How hard is it to get an away rotation?

[stickgirl390]

With the AAMC announcement that away rotations will most likely be opened back up in August of this year, it seems as if all medical students will be competing for the same 3 month rotation window. There is one specific program I really want to match at. It’s very middle of the road in terms of competitiveness, but they only offer one rotating away student per 4 week block. Essentially, only 3 spots before interviews will begin.

How competitive are VSAS apps usually?

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[FutureDoctor5000]

With the AAMC announcement that away rotations will most likely be opened back up in August of this year, it seems as if all medical students will be competing for the same 3 month rotation window. There is one specific program I really want to match at. It’s very middle of the road in terms of competitiveness, but they only offer one rotating away student per 4 week block. Essentially, only 3 spots before interviews will begin.

How competitive are VSAS apps usually?

You dont have to go through VSAS, some programs dont use VSAS and you can go through their individual websites, many are open for away rotations before august.

 

[stickgirl390]

You dont have to go through VSAS, some programs dont use VSAS and you can go through their individual websites, many are open for away rotations before august.

Thank you!

 

[bigfootisreal]

With the AAMC announcement that away rotations will most likely be opened back up in August of this year, it seems as if all medical students will be competing for the same 3 month rotation window. There is one specific program I really want to match at. It’s very middle of the road in terms of competitiveness, but they only offer one rotating away student per 4 week block. Essentially, only 3 spots before interviews will begin.

How competitive are VSAS apps usually?

What specialty?

 

[NotAnotherPreMed]

Depends on what specialty, but depends more on 1) your step 1 and 2) what tier of med school you come from.

 

[aldol16]

You dont have to go through VSAS, some programs dont use VSAS and you can go through their individual websites, many are open for away rotations before august.

I don't see any open yet for the coming academic year.

 

[stickgirl390]

I don't see any open yet for the coming academic year.

No, I’m going off of the current year. Some programs allowed in state aways.

 

[stickgirl390]

Depends on what specialty, but depends more on 1) your step 1 and 2) what tier of med school you come from.

OBGYN, step 230-235, mid tier program, but our students match really well, lots of ivy leagues

 

[NotAnotherPreMed]

Yeah that should be fine just make sure you apply just when it opens, timing is key too!

 

[bigfootisreal]

Would it be a bad idea to apply to one of these open ones that are technically for the end of last cycle but that are like in June?

 

[aldol16]

No, I’m going off of the current year. Some programs allowed in state aways.

For the current cycle, it was mainly people who didn't have home programs.

 

[aldol16]

Would it be a bad idea to apply to one of these open ones that are technically for the end of last cycle but that are like in June?

Probably, given the AAMC recommendation just released. I mean, if you want to do it in June that may be okay to get it done early but it may be too early. Plus if people follow AAMC guideline, then you can only do 1 away anyway.

 

[7331poas]

You dont have to go through VSAS, some programs dont use VSAS and you can go through their individual websites, many are open for away rotations before august.

I mean, are you planning on going on multiple away rotations even though the AAMC issued specific guidance not to? My school wont even allow us to schedule multiple aways.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I mean, are you planning on going on multiple away rotations even though the AAMC issued specific guidance not to? My school wont even allow us to schedule multiple aways.

It depends on what my school allows I am a DO student. Also those guidelines were specifically for the 2020-2021 school year and not the 2021-2022? The 2021-2022 guidelines say that you can start doing away rotations starting august 2021.

 

[7331poas]

It depends on what my school allows I am a DO student. Also those guidelines were specifically for the 2020-2021 school year and not the 2021-2022?

Why would students graduating in July 2021 be interested in away rotations opening in August 2021? Did you read the guidance?

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Why would students graduating in July 2021 be interested in away rotations opening in August 2021? Did you read the guidance?

Lol what i am class of 2022, this is about class of 2022 and 2021-2022 academic year...

 

[7331poas]

Lol what i am class of 2022, this is about class of 2022 and 2021-2022 academic year...

...correct

You stated that the 1 away rotation limit was only for 2020-2021 students ("those guidelines were specifically for the 2020-2021 school year and not the 2021-2022"). I am stating that is incorrect. The new guidance limits students who are in the 2021-2022 class to 1 away rotation and "actively discourages" students from going to multiple rotations.

 

[stickgirl390]

Would it be a bad idea to apply to one of these open ones that are technically for the end of last cycle but that are like in June?

The current cycle at the program I’m interested in are only for in state applicants, I’m in a neighboring state

 

[Cath Up]

The statement very clear that they want students in the class of 2022 to complete 1 away rotation max starting after August 1 of 2021. They encourage programs to burn you if they see you've done more than one.

What is terrifying is that I don't know if this will be ignored or widely adhered to. I would have loved to rotate a lot in a far away region where I am from but where my school is *not*.

Medical Student Away Rotations for Remainder of 2020-21 and 2021-22 Academic Year

The Coalition for Physician Accountability released recommendations for applicants and training programs as they prepare for the 2020-21 residency cycle.

www.aamc.org

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

The statement very clear that they want students in the class of 2022 to complete 1 away rotation max starting after August 1 of 2021. They encourage programs to burn you if they see you've done more than one.

What is terrifying is that I don't know if this will be ignored or widely adhered to. I would have loved to rotate a lot in a far away region where I am from but where my school is *not*.

Medical Student Away Rotations for Remainder of 2020-21 and 2021-22 Academic Year

The Coalition for Physician Accountability released recommendations for applicants and training programs as they prepare for the 2020-21 residency cycle.

www.aamc.org

Yea I am wondering the same, they are guidelines and not a hard rule per se, does anyone from last year who did aways know if they actually burned anyone for this? I mean I wouldn’t mind doing online electives at all, I just need to be in another geographic area to be with my SO..

 

[ciestar]

Yea I am wondering the same, they are guidelines and not a hard rule per se, does anyone from last year who did aways know if they actually burned anyone for this? I mean I wouldn’t mind doing online electives at all, I just need to be in another geographic area to be with my SO..

Someone in the panic thread mentioned getting asked about doing more than one away.

 

[aldol16]

Yea I am wondering the same, they are guidelines and not a hard rule per se, does anyone from last year who did aways know if they actually burned anyone for this? I mean I wouldn’t mind doing online electives at all, I just need to be in another geographic area to be with my SO..

Pretty sure you can't just apply last year's advice to this year. Last year, they really discouraged aways from anybody who had a home program. The only people going on aways were people who didn't have home programs (to my knowledge). They're more clear on their guidelines this year: 1) Aways start on August 1 at the earliest (possibly later depending on what happens in between) and 2) Strongly encourage programs to enforce the only 1 away policy. If this is enforceable, i.e., visible by programs, then it would disadvantage you to do more than 1 away. You don't want to be that guy who's viewed as not being a team player by breaking the rules.

 

[7331poas]

Pretty sure you can't just apply last year's advice to this year. Last year, they really discouraged aways from anybody who had a home program. The only people going on aways were people who didn't have home programs (to my knowledge). They're more clear on their guidelines this year: 1) Aways start on August 1 at the earliest (possibly later depending on what happens in between) and 2) Strongly encourage programs to enforce the only 1 away policy. If this is enforceable, i.e., visible by programs, then it would disadvantage you to do more than 1 away. You don't want to be that guy who's viewed as not being a team player by breaking the rules.

I don't see how it wouldn't be viewable by programs. It would show up on your transcript.

 

[calivianya]

I just don’t get it... so programs are just going to be okay with us not having letters other than character letters? I’m thinking about applying rads. I don’t get any third year electives, and we have no teaching programs in rads. I’m not even sure we have anyone in rads to be a preceptor here.

So I can get, what? One academic rads letter max from my one away? And programs are going to be okay with just one letter in the specialty?

 

[Cath Up]

I just don’t get it... so programs are just going to be okay with us not having letters other than character letters? I’m thinking about applying rads. I don’t get any third year electives, and we have no teaching programs in rads. I’m not even sure we have anyone in rads to be a preceptor here.

So I can get, what? One academic rads letter max from my one away? And programs are going to be okay with just one letter in the specialty?

Exactly. It's terrifying, and you don't know what other students in your situation are going to do.

 

[aldol16]

I don't see how it wouldn't be viewable by programs. It would show up on your transcript.

I'm not sure about the bureaucratic process, i.e., if you have to apply it for credit if you already have enough credits to graduate. But in either case, people should stick to the rules and not game the system.

 

[aldol16]

I just don’t get it... so programs are just going to be okay with us not having letters other than character letters? I’m thinking about applying rads. I don’t get any third year electives, and we have no teaching programs in rads. I’m not even sure we have anyone in rads to be a preceptor here.

Last year there were differences in the rules for students without home programs so it may be the case this year too as the year winds on. Keep an eye out.

 

[Prehealth1011]

I'll copy paste one of my previous posts. Follow these steps to maximize your chances of getting rotations:
1. Find new residencies that opened recently
2. Find former AOA programs that are now ACGME
3. Look for small community programs. E.g. Hospitals with only 2-3 residencies? FM and IM only? Score
4. Clinician Nexus
5. VSAS
In this order. #1 to #4 is the least likely to use VSAS. This is to ensure you get a rotation and a LOR/you get the maximum yield out of your applications. Send this list to your classmates as well. If VSAS is all you know when it comes to finding rotations, you're doing it wrong.

Yes #4 > #5. HCA or not, it's MUCH more high yield to get rotations via Cliniciannexus than the blackhole that is VSAS

 

[AzBasRad]

I just don’t get it... so programs are just going to be okay with us not having letters other than character letters? I’m thinking about applying rads. I don’t get any third year electives, and we have no teaching programs in rads. I’m not even sure we have anyone in rads to be a preceptor here.

So I can get, what? One academic rads letter max from my one away? And programs are going to be okay with just one letter in the specialty?

Yes! Radiology is special in that clinical letters are weighted more heavily than rads letters. Medical students cannot contribute meaningfully in the reading room, and DR PDs are aware of this. IR is of course the exception.

Meaningful DR faculty letters can often come from rads research experiences. In terms of securing a personalized LoR, doing an early virtual away, connecting with a faculty and pumping out a few case reports prior to application will be far more beneficial to you than physically sitting in a random reading room and watching the residents dictate cases in August.

One DR letter is completely fine and two is the maximum. See the following resources from AMSER and Petra Lewis (Dartmouth).

https://www.aur.org/uploadedFiles/Alliances/AMSER/Medical_Student_Resources/AMSER%20Guide%20to%20Applying%20for%20Radiology%20Residency%202019.pdf

 

[stickgirl390]

I'll copy paste one of my previous posts. Follow these steps to maximize your chances of getting rotations:
1. Find new residencies that opened recently
2. Find former AOA programs that are now ACGME
3. Look for small community programs. E.g. Hospitals with only 2-3 residencies? FM and IM only? Score
4. Clinician Nexus
5. VSAS
In this order. #1 to #4 is the least likely to use VSAS. This is to ensure you get a rotation and a LOR/you get the maximum yield out of your applications. Send this list to your classmates as well. If VSAS is all you know when it comes to finding rotations, you're doing it wrong.

Yes #4 > #5. HCA or not, it's MUCH more high yield to get rotations via Cliniciannexus than the blackhole that is VSAS

For me, personally, I have great support from my home institution regarding letters/graduation requirements etc. I’m only looking to do aways at specific programs I’m interested in to increase my chances of matching there.

That being said, I appreciate your advice and I’m sure there are a lot of people on here who will benefit from it!

 

[7331poas]

Yes! Radiology is special in that clinical letters are weighted more heavily than rads letters. Medical students cannot contribute meaningfully in the reading room, and DR PDs are aware of this. IR is of course the exception.

Meaningful DR faculty letters can often come from rads research experiences. In terms of securing a personalized LoR, doing an early virtual away, connecting with a faculty and pumping out a few case reports prior to application will be far more beneficial to you than physically sitting in a random reading room and watching the residents dictate cases in August.

One DR letter is completely fine and two is the maximum. See the following resources from AMSER and Petra Lewis (Dartmouth).

https://www.aur.org/uploadedFiles/Alliances/AMSER/Medical_Student_Resources/AMSER%20Guide%20to%20Applying%20for%20Radiology%20Residency%202019.pdf

Sure, but i dont think that is responsive to the core problem here is that perhaps there are specialties where that is not true. What if they want to apply surgery or even vascular surgery but do not have home program faculty?

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

How about the competitiveness of a top program (~Top 20) for a non-competitive specialty?

 

[AzBasRad]

Sure, but i dont think that is responsive to the core problem here is that perhaps there are specialties where that is not true. What if they want to apply surgery or even vascular surgery but do not have home program faculty?

My response is pertinent to DR only and is not meant to be generalizable. In IR, an applicant can derive a lot of value from a live away even if they have a home program.

 

[calivianya]

Guys, I’m doing a deep dive here. One more question... the email states that students for the remainder of this year should not have always except...

• Learners who have a specialty interest and do not have access to a clinical experience with a residency program in that specialty in their school’s system.

It says “in their school’s system,” not “at their own core hospital.” Does this mean that any core hospital for your school counts as a home institution and not as an away? I’m 1,000 miles away from my school right now and my core hospital is in a different state than my school’s other core hospitals. But this email talks about an away being outside of the school’s system. I’d be stoked if I could get into my school’s other hospitals in different states and not count it as an away, if that makes sense.