How heavily do Psy.D programs weigh the GRE?

[violetpurple]

I am only applying to Psy.D programs. However, I'd like to go to a respectable program, and I have applied to Yeshiva, Palo Alto, Indianapolis, Denver, and Xavier. I was going to apply to GW and Loyola, but I knew I didn't have a shot. My GRE math score is horrible. I was actually getting like ALL the questions wrong until I re-learned algebra (which only brought my math score up to the 47th percentile). I am hopeless at geometry. My verbal score was much better, but it looks like psychology programs prefer high quantitative scores. My undergraduate GPA was above a 3.6, I was Phi Beta Kappa, Honors College, etc. I am also an older/non-traditional applicant with years of work experience. Am I still out of the running w/ the more respectable Psy.D programs? I keep reading that there is no way someone with low test scores could get into an accredited PhD program -- what about PsyD programs? If all else fails, should I go to one of the professional schools, or get a master's in psychology and try to transfer into a decent program next year? I saw that Denver and Xavier are pretty generous with transfer credits.

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[PsyDLICSW]

I am only applying to Psy.D programs. However, I'd like to go to a respectable program, and I have applied to Yeshiva, Palo Alto, Indianapolis, Denver, and Xavier. I was going to apply to GW and Loyola, but I knew I didn't have a shot. My GRE math score is horrible. I was actually getting like ALL the questions wrong until I re-learned algebra (which only brought my math score up to the 47th percentile). I am hopeless at geometry. My verbal score was much better, but it looks like psychology programs prefer high quantitative scores. My undergraduate GPA was above a 3.6, I was Phi Beta Kappa, Honors College, etc. I am also an older/non-traditional applicant with years of work experience. Am I still out of the running w/ the more respectable Psy.D programs? I keep reading that there is no way someone with low test scores could get into an accredited PhD program -- what about PsyD programs? If all else fails, should I go to one of the professional schools, or get a master's in psychology and try to transfer into a decent program next year? I saw that Denver and Xavier are pretty generous with transfer credits.

I have battled with the GRE myself, so i have been where you are. PsyD programs are not as strict with low GRE scores, but most reputable University Based Programs like Xavier, Denver, IUP, Marshall, and Wright State will not accept a score of either below 1000 combined (old scale) or below 500 on each section (old scale). Applying to programs is worth a try, but if you do not get in, go to a good masters program and try to get your GRE above 1000. I studied for 2 hours daily for sixth months just to get above 1000, so I know how difficult it is. I managed to get in to several PsyD programs after retaking the GRE several times, so good luck!

 

[wigflip]

Insiders Guide might be helpful here--I don't have mine handy at the moment, but don't they list average GRE scores for programs?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I'm likely not going to make any friends saying this, but in addition to what's been mentioned above, I would strongly recommend that you take an in-depth look at what it is about the GRE that's giving you problems, and attempt to make an honest assessment if doctoral study in clinical psych is right for you.

Standardized exams don't stop once you're finished with the GRE. At the very least, you'll be taking tests while in school and for licensure (EPPP), in addition to any specialty boards you wish to attempt. The GRE isn't a perfect analogy to these obviously given the subject matter, but the ability to prepare for the exam itself is an important general skill. Additionally, if algebra is giving you that much difficulty, statistics at the grad school level is likely going to be pretty tough as well.

I'm not trying to dishearten you (or anyone else), just offering up my opinion. It may not at all be the case for you, but I think sometimes people get so caught up in what they want their end goal to be, they don't take the time to reflect on whether it's actually what's best suited to their abilities, strengths, and interests.

At the very least, I'd suggest giving the GRE another shot after you've brushed up on the math some more. I'm not exactly a math whiz, either, and I was pretty amazed at how much difference a month of geometry review made in the scores between my first and second practice exams.

 

[PsyDLICSW]

I'm likely not going to make any friends saying this, but in addition to what's been mentioned above, I would strongly recommend that you take an in-depth look at what it is about the GRE that's giving you problems, and attempt to make an honest assessment if doctoral study in clinical psych is right for you.

Standardized exams don't stop once you're finished with the GRE. At the very least, you'll be taking tests while in school and for licensure (EPPP), in addition to any specialty boards you wish to attempt. The GRE isn't a perfect analogy to these obviously given the subject matter, but the ability to prepare for the exam itself is an important general skill. Additionally, if algebra is giving you that much difficulty, statistics at the grad school level is likely going to be pretty tough as well.

I'm not trying to dishearten you (or anyone else), just offering up my opinion. It may not at all be the case for you, but I think sometimes people get so caught up in what they want their end goal to be, they don't take the time to reflect on whether it's actually what's best suited to their abilities, strengths, and interests.

At the very least, I'd suggest giving the GRE another shot after you've brushed up on the math some more. I'm not exactly a math whiz, either, and I was pretty amazed at how much difference a month of geometry review made in the scores between my first and second practice exams.

The GRE only measures one thing: how well someone can take the GRE. The GRE measures novel, purposely tricky math problems and words that no one uses in every day language. It does not measure intelligence, work ethic, knowledge of research methods, or clinical knowledge. The "correlation" or "predictive vale" of the GRE with first year graduate GPA is about .30, which in hard sciences is laughable. It predicts nothing and is just a way to weed out good candidates who are bad at irrelevant tests. I have battled stupid, meaningless tests like the GRE and SAT all my life and managed to graduate Phi Beta Kappa and in the top 1% of my R1 University. The SAT predicted nothing in my case. The GRE predicts nothing with my clinical skills and my grades in school now.

The EPPP on the other hand measures psychology and clinical knowledge. I got a 650 (old scale) on the psychology subject test without studying because it is relevant and is not designed to trick you like the general GRE. I will do just fine on the EPPP.

You do have a point that standardized tests do not end with the GRE, but the GRE is a bad example because it does not measure anything relevant to psychology. I and the OP can do algebra just fine when ETS is not trying to trick us.

 

[ToneTone]

Ugh, the GRE! I studied for months as well and got a pretty low score. The only section I did well on was writing. However, I've gotten an A in every statistics class I have taken but have always struggled with the other math courses. I don't personally agree that one's GRE score means they will not do well in school. My SAT scores were not great either and I did well in undergrad balancing a double major, 21 units and a job most years.
If I had to take the GRE again, I would have done more full length timed practice exams. I wrote about 7 practice essays but only practiced the full length once (I wanted to pass out of remedial writing at my first choice school if admitted). I'd like to think my score would have been better if I had taken the time to do so, but who knows.
Btw, if you feel you have to relearn concepts I liked the Manhattan series. They break down math very well. I felt I understood the material but once I was in timed conditions I freaked out. Hopefully you won't make the same mistake I did
My 2nd choice was one of those schools you mentioned and I didn't get an interview. However, I also don't have research experience (lots of clinical though) so I cant say for sure my score had something to do with it.
Good luck!

 

[ToneTone]

Btw , manhattan is an 8 book series and there is just a geometry book you can purchase. It includes 6 computerized practice tests you can take up to a year.

 

[Pragma]

The GRE only measures one thing: how well someone can take the GRE. The GRE measures novel, purposely tricky math problems and words that no one uses in every day language. It does not measure intelligence, work ethic, knowledge of research methods, or clinical knowledge. The "correlation" or "predictive vale" of the GRE with first year graduate GPA is about .30, which in hard sciences is laughable. It predicts nothing and is just a way to weed out good candidates who are bad at irrelevant tests. I have battled stupid, meaningless tests like the GRE and SAT all my life and managed to graduate Phi Beta Kappa and in the top 1% of my R1 University. The SAT predicted nothing in my case. The GRE predicts nothing with my clinical skills and my grades in school now.

The EPPP on the other hand measures psychology and clinical knowledge. I got a 650 (old scale) on the psychology subject test without studying because it is relevant and is not designed to trick you like the general GRE. I will do just fine on the EPPP.

You do have a point that standardized tests do not end with the GRE, but the GRE is a bad example because it does not measure anything relevant to psychology. I and the OP can do algebra just fine when ETS is not trying to trick us.

The EPPP is a pointless piece of garbage that likely has no predictive value. I know this because I am studying now. I will do fine, but the material on this test has absolutely nothing to do with what I will do as a clinician, aside from ethics.

I would have expected more from psychologists, who are supposedly good at test construction. It is an exercise in mindless, time and money wasting garbage. Why am I memorizing neo-Freudian theory names and dates? Oh yeah, because the EPPP sucks.

That is all.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

The EPPP is a pointless piece of garbage that likely has no predictive value. I know this because I am studying now. I will do fine, but the material on this test has absolutely nothing to do with what I will do as a clinician, aside from ethics.

I would have expected more from psychologists, who are supposedly good at test construction. It is an exercise in mindless, time and money wasting garbage. Why am I memorizing neo-Freudian theory names and dates? Oh yeah, because the EPPP sucks.

That is all.

I don't envy you...mostly because I'll be in your position in a year, give or take. The advice I've received from more than one practitioner is, if possible, teach an intro psych course prior to taking the EPPP, as that's about the best test prep they could think of. If that's actually the case, it's a bit troubling that most of the material on a licensing exam comes from an introductory undergrad course.

 

[Pragma]

I don't envy you...mostly because I'll be in your position in a year, give or take. The advice I've received from more than one practitioner is, if possible, teach an intro psych course prior to taking the EPPP, as that's about the best test prep they could think of. If that's actually the case, it's a bit troubling that most of the material on a licensing exam comes from an introductory undergrad course.

Yes I have done just that and it was excellent prep for certain sections. Ironically, my worst practice scores are on the "clinical psychology" sections, which seem quite psychodynamic from the practice tests.

Oh, and why the heck I/O is on there is beyond me. Why do I need to learn and memorize the names of I/O theorists when a) I don't do I/O and b) I/O psychologists don't even get licensed.

Idiocracy!

Oh and OP: This is relevant, as you will continue to take standardized tests (qualifying exams, EPPP). The GRE was not bad compared to all of this rote memorization. I'm a good test taker but the stakes ($ and consequences for not passing) are too high to risk not studying your bains out. Regarding your question, some Psy.D. programs don't even require the GRE.