 1M a year, with one dentist and 10 hyg days per week. We stopped accepting new patients two months ago, due to our schedule becoming booked out too far.

It sounds like you have a great gig over there.

I could be wrong, but you are probably in your mid 40’s now and walking away from a practice that produces a great income, and a building with 0 debt to go back to school and specialize in Pedo. Did you get bored working as a solo dentist in a rural area? Was your heart always in Pedo and you kept delaying to specialize because of the big debt that came with buying your first practice and building? Do you plan to own a Pedo office in the future after you finish your residency?

I’m few years younger and I too paid off practices and buildings debt, which was roughly about $33k a month, and I would REALLY hate myself if I walked away from my castle and started over again in a different direction. Although I live and work in a very urban area, I suppose I have other reasons not to start over again - compared to living and working in a rural area.

 

[CharlieAF]

It sounds like you have a great gig over there.

I could be wrong, but you are probably in your mid 40’s now and walking away from a practice that produces a great income, and a building with 0 debt to go back to school and specialize in Pedo. Did you get bored working as a solo dentist in a rural area? Was your heart always in Pedo and you kept delaying to specialize because of the big debt that came with buying your first practice and building? Do you plan to own a Pedo office in the future after you finish your residency?

I’m few years younger and I too paid off practices and buildings debt, which was roughly about $33k a month, and I would REALLY hate myself if I walked away from my castle and started over again in a different direction. Although I live and work in a very urban area, I suppose I have other reasons not to start over again - compared to living and working in a rural area.

You are not wrong, lol. I’m 43, and yes, walking away from zero debt (other than the mortgage on our house).

There are a few reasons. I’m bored, intellectually. And when I was figuring out what I wanted to do about that, diving into the world of SHCN appealed to me.

Also, I’ve grown to be frustrated by the lack of care for peds patients in rural areas. If I refer a patient out, the closest pedodontist is an hour away and only takes kids up to age 3. Plus the wait to be seen is 3 months. Older and SHCN patients who require hospital care get sent hours away. And in reality, that often means they don’t go at all. Parents won’t take them. This all comes down to idea that there’s a very inefficient distribution of care. General dentists should be seeing more healthy kids. Pediatric dentists should be handing fewer “easy” kids, so that they can focus on the cases that really aren’t the scope of most general dentists. So I want to tackle this problem from both ends. On the one side, I can treat the medically complex and indigent patients in community health and university settings. On the other side, I can teach dental students and new graduates how to work with kids more in their own offices.

I’m tired of managing a practice. It’s not difficult, per se, but I’m bored with it. And really, now is the perfect time to make a change. We have no debt. We have made significant inroads into saving for retirement and our children’s college funds. We have no student loans. Our house is worth 70k more than when we bought it, so it’s a good time to sell that. I’m still young(ish) enough that I can do this, and work another 20 years if I want to.

In the end, yes, I would make more money staying where I am now. And I’d be content. But I wouldn’t be fulfilled.

 

[Cold Front]

You are not wrong, lol. I’m 43, and yes, walking away from zero debt (other than the mortgage on our house).

There are a few reasons. I’m bored, intellectually. And when I was figuring out what I wanted to do about that, diving into the world of SHCN appealed to me.

Also, I’ve grown to be frustrated by the lack of care for peds patients in rural areas. If I refer a patient out, the closest pedodontist is an hour away and only takes kids up to age 3. Plus the wait to be seen is 3 months. Older and SHCN patients who require hospital care get sent hours away. And in reality, that often means they don’t go at all. Parents won’t take them. This all comes down to idea that there’s a very inefficient distribution of care. General dentists should be seeing more healthy kids. Pediatric dentists should be handing fewer “easy” kids, so that they can focus on the cases that really aren’t the scope of most general dentists. So I want to tackle this problem from both ends. On the one side, I can treat the medically complex and indigent patients in community health and university settings. On the other side, I can teach dental students and new graduates how to work with kids more in their own offices.

I’m tired of managing a practice. It’s not difficult, per se, but I’m bored with it. And really, now is the perfect time to make a change. We have no debt. We have made significant inroads into saving for retirement and our children’s college funds. We have no student loans. Our house is worth 70k more than when we bought it, so it’s a good time to sell that. I’m still young(ish) enough that I can do this, and work another 20 years if I want to.

In the end, yes, I would make more money staying where I am now. And I’d be content. But I wouldn’t be fulfilled.

We’re actually the same age, except you have more energy for a do over than me. lol

I’m a general dentist, and I own practices with 2/3 of all patients as pediatric patients. There is a big children’s hospital in my city with a dental clinic and they are scheduling 8 months out - mostly for Medicaid patients. Haven’y you heard? America doesn’t care about it’s poor when it comes to healthcare, we’re “show me the money society!” at a level not seen in other nations due to inequality. I live in a very urban city (mid size by most measures, but still a fast growing and the nerve center of the state economically) and there are plenty of pediatric dentists here. But nope, they don’t want to treat the patients who need their services the most because of lower insurance reimbursement fees and affordability issues. These same pediatric dentists go and do missions every now then in Guatemala, Mexico, Honduras and Haiti to treat kids. Yet, they are happy to turn away kids from their community back in the US because they don’t accept their insurance. But that’s whole another topic... probably on a different thread.

I was just wondering about you going back to school to become a pediatric dentist is obviously a great goal to help bring services back to a community and improve dental access for kids, but I think you can do the vast majority of pediatric services as a general dentist too. I personally think some specialties (historically speaking) were created to fend off competition between dentists. We have a shortage of dentists in many parts of the country, yet dentistry is still pushing more specialties instead of focusing on the bigger and more immediate issues in public health. I grew up in England, and my braces were done by a general dentist who was trained to do Ortho cases during dental school. I pretty much had my prophy + restorative cases + ortho by the same dentist. Meanwhile, we add extra barriers on this side of the pond; you see 3-4 dentists to do different services - in the name of bureaucracy. I do 90% of my endo cases, see almost all my pedo cases, etc. It’s good for the patients and the public IMO.

 

[2TH MVR]

I’m going back to school to specialize in peds.

Good for you man. Glad everything worked out for you. The kids in the community where you decide to practice pedo will be blessed and lucky to have you.

 

[cmjacks5]

You are not wrong, lol. I’m 43, and yes, walking away from zero debt (other than the mortgage on our house).

There are a few reasons. I’m bored, intellectually. And when I was figuring out what I wanted to do about that, diving into the world of SHCN appealed to me.

Also, I’ve grown to be frustrated by the lack of care for peds patients in rural areas. If I refer a patient out, the closest pedodontist is an hour away and only takes kids up to age 3. Plus the wait to be seen is 3 months. Older and SHCN patients who require hospital care get sent hours away. And in reality, that often means they don’t go at all. Parents won’t take them. This all comes down to idea that there’s a very inefficient distribution of care. General dentists should be seeing more healthy kids. Pediatric dentists should be handing fewer “easy” kids, so that they can focus on the cases that really aren’t the scope of most general dentists. So I want to tackle this problem from both ends. On the one side, I can treat the medically complex and indigent patients in community health and university settings. On the other side, I can teach dental students and new graduates how to work with kids more in their own offices.

I’m tired of managing a practice. It’s not difficult, per se, but I’m bored with it. And really, now is the perfect time to make a change. We have no debt. We have made significant inroads into saving for retirement and our children’s college funds. We have no student loans. Our house is worth 70k more than when we bought it, so it’s a good time to sell that. I’m still young(ish) enough that I can do this, and work another 20 years if I want to.

In the end, yes, I would make more money staying where I am now. And I’d be content. But I wouldn’t be fulfilled.

This is inspiring. Congrats to you!