MD How important are away rotations?

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Typically, what are some factors to consider when applying to away rotations (are they difficult to get into, depending on the hospital)?
How many do students usually do over the course of their MD education?

and what are some specialties for which doing aways is strongly suggested (or also, not especially needed)?

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Typically, what are some factors to consider when applying to away rotations (are they difficult to get into, depending on the hospital)?
Could be difficult, like some have step cutoffs. You'll want to consider proximity and relative cost. You'll also want to consider whether it's even worth doing a rotation there, like if they even interview their rotators. But you just might want a great letter, which is great too. You'll also want to consider how much of each resident class is filled with rotators. That will give you a good idea about how much they weigh aways at their specific institution. You'll also want to consider how easy it is to get a letter from the chair/PD (can you get enough face time?) What's the structure of the away? Four weeks on one service? Two weeks on two? One week on four different services? The longer you work with an attending the better your letter will potentially be.
You'll have to talk to other applicants to your respective specialty, residents at your home institution that just went through the match, and read the specialty specific spreadsheets.
How many do students usually do over the course of their MD education?
I think it's relatively low. Usually the most competitive specialties require them.
Edit: I thought you were asking how many students do them. For how many are necessary, it depends on the field. I know in ortho it's getting out of control. Nowadays people doing a sub-i + 3 aways isn't unheard of.
and what are some specialties for which doing aways is strongly suggested (or also, not especially needed)?

Necessary: ortho, neurosurg, plastics, vascular, CT, +/- IR, uro(?), EM

Not necessary, but can help: ENT, GS, OB/GYN

On top of this, there are people applying for mid tier specialties or noncompetitive specialties that want to match at a top tier institution or in a specific, competitive location. Some want to couples match. Those are other factors to consider.
 
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You NEED to do aways in EM, General surg, ortho, plastics, neuro, vascular. Maybe ENT too.
You definitely don't need to do any aways for gen surg. It's not a must for ENT, but it's becoming more common.

The rationale behind away rotations is typically that you need to prove that you're a workhorse and that your presence is a net positive, lol. They are the most reliable proxy measure programs have for determining your work ethic. In the specialties where the patient to doctor ratio is very large, if one resident drops the ball, it can have major repercussions for the rest of the team, so they need to know that you will pull your weight, and then some.
 
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Your schools' advisors might have specific advice too. For whatever reason we have certain departments that tell us not to do a single away rotation (e.g. Ophtho) despite being competitive to match. Probably depends on whether it's actually possible to be helpful or make a good impression as a MS3/early MS4.
 
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Your schools' advisors might have specific advice too. For whatever reason we have certain departments that tell us not to do a single away rotation (e.g. Ophtho) despite being competitive to match. Probably depends on whether it's actually possible to be helpful or make a good impression as a MS3/early MS4.

True. And granted that you have a good relationship with your department, they can recommend where to do aways at, so that you can maximize your interview yield.
 
If I have a strong geographical preference for residency, even if the specialty itself isn’t competitive (IM, Neuro), would doing always be helpful (in that region)?

on a side note; curious about radiation oncology. Is that very competitive?
 
If I have a strong geographical preference for residency, even if the specialty itself isn’t competitive (IM, Neuro), would doing always be helpful (in that region)?
Probs depends on the region/residency. Nobody needs to convince any Californian cities that they're cool to live in. But places in the Midwest/South probs would be a lot more skeptical of apps coming from people that have spent all their life and schooling on the coasts.

on a side note; curious about radiation oncology. Is that very competitive?
not anymore
 
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Probs depends on the region/residency. Nobody needs to convince any Californian cities that they're cool to live in. But places in the Midwest/South probs would be a lot more skeptical of apps coming from people that have spent all their life and schooling on the coasts.


not anymore

I might be wrong but I thought it was one of the more competitive specialties. Can you elaborate? Thank you!
 
I might be wrong but I thought it was one of the more competitive specialties. Can you elaborate? Thank you!

Traditionally they were. You get to "cure" cancer and make bank working banker's hours.

Now it's way oversaturated and they keep expanding residencies with no end in sight. Take a hop, skip, and a jump over to the rad onc forums. Make sure to get your popcorn ready.
 
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Traditionally they were. You get to "cure" cancer and make bank working banker's hours.
Now it's way oversaturated and they keep expanding residencies with no end in sight. Take a hop, skip, and a jump over to the rad onc forums. Make sure to get your popcorn ready.

Omg if they keep expanding residencies, does that mean that the job market (for attending positions in popular cities/regions) is becoming extremely difficult??
 
Omg if they keep expanding residencies, does that mean that the job market (for attending positions in popular cities/regions) is becoming extremely difficult??

That's exactly the case. Better be willing to move to Idaho if you want gainful employment.
 
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Rad Onc was among the most competitive. Then they doubled the number of residency slots in ~10 years. Last couple of years there's been a bunch of unmatched seats, and if you wander over to the RadOnc forum, you'll see nothing but horror stories about how recent residency graduates are being forced into bad locations, very low pay, or unintended fellowship years.
 
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That's exactly the case. Better be willing to move to Idaho if you want gainful employment.


Dammit bro, keep the mountain west states a secret. Can’t have people flocking there.
 
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Aways are a must for general surgery. I did three in total, and that was considered high for my school (most did 1 or 2).

I would focus on rotating in locations you wouldn't mind living in residency. Would also recommend rotating at places with big names.

When you accept an away, try and work on the service containing the Program Director or Chair of the Department/Division.
 
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In my opinion, there are other reasons to do aways besides what's been mentioned here. It's a very large opportunity to network, and I've met people at one program, who during interview season, were able to vouch for me at a different program. This happened more than once! I've even had PDs at an away program, far from my home institution, vouch for me at a different program! (good guy).

There are many different ways aways can play out that would really surprise you. Plus doing back to back aways can really allow you to snowball your knowledge in the field. You'll be a rockstar by your 3rd away, don't pass that opportunity up. Put yourself out there.
 
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Aways are a must for general surgery. I did three in total, and that was considered high for my school (most did 1 or 2).

I would focus on rotating in locations you wouldn't mind living in residency. Would also recommend rotating at places with big names.

When you accept an away, try and work on the service containing the Program Director or Chair of the Department/Division.
This. If you're going to do the leg work of procuring an away, don't stop there. Be strategic. Talk to the program coordinators and make sure they give you face time with the PDs and aPDs. Also give yourself a breather like one week/4 of clinic so you don't burn out.
 
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Aways are a must for general surgery. I did three in total, and that was considered high for my school (most did 1 or 2).

I would focus on rotating in locations you wouldn't mind living in residency. Would also recommend rotating at places with big names.

When you accept an away, try and work on the service containing the Program Director or Chair of the Department/Division.

I stand corrected. I guess times have changed. Wow. Posts edited to reflect this.
 
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I stand corrected. I guess times have changed. Wow. Posts edited to reflect this.

It's all a matter of gamesmanship. If you know you don't want a gen surg fellowship and just want to match a community program you may not have to do them.

If you want to make a jump up, let's say a "community-ish" med school to a major academic gen surg program, then they are necessary.
 
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I have been thinking about this a lot despite it being a bit far away for me. I'm currently planning on doing IM and don't see much changing (maybe only to FM lol). My school requires 3 sub-I's/auditions in M4, but I've heard that for IM, auditions are more likely to hurt you than help you. So, in this case, do you audition at programs you're actually interested in or just get them out of the way at some random programs by your school? Or, just audition/sub-I in other specialities just for the experience of working with residents etc?
 
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I have been thinking about this a lot despite it being a bit far away for me. I'm currently planning on doing IM and don't see much changing (maybe only to FM lol). My school requires 3 sub-I's/auditions in M4, but I've heard that for IM, auditions are more likely to hurt you than help you. So, in this case, do you audition at programs you're actually interested in or just get them out of the way at some random programs by your school? Or, just audition/sub-I in other specialities just for the experience of working with residents etc?

Do them at places for letters or at places that would be reaches for your app and perhaps a rotation there might be what gets you an interview.
 
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