How hard is it to become an orthodontist?

[sddat]

Don't attack me. I want to be a general dentist and I am even considering public health because I genuinely enjoy my experiences at the ph clinic.

I just hear over and over that it is nearly impossible to become an orthodontist. I am not going in dentistry just to become ortho, but like many of you..it is something I would not pass up. So, how hard is it? Can anyone share stats or talk about how many students a year get into ortho programs?

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[enfuego]

Overall, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure Tufts admissions said they only have 8 spots or something in their ortho program. It's not a lot. You usually have to be top of your class, which is obviously going to take a lot more work than just making sure you pass. You probably have to be well-rounded, etc, usual stuff too.

 

[Contach]

At Harvard, the Admissions people said that out of their class of 35 or so - (if I remember correctly) 12 got into Ortho last year, 6 got into OMFS, and the rest were dispersed among other specialties.

 

[theplge]

In short, it's really, really hard. Schools only have a few spots for specialities... ortho usually has a couple more than most but it is probably the most competitive speciality. So you have to get really good grades, rock the boards, and get awesome recs to have a realistic shot.

 

[Dentgirl09]

Depends how smart you are, how hard you are willing to work, and how good you are at first impressions / making connections. and even then nothing is certain

(this is what i was told by a student who was just placed into an ortho program)

 

[sddat]

do you only get to go into specialties right after you graduate d-school? Or do the specialty programs include general dentists that have been practicing for years?

Also, around how many ortho programs are there out there?

After you graduate D-school, do you apply to as many specialty programs as possible? Or does it work in a different way?

Thanks guys.

 

[sddat]

At Harvard, the Admissions people said that out of their class of 35 or so - (if I remember correctly) 12 got into Ortho last year, 6 got into OMFS, and the rest were dispersed among other specialties.

Wow, this is such great information. So this is what everyone is always talking about when they say, "If I want to go to specialize, where should I go?" I see.

Thank you for the information everyone!

 

[sddat]

do you only get to go into specialties right after you graduate d-school? Or do the specialty programs include general dentists that have been practicing for years?

Also, around how many ortho programs are there out there?

After you graduate D-school, do you apply to as many specialty programs as possible? Or does it work in a different way?

Thanks guys.

anyone got some answers? pwetty pwease?

 

[water88]

You will have 4 years of dental school to figure out what you want to specialize or if you even want to specailize at all. You might find out that you don't have the grades for Ortho or that you like Endo more. The point is that it is too early to think about this.

 

[CountinCavities]

You will have 4 years of dental school to figure out what you want to specialize or if you even want to specailize at all. You might find out that you don't have the grades for Ortho or that you like Endo more. The point is that it is too early to think about this.

It might be way to early to plan on it. But it's not too early to ask questions about how the process works.

 

[Jake8]

General Dentists can do little mini residencies as part of continuing education and be certified to do orthodontics. While you may not want to tackle weird or difficult cases, you should be competent to perform routine cases. Basically even if you don't become an orthodontist, you can still acquire the trade later on. Also keep in mind that if you specialize in one area, then legally you can only practice in that area. If you pick up the trade later on as part of continuing education then you can still perform your normal duties as well as your newly acquired skills.

 

[vlct0ria]

General Dentists can do little mini residencies as part of continuing education and be certified to do orthodontics. While you may not want to tackle weird or difficult cases, you should be competent to perform routine cases. Basically even if you don't become an orthodontist, you can still acquire the trade later on. Also keep in mind that if you specialize in one area, then legally you can only practice in that area. If you pick up the trade later on as part of continuing education then you can still perform your normal duties as well as your newly acquired skills.

So, for example, an orthodontist who did really well in dental school to earn their residency spot is not legally allowed to practice general dentistry if they choose? Why is that so- a way of ensuring that general dentists stay in business perhaps?

 

[dds4yrs]

here are all of the ortho programs, and sometimes people will practice a couple of years and then return to try ortho.

http://www.natmatch.com/dentres/

 

[PDizzle]

Really hard. Most try to match right out of DS because everything you do as a general dentist doesn't apply to ortho so there's no point in practicing for a few years.

It's a good idea to at least think you might want to go ortho before you start DS. You have to have a really high class standing and absolutely crush the NBDE#1. Get some research, volunteer and dental leadership under your belt then get some killer LORs. It's alot of extra work in an already difficult 4 years of DS.

Also, be totally cool with being a general dentist because that's the road you might be on despite your best efforts.

 

[DiscoBalls]

Plus Deneral Dentists refer patients to you, if you are an orthodontist

 

[straightwire]

Don't attack me. I want to be a general dentist and I am even considering public health because I genuinely enjoy my experiences at the ph clinic.

I just hear over and over that it is nearly impossible to become an orthodontist. I am not going in dentistry just to become ortho, but like many of you..it is something I would not pass up. So, how hard is it? Can anyone share stats or talk about how many students a year get into ortho programs?

In general, you will need very good grades, high class rank, and do very well on national boards, and have research experiences to be get into an ortho program. If you don't have those, you better have very very good connection with some ortho program directors. There are probably around 50-60 ortho programs in the country and yield about 300+ spots every year. You start to apply for specialty programs in your fourth year in dental school. Of couse you can also practice general dentistry first then apply to specialty if you wish.

 

[Mazmel]

i was hanging out with a bunch of ortho residents the other week. they told me that they all had around a 99 on the boards, great letters of recommendation, lots of community service and extracurriculars.

its insanely hard to get into an ortho program.

 

[Svart Aske]

Aside from lucrativeness and the relatively comfortable lifestyle, what's the allure of being an orthodontist? It seems like one of the less interesting and satisfying options available upon getting a dental degree.

 

[Epictetus21]

So, for example, an orthodontist who did really well in dental school to earn their residency spot is not legally allowed to practice general dentistry if they choose? Why is that so- a way of ensuring that general dentists stay in business perhaps?

It's not a legal issue, its an ADA bylaws issue. The dental community agreed a long time ago that if they are going to give you one of the very limited specialty residency slots, then they want you to practice in that area and get the most use out of the extra training, leaving the general procedures to the GPs. So you're not going to go to jail if you do general procedures as a specialist, you just might not get any referrals from your local GPs (death to your practice) if they find out that you are doing general. If you really go overboard you could be brought before the state dental board and get some kind of censure.

 

[Istr8nthem]

Aside from lucrativeness and the relatively comfortable lifestyle, what's the allure of being an orthodontist? It seems like one of the less interesting and satisfying options available upon getting a dental degree.

To each their own I suppose. I love orthodontics because every case is a problem to be solved. Every case is different and there are so many ways to treat the same case. I am a very visual person and treating a patient for 2 years and seeing a general progression toward a final outcome that has been treatment planning is very fulfilling for me. I enjoy building relationships with my patients and having them enjoy coming to see me because they know I wont be sticking them with a needle (unless I'm placing TAD's) and drilling out cavities! I also enjoy working with a mostly adolescent population that are very enthusiastic (usually) about life and enjoy the time and conversations you have with them. As an orthodontist you get to see dramatic visual results over time with a patient population that knows you as the "nice" dentist. Works for me.

It's not a legal issue, its an ADA bylaws issue. The dental community agreed a long time ago that if they are going to give you one of the very limited specialty residency slots, then they want you to practice in that area and get the most use out of the extra training, leaving the general procedures to the GPs. So you're not going to go to jail if you do general procedures as a specialist, you just might not get any referrals from your local GPs (death to your practice) if they find out that you are doing general. If you really go overboard you could be brought before the state dental board and get some kind of censure.

A specialist can technically do anything they choose in their practice as long as they advertise themselves as a general dentist and not a specialist. So, if I got sick of ortho and decided I wanted to go back to general, I would have to advertise myself as a general dentist and change the signs in front of my office and then I could do anything I want in my practice. Unfortunately the reverse does not apply if you have not completed a specialty program.

 

[Svart Aske]

To each their own I suppose. I love orthodontics because every case is a problem to be solved. Every case is different and there are so many ways to treat the same case. I am a very visual person and treating a patient for 2 years and seeing a general progression toward a final outcome that has been treatment planning is very fulfilling for me. I enjoy building relationships with my patients and having them enjoy coming to see me because they know I wont be sticking them with a needle (unless I'm placing TAD's) and drilling out cavities! I also enjoy working with a mostly adolescent population that are very enthusiastic (usually) about life and enjoy the time and conversations you have with them. As an orthodontist you get to see dramatic visual results over time with a patient population that knows you as the "nice" dentist. Works for me.

Thanks for responding. Is it something you will be satisfied with doing for the rest of your life? How much growth in research and technology can the field expect? Is it interesting beyond a problem-solving perspective?

 

[sajjy]

At Harvard, the Admissions people said that out of their class of 35 or so - (if I remember correctly) 12 got into Ortho last year, 6 got into OMFS, and the rest were dispersed among other specialties.

I do remember that but i have talked to a 2008 graduate and he said 16 out of 35 matched into Ortho this year. But he did say that everyone was matched to their top choices. I dont know who is right but still seems like a high number.

 

[Kneecoal]

Aside from lucrativeness and the relatively comfortable lifestyle, what's the allure of being an orthodontist? It seems like one of the less interesting and satisfying options available upon getting a dental degree.

oh my goodness. i've wanted to be an orthodontist since i got my own braces when i was 14. worked as a lab assistant at an ortho office from 15 - 18, did an internship/shadowing sophomore year of college with an orthodontist... as someone who's done art all my life, i feel there's a certain art to orthodontics - depending on what kinds of wires and procedures you add to the teeth to ultimately move them into a more aesthetically pleasing result.

i remember when i used to work at the first office, they had a case where this kid was born with only one adult front tooth that grew in straight down the middle - all the work they had to do to move all the teeth over to make a space for an implant was so cool!

annnnd i sound like a huge nerd.

 

[Waitlisted2009]

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[Svart Aske]

You can do it if you want to, its all work

Astounding insight.

 

[Vicviper]

To add to some of the specialty stats that were mentioned earlier, Columbia said that last year, everyone from there who applied to Ortho (12), were Matched, and the same goes for Pitt (10 I think), with everyone from Pitt matched being in top 15% of the class. Some schools have more ortho seats than others, I think UCLA has like 4-6, and Pitt has at least 10.

 

[Waitlisted2009]

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[PDizzle]

UCSF had a 100% ortho match rate this last cycle. Not sure how many people applied..I think 6 or 7.

 

[Istr8nthem]

Thanks for responding. Is it something you will be satisfied with doing for the rest of your life? How much growth in research and technology can the field expect? Is it interesting beyond a problem-solving perspective?

I feel as though I will be happy doing this until I die, which is a characteristic of a job I always was hoping for! There isn't a day where I am at work and thinking to myself, this sucks, why did I choose to be an orthodontist.... As far as research and technology, orthodontics is changing on a daily basis. Bracket systems, new wires, digital models, x-ray technology such as conebeam technology, etc is starting to have a profound effect on all aspects of dentistry with ortho being right up there. Check out a company called Suresmile (www.suresmile.com). They can take a conebeam x-ray file taken from a patient of yours that has brackets placed and create a wire sequence of YOUR CHOICE and send you wires which you can use to treat the patient. This is NOT a company that markets to GP's as you need extensive orthodontic treatment planning training and need to know at what point you should implement this company's technology. It CAN help you save time and money when used with the right cases. I'm not saying I use this company, or that it is going to take over orthodontics, I'm simply saying it's a new choice for orthodontists and is pretty unbelievable!! This is just one example of how things are changing! Pick up an ortho, or for that matter, a dental supply catalog and see all the crazy products out there. Also, check out pubmed and search for some research being done in orthodontics and other dental fields, there are some pretty amazing things going on now!

 

[armorshell]

UCSF had a 100% ortho match rate this last cycle. Not sure how many people applied..I think 6 or 7.

10/11 matched from Pacific.

 

[Waitlisted2009]

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[Black Teeth]

Is there a website with more information? Like each school how many matched?

Match statistics are pretty misleading when it comes to evaluating the ability of a dental school to help you get accepted into a specialty program. Everyone who has ever applied to specialty programs knows that there are two components involved in getting accepted. The first component is your academic and extracurricular credentials. The second component is your interview skills. You can hold the dental school partly responsible for the first component but you can't hold it responsible for the interview component. How you perform on the interview is entirely your own doing. It's not the fault of the dental school if the applicant performs poorly on the interview and therefore, not able to match to a specialty. Dental schools are in the business of fixing teeth...not personality issues. By judging a dental school based on match statistics, you are holding the dental school responsible for your performance on the interview and that's unfair because the dental school has no control over your interview skills. A better indicator of a dental school's ability to help get an applicant into specialty programs is the average number of interviews recieved by applicants from that particular school.

 

[Vicviper]

I'm sure there must be a website with all of these stats somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it. I got all of my information from my interviews and talking with faculty at the dental schools

 

[Waitlisted2009]

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[DrReo]

10/11 matched from Pacific.

So, were they all top ten percent in the class ?

 

[Silent Cool]

So, were they all top ten percent in the class ?

+1.

Armorshell, do you have any insight on that?

thanx

 

[dentalWorks]

Don't attack me. I want to be a general dentist and I am even considering public health because I genuinely enjoy my experiences at the ph clinic.

I just hear over and over that it is nearly impossible to become an orthodontist. I am not going in dentistry just to become ortho, but like many of you..it is something I would not pass up. So, how hard is it? Can anyone share stats or talk about how many students a year get into ortho programs?

Ortho is very competitive field (I think its ranked #1 in competitiveness ~ but don't quote me on that).

Overall, you know how difficult it is to gain admissions to dental school? Becoming an ortho is probably 10x harder (not exaggerating). Its very hard to explain how much more work it is to being top ranked in your dental class (as opposed to guy whom just wants to cruse by passing with C-'s), and yes, to be competitive for ortho you need to be in the top rankings (10-15% is the bare minimum).

 

[Glimmer1991]

So long as you make 100s in all of your DS classes, it should be easy. If not, it gets harder.