How essential is research and extracurriculars for matching into Psych?

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phagocytosis41

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Hey all, DO MS4 Here. Wondering how important research and ECs are for an Psych program, not wanting to go at a big academic place, just any solid place. I probably will have 3-4 abstracts/publications, maybe more.. Have a bunch of ECs, but just wondering in the grand scheme how important are these. K thanks.

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important in the sense that you'd better not be the president of the dermatology interest group and also hopefully show that you have some interests and can get along with others
 
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You're fine. Focus on other things now. Its not that emphasized.
 
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I wanted to make a thread about the new NRMP "Charting the Outcomes" data but since we're already talking about ECs/research I'll just post it here...

If research/ECs aren't emphasized, how does the average matched psychiatry applicant have 5.6 publications? It's not that much compared to other specialties—but it still threw me, since I'm currently spending my summer as a rising MS2 doing an elective clinical experience instead of research. At my institution (US MD), this summer is the only dedicated opportunity for research. I declined to participate after receiving the common wisdom that publications aren't a necessity to match into psychiatry, and now I'm wondering if I've shot myself in the foot...

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I wanted to make a thread about the new NRMP "Charting the Outcomes" data but since we're already talking about ECs/research I'll just post it here...

If research/ECs aren't emphasized, how does the average matched psychiatry applicant have 5.6 publications? It's not that much compared to other specialties—but it still threw me, since I'm currently spending my summer as a rising MS2 doing an elective clinical experience instead of research. At my institution (US MD), this summer is the only dedicated opportunity for research. I declined to participate after receiving the common wisdom that publications aren't a necessity to match into psychiatry, and now I'm wondering if I've shot myself in the foot...

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Not sure if you read the whole thread over on the MD student forum, but there was a long discussion about how med students inflate their pub numbers: triple counting abstract-poster-presentation, presenting essentially the same thing everywhere, you name it. Not a lot of people have, say, 5.6 first author manuscripts, and even people who do don't always publish in the best of journals. Even though the M1 summer is usually the only dedicated time to do research, it's not hard to reach out and see if there are any clinical projects you can get in on during the year.

As far as research content, psych isn't like a lot of fields where you MUST do research in psych, though it is a very nice way of showing interest. So perhaps there's not a lot of psych research going on at your school but somehow the FM department is super involved and do a lot of addiction or biopsychoscial research - you could try that, as it's relevant to the practice of psychiatry. Then if anyone asks, you say that you're interested in that in psych and this was the way you could get involved in that niche (and hopefully that'll be true).
 
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Not very necessary unless you're gunning for a research track position. Or if you're trying to sell yourself as a future academic / content area expert to a place that is trying to recruit residents who are motivated in that way.
 
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I wanted to make a thread about the new NRMP "Charting the Outcomes" data but since we're already talking about ECs/research I'll just post it here...

If research/ECs aren't emphasized, how does the average matched psychiatry applicant have 5.6 publications? It's not that much compared to other specialties—but it still threw me, since I'm currently spending my summer as a rising MS2 doing an elective clinical experience instead of research. At my institution (US MD), this summer is the only dedicated opportunity for research. I declined to participate after receiving the common wisdom that publications aren't a necessity to match into psychiatry, and now I'm wondering if I've shot myself in the foot...

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Focus on Step 1 First lol.. Thats Step #1 literally. Then worry about other stuff. You have all of MS3 and part of MS4 to do research.
 
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I wanted to make a thread about the new NRMP "Charting the Outcomes" data but since we're already talking about ECs/research I'll just post it here...

If research/ECs aren't emphasized, how does the average matched psychiatry applicant have 5.6 publications? It's not that much compared to other specialties—but it still threw me, since I'm currently spending my summer as a rising MS2 doing an elective clinical experience instead of research. At my institution (US MD), this summer is the only dedicated opportunity for research. I declined to participate after receiving the common wisdom that publications aren't a necessity to match into psychiatry, and now I'm wondering if I've shot myself in the foot...

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No way is that true for Derm, Neuro surgery, ortho, Plastic, and Rad-Onc. There has to be some inflation and shady stuff going on to have 19+ abstracts/presentations/publications. I'm pretty sure statistical analyses would show there are discrepancies. But again, one doesn't really have to do much to get listed as an author, as long as the other people are nice and willing to give you credit.... Or people in those fields took a research year to get publications? I have a cousin who literally took 2 research years just to get into Derm and he was a great student. Thats possible too.. Probably not what the typical medical student does though. Those are certainly outliers.
 
I wanted to make a thread about the new NRMP "Charting the Outcomes" data but since we're already talking about ECs/research I'll just post it here...

If research/ECs aren't emphasized, how does the average matched psychiatry applicant have 5.6 publications? It's not that much compared to other specialties—but it still threw me, since I'm currently spending my summer as a rising MS2 doing an elective clinical experience instead of research. At my institution (US MD), this summer is the only dedicated opportunity for research. I declined to participate after receiving the common wisdom that publications aren't a necessity to match into psychiatry, and now I'm wondering if I've shot myself in the foot...

View attachment 314702
those numbers include college experiences. I think you're overworrying, just look at the PD survey. I'm sure a portion of the applicants were doing research with the intent to apply to a different specialty then ended up going with psychiatry.
 
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Also what about step 2? Is that need for Psych?

Yes, and if you haven’t gotten a score by your interviews, you will be asked about it. Keep in mind, too, that very few places will rank you until they get that score back, as it’s a requirement for most (if not all?) schools’ graduation, and the residency program doesn’t want to be left with an empty slot should you not graduate on time.
 
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Yes, and if you haven’t gotten a score by your interviews, you will be asked about it. Keep in mind, too, that very few places will rank you until they get that score back, as it’s a requirement for most (if not all?) schools’ graduation, and the residency program doesn’t want to be left with an empty slot should you not graduate on time.
even for DO students? it's not a requirement for graduation.
 
even for DO students? it's not a requirement for graduation.

Is Step 2 of Comlex not a requirement? I‘m not about to argue, but I can honestly say that in 3 years on the selection committee of my program, I never once saw an applicant without one or the other.
 
Is Step 2 of Comlex not a requirement? I‘m not about to argue, but I can honestly say that in 3 years on the selection committee of my program, I never once saw an applicant without one or the other.
Comlex level 2 is a requirement, I took that. I didn't take step 2 yet.
 
Focus on Step 1 First lol.. Thats Step #1 literally. Then worry about other stuff. You have all of MS3 and part of MS4 to do research.

for rising M1's, Step 1 will be P/F and there is growing panic concern that more weight will be placed on research and EC's now (and, inevitably, on Step 2) in order to stand out from all the other "Step 1: Passed".
 
I wanted to make a thread about the new NRMP "Charting the Outcomes" data but since we're already talking about ECs/research I'll just post it here...

If research/ECs aren't emphasized, how does the average matched psychiatry applicant have 5.6 publications? It's not that much compared to other specialties—but it still threw me, since I'm currently spending my summer as a rising MS2 doing an elective clinical experience instead of research. At my institution (US MD), this summer is the only dedicated opportunity for research. I declined to participate after receiving the common wisdom that publications aren't a necessity to match into psychiatry, and now I'm wondering if I've shot myself in the foot...

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See the bolded below:

those numbers include college experiences. I think you're overworrying, just look at the PD survey. I'm sure a portion of the applicants were doing research with the intent to apply to a different specialty then ended up going with psychiatry.


Comlex level 2 is a requirement, I took that. I didn't take step 2 yet.

Step 2 is preferred, but at most places you’re fine with just Level 2 if your app is strong. Very unlikely to be the thing that tips you in the wrong direction.
 
for rising M1's, Step 1 will be P/F and there is growing panic concern that more weight will be placed on research and EC's now (and, inevitably, on Step 2) in order to stand out from all the other "Step 1: Passed".
I agree. I actually am happy my Step 1 contained a numerical number since I did above average than others matching into Psych and DO candidates overall. And I did way better on Step 1 than that God awful Level 1 Comlex.
 
Hey all, DO MS4 Here. Wondering how important research and ECs are for an Psych program, not wanting to go at a big academic place, just any solid place. I probably will have 3-4 abstracts/publications, maybe more.. Have a bunch of ECs, but just wondering in the grand scheme how important are these. K thanks.

I thought it was essential. Psych really seems to care about a person’s personality and evidence of their passion. The most important factor is how you perform during the interview and around the residents. However, you have thousands of people essentially writing the same reasons for “Why psychiatry?” Doing an extracurricular activity really helps you stand out and actually PROVE your passion. I know for a fact that it was a factor in the amount of interviews I received and why my PD said they chose me. To clarify though, I’m not speaking about research. I hadn’t seen anyone emphasize that at all. Extracurricular activities like long time mental health related volunteer activities help you stand out and now that I’m interviewing candidates, its something that always piques my interest in candidates.
 
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I thought it was essential. Psych really seems to care about a person’s personality and evidence of their passion. The most important factor is how you perform during the interview and around the residents. However, you have thousands of people essentially writing the same reasons for “Why psychiatry?” Doing an extracurricular activity really helps you stand out and actually PROVE your passion. I know for a fact that it was a factor in the amount of interviews I received and why my PD said they chose me. To clarify though, I’m not speaking about research. I hadn’t seen anyone emphasize that at all. Extracurricular activities like long time mental health related volunteer activities help you stand out and now that I’m interviewing candidates, its something that always piques my interest in candidates.
thankfully I'm doing those EC related to psych. But def doing lots of research as well
 
USMD. I had good ECs but none of them were psychiatric. They were still something to talk about on interview day. Step scores ~60th percentile got me interviews mostly in my region but a few at top 20 places if you only rank by research dollars (which I don’t, but that’s another conversation). My 40 applications yielded 13 invites. At interviews, I felt like I was asked pretty aggressively “why psychiatry?” but I think I had good answers, ended up matching my first choice.
 
Thats all for the tips.. Also just wondering, I believe it was recommended by the AAMA or some other organization that it is recommended to do 1 Away Psych rotation. I am already doing 2 rotations, 1 at my core site and one at another site... I have a chance to do a 3rd psych elective before ERAS opens. I'm wondering if it would be a problem if I did a 3rd psych rotation? I am just wondering if it would not be recommended as programs may wonder why I'm disregarding a recommendation? Thanks.
 
I wanted to make a thread about the new NRMP "Charting the Outcomes" data but since we're already talking about ECs/research I'll just post it here...

If research/ECs aren't emphasized, how does the average matched psychiatry applicant have 5.6 publications? It's not that much compared to other specialties—but it still threw me, since I'm currently spending my summer as a rising MS2 doing an elective clinical experience instead of research. At my institution (US MD), this summer is the only dedicated opportunity for research. I declined to participate after receiving the common wisdom that publications aren't a necessity to match into psychiatry, and now I'm wondering if I've shot myself in the foot...

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I wonder if this includes research done in undergrad. I contributed to two publications in undergrad that had nothing to do with psychiatry or clinical medicine. I matched in psychiatry. I wonder if "mode" and "median" should be included in these charts as the mean is skewed by outliers
 
Yes, and if you haven’t gotten a score by your interviews, you will be asked about it. Keep in mind, too, that very few places will rank you until they get that score back, as it’s a requirement for most (if not all?) schools’ graduation, and the residency program doesn’t want to be left with an empty slot should you not graduate on time.

Yes to this. Also, I'd look at the website for each program. Some specifically list Step 2 as a requirement to consider an application complete, meaning they wouldn't consider interviewing someone who doesn't have a Step 2 score yet.
 
Yes to this. Also, I'd look at the website for each program. Some specifically list Step 2 as a requirement to consider an application complete, meaning they wouldn't consider interviewing someone who doesn't have a Step 2 score yet.
not necessarily, if your a DO they can use Comlex level 2. I'm taking Step 2, but you don't necessarily need it for all programs as a DO student.
 
Also all wondering.. not sure if anyone is still here. I'm already doing 2 Psychiatry 'audition'/elective rotations and will get 2 LORs from Psychiatrists. Should I do another Psychiatry rotation on my next rotation or should I do something else? I don't think I would get another LOR in time since it'll be pretty close to the time to submit residency applications... It's a child psych rotation btw. How important is it to do 3 elective Psych rotations vs 2 vs any at all with Covid? Thanks.
 
Also all wondering.. not sure if anyone is still here. I'm already doing 2 Psychiatry 'audition'/elective rotations and will get 2 LORs from Psychiatrists. Should I do another Psychiatry rotation on my next rotation or should I do something else? I don't think I would get another LOR in time since it'll be pretty close to the time to submit residency applications... It's a child psych rotation btw. How important is it to do 3 elective Psych rotations vs 2 vs any at all with Covid? Thanks.
You should do what rotation you want to do.
 
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You should do what rotation you want to do.
But what if there is an opportunity to work in something psych related in lieu of a rotation? I already have 2 psych rotations, not sure if doing another 1 is better than getting work experience in Psych. It'll def be hard to do both at the same time.
 
I have a chance to do a 3rd psych elective before ERAS opens. I'm wondering if it would be a problem if I did a 3rd psych rotation? I am just wondering if it would not be recommended as programs may wonder why I'm disregarding a recommendation? Thanks.

I did 5 psych rotations, 4 of which were before ERAS opened and as far as I know it was not seen as a negative. Just make sure you're still doing other things in the spring that interest you as it may come up during interviews and can be something fun to talk about.
 
I did 5 psych rotations, 4 of which were before ERAS opened and as far as I know it was not seen as a negative. Just make sure you're still doing other things in the spring that interest you as it may come up during interviews and can be something fun to talk about.
Thanks for your answer. If I were to do another rotation, I would have 4 completed before ERAS opened (1 during MS3 and 3 during MS4), but if I didn't do child psych I'd have completed 3 only (Only 2 during MS4). Something I have to think about..
 
But what if there is an opportunity to work in something psych related in lieu of a rotation? I already have 2 psych rotations, not sure if doing another 1 is better than getting work experience in Psych. It'll def be hard to do both at the same time.
I am not familiar with having time off rotations to work during third and fourth year. This is a new concept to me.
 
"But what if there is an opportunity to work in something psych related in lieu of a rotation"

"In lieu of" means "instead of"
That doesn't mean I would work in between 3rd and 4th year, that means I would work and do a virtual elective not an 'in person rotation.' Sorry if it wasn't clear before
 
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