How important is non clinical volunteering?

[justin984]

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[MDTDO]

I've been having trouble finding volunteer opportunities in a clinical setting. The only positions open are for the hospital gift shop etc etc. Are these types of things helpful at all on a medschool app?

I was in the same spot a few months ago and I wound up being able to do stuff w/ patients at the hospital but it'll be over soon..I came to the following conclusion anyway (although it's my logic i think it's on the right track)..

It seems like sacrificing your time to exercise some good will towards people is what's important, which a lot of hospital volunteer stuff doesn't encompass. If possible, I'd find something where you're helping people who need it, and where you actually make a difference, maybe even doing hard work, all of which ain't exactly working in a gift shop.

That's what I'm gonna do anyway, and I'm guessing I'm not alone; I guess I too want to hear some input
mt

 

[ocean42]

I've been having trouble finding volunteer opportunities in a clinical setting. The only positions open are for the hospital gift shop etc etc. Are these types of things helpful at all on a medschool app?

Personally, I think that working in a hospital gift shop isn't going to be very beneficial to you or "look good" on ure app. I would try to join a community service organization like the Red Cross, a local soup kitchen, Habitat for Humanity, etc.

I am not one to advocate volunteering just for the sake of looking good because I choose to spend my time doing things that I enjoy volunteering with. (Go Red Cross!!) However, you have to do something because medical schools need to know you are willing to help others with no direct benefit to yourself.

As far as the clinical experience, working in a hospital isn't the only way. Have you considered shadowing a physician? Most of them wouldn't mind at all, and above all remember to keep asking! Or you can volunteer with a local free clinic...I'm sure your college has a premed organization of some sort, they should have a list of local volunteer oppurtunities!

Good luck with it!

 

[Blue Scrub]

I agree with the above posts....if you cant get a volunteer position helping people in a more beneficial way, then forget the gift shop and try and find another volunteer position that doesnt necessarily have to be medically-related....Habitat and soup kitchens are a good idea....maybe become a big brother/sister...volunteer at blood drives, or shadowing physicians are all good things for your app that are totally doable....if the only hospital position you can get is in the giftshop, maybe you can inquire how long it may take before a more clinical volunteer position opens up

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I wouldn't bother with a hospital gift shop. Try private doctor's offices a crisis hotline, hospice, volunteer with handicapped children...there are soooo many opportunities. if you let doctors or administrators know you are interested in med school, i'd be surprised you are having such a difficult time. Most hospitals have regular volunteer depts and if you let them kow your future aspirations it should make it even easier. Or get someone to refer you.

 

[g3pro]

It seems like sacrificing your time to exercise some good will towards people is what's important, which a lot of hospital volunteer stuff doesn't encompass.

No, it doesn't. What's important is that you fully understand what the clinical part of a physician's life is all about. ADCOMs don't give a s*** whether you volunteered to clean up a street, or wax someone's car, or clean a public bathroom. They want to see that you have experience in the area where you will spend the rest of your life.

"... to exercise some good will towards people" is so contrite and meaningless. These things reflect poorly because they show how driven you are to get into school, not that you have compassion which is a reason you should be admitted.


I remember a piece by the Onion on a student who volunteers for the Salvation Army. All of the other volunteers hated him. The caption: "Malveaux, who is passionately dedicated to getting into Stanford." The facetiousness of your willing to help other people for the sake of getting into medical school is obvious. You should drop the act.

 

[g3pro]

SEATTLE—Volunteers at the Pike Street Salvation Army have grown to hate college-application padder Justin Malveaux, 17, sources reported Monday.

Above: Malveaux, who is passionately dedicated to getting into Stanford.

"It's not that Justin doesn't work hard, because he does," said Karla Perkins, 44, weeknight coordinator at the downtown Seattle soup kitchen. "He does whatever you ask of him, and he's pleasant and polite, always complimenting everyone. Still, I can't stand the little Stanford-application-padding f***er."

Perkins met Malveaux in February, when the Bellingham West High School junior submitted a résumé and cover letter requesting a volunteer position.

"Justin said he wanted to help those less fortunate than him, and also to get his volunteering out of the way so he can concentrate on AP classes next year," Perkins said. "Stanford is his first choice, and UCLA is his 'safety.' He also plans to apply to Washington State 'just for laughs,' whatever that means."

An honors student and active participant in five extracurricular groups, Malveaux said he is committed to making himself an indispensable member of the soup kitchen's Tuesday-evening crew for the four months he plans to be there.

"This experience will be invaluable when I have to write my personal essay, which counts for a lot with Stanford," Malveaux said. "It's the kind of real-world growth experience that goes over huge with the admissions people. And, if I ever need a recommendation, there are several people here who I think I've bonded with enough to ask."

The staff's disdain for the upper-middle-class Malveaux went largely unspoken during his first month and a half at the center, manifesting itself primarily in the occasional eye roll. On March 18, however, a floodgate of vitriol was opened when Malveaux asked staff coordinator Jamal Washburn to leave the employee break room, mistaking him for a homeless man.

"I hate that little rich-kid bastard," Washburn said. "He'll be out the door the second he can say he volunteered here for four months. Or, as he'll put it, 'February 2003 to May 2003.'"

Despite their hatred of him, staffers admitted that Malveaux has been helpful. According to Perkins, he has used his "fresh perspective" to increase efficiency, placing a clipboard at the end of the kitchen table and inviting shelter patrons to sign up for the next evening's meal so that the kitchen might better predict attendance.

To combat staff tardiness, Malveaux suggested that volunteers be permitted three missed shifts before being barred from working at the center.

"As much as I hate to admit it, he has made some improvements," Perkins said. "But he does it in this smug way, like we're so lucky to be graced with the presence of this brilliant, college-bound prodigy, even if only for a few precious months."

"That sunny, can-do attitude is really starting to grate on me," employee Randy Louis said. "Just pass out the tater tots, prepster."

The staff generally uses the 20 minutes Malveaux spends sweeping the parking lot each Tuesday as an opportunity to exchange stories of his naivete.

"A homeless woman came in wearing a Diabetes Awareness Fun Run T-shirt she got from a box at the shelter," Perkins said. "Justin was saying how inspiring it was that this woman could still care about others, even with all her troubles."

Perkins said she finds Malveaux's attempts to connect with her condescending.

"He's finally stopped asking me where I see myself in five years," Perkins said. "I honestly think he thought he was challenging me to ask myself questions I wouldn't ordinarily ask. Like people in my social strata aren't capable of introspection without the help of somebody better-educated."

"Now, he just talks about himself," Perkins continued. "He wants to be a writer, but he might be an international human-rights lawyer. He gave me his solemn word that, whatever he decides, he will use his skills for the betterment of the world. Thank God, now I can sleep at night."

At the end of each shift, Malveaux records his "hours worked" in his PDA and makes a point of getting Perkins to sign off on it—a ritual Perkins has grown to detest.

"He can talk all he wants about how enriching this experience has been, but it's completely obvious that all he's thinking about is how good this is going to look on his transcript," Perkins said. "Here at the Salvation Army, we try to appreciate all the help God sends our way, but I draw the line with that little s***."

You might not think it's obvious, but it is.

 

[Law2Doc]

What's important is that you fully understand what the clinical part of a physician's life is all about. ADCOMs don't give a s*** whether you volunteered to clean up a street, or wax someone's car, or clean a public bathroom. They want to see that you have experience in the area where you will spend the rest of your life.

Well, while I would tend to agree with you for most med schools, at least one med school I looked at, which regarded one of its primary missions as pushing its students toward practicing in underserved areas, seemed preoccupied with whether applicants had done any non-hospital volunteering. The guy in the onion will be very happy there.

 

[45408]

No, it doesn't. What's important is that you fully understand what the clinical part of a physician's life is all about. ADCOMs don't give a s*** whether you volunteered to clean up a street, or wax someone's car, or clean a public bathroom. They want to see that you have experience in the area where you will spend the rest of your life.

"... to exercise some good will towards people" is so contrite and meaningless. These things reflect poorly because they show how driven you are to get into school, not that you have compassion which is a reason you should be admitted.

Yes, we know your shadowing experience was simply to *die for* and that no volunteering is worth your time.


For the OP - don't bother with a gift shop, but if there's some non-clinical volunteering that you enjoy, than I'd say that it is a worthwhile endeavor.

 

[g3pro]

Yes, we know your shadowing experience was simply to *die for* and that no volunteering is worth your time.

Yes, my shadowing experience was incredible. You could try to get the same experience by volunteering in a clinical environment. I never said that getting clinical experience by volunteering is pointless. If you make the right connections, the physicians you are helping will gladly describe and teach you fundamentals of clinical work.

For the OP - don't bother with a gift shop, but if there's some non-clinical volunteering that you enjoy, than I'd say that it is a worthwhile endeavor.

He might enjoy fixing cars, so he should volunteer as a mechanic for other people. Yeah, that's a really good use of his time.



And why are you telling him not to do the gift shop? He might really enjoy selling things.

 

[45408]

He might enjoy fixing cars, so he should volunteer as a mechanic for other people. Yeah, that's a really good use of his time.



And why are you telling him not to do the gift shop? He might really enjoy selling things.

You really suck at reading the tone of posts. How is doing something he enjoys not a good use of his time? I'm sorry, he should only be doing things that kiss ADCOM's asses, because that's all that matters.

 

[g3pro]

You really suck at reading the tone of posts. How is doing something he enjoys not a good use of his time? I'm sorry, he should only be doing things that kiss ADCOM's asses, because that's all that matters.

On the one hand you say that he should be doing something he enjoys, then on the other hand you say he shouldn't be doing gift shop, when that is something he might enjoy doing.



And do I have to quote the OP?

Are these types of things helpful at all on a medschool app?

And the answer is "not really". Doing stuff you enjoy, or volunteering for the sake of volunteering, is not really helpful at all for the application.

 

[AlaskaGirl]

I know that schools like to see some clinical experience, but I don't feel that it was the heart and sould of what they were looking for. In every interview I was asked about clinical experience, of which I had volunteered at an ER, but more important to the interviewer was a sign of commitment to a cause. My example is that I am very interested in obtaining my MPH in community health education along with my MD so I have numerous volunteer hours for the Red Cross education department as well as health/wellness related forums at my university. I spent more of my interviews talking about those experiences than anything I ever did in the ER. So, do what you like as far as volunteering goes...and I would recommend shadowing a doc of some sorts to obtain the clinical exposure. Most ADCOMS know that if you are a volunteer in and ER you are pretty much doing grunt work anyway and get to observe a procedure here and there. I am sure they have heard those stories a million times. Do something a little different with your volunteer time and you will have more to talk about with them.

 

[Thundrstorm]

"... to exercise some good will towards people" is so contrite and meaningless. These things reflect poorly because they show how driven you are to get into school, not that you have compassion which is a reason you should be admitted.

Well, I would hope that adcoms wouldn't necessarily assume that applicants who do non-clinical volunteering are doing so just to get into school (though I imagine that many do). Exercising good will toward others is not trite; it's not meaningless. Volunteering does provide a worthwhile experience for the volunteer, but the reason behind it should be to actually contribute something worthwhile. As someone who volunteers in non-clinical settings (and have been since way before I ever considered med school), I think it's important to consider where the need is when choosing how to volunteer your time. I could've volunteered at the local ER and not really helped anyone but myself in the end, but instead, I've had the pleasure (and challenge) of interacting with children, senior citizens, the mentally ill, homeless individuals, HIV+ individuals, and many other people.... and at the end of the day, I felt that I actually SERVED another person instead of serving my own interests.

 

[MDTDO]

"... to exercise some good will towards people" is so contrite and meaningless. These things reflect poorly because they show how driven you are to get into school, not that you have compassion which is a reason you should be admitted.

After putting my two cents in, I thank you for your input which is exactly what I was looking for! So you're saying that it would be better to not directly help people, actually counterproductive? I'll make a note of that.

The facetiousness of your willing to help other people for the sake of getting into medical school is obvious. You should drop the act.

Maybe I am willing to help other people for their sake. It's something I've been doing for years, inspired by my dad's actions before I was even in high school. Volunteering is a pretty good way to go about it actually. Especially if you were to fly to mexico on your own money to work in a clinic, just for example, way before you were even thinking about considering medical school. But that is obviously an act, you're right. I can see the light now.

Thank you for clarifying my intentions, I had no idea what I was actually doing at the time. To think I thought I was helping people for the sake of helping people.. What a fool. Thanks again though, I'm gonna leave all that off my application because they'll be onto me.

Summary: In my case you're wrong so stop talking. I do see your point but why you chose to try to exemplify me is questionable.

No longer giving advice,
mt

 

[Crete]

"Giving up your time" is admirable but it won't show you care for your fellow man (selling them gifts) or that you have substantial clinical experience (selling gifts). Go to the hospital and talk with a volunteer coordinator, I'm sure they'll find something for you to do on the floor.

 

[45408]

On the one hand you say that he should be doing something he enjoys, then on the other hand you say he shouldn't be doing gift shop, when that is something he might enjoy doing.

I'm gonna go ahead and say it seemed rather clear that the OP wouldn't volunteer in a gift shop for S&G, but only to pad the med school application. Therefore, my advice stands - do what he likes and don't bother with the gift shop.

 

[booradley5]

I've been having trouble finding volunteer opportunities in a clinical setting. The only positions open are for the hospital gift shop etc etc. Are these types of things helpful at all on a medschool app?

Saw your post over in the non-trad forum, but this thread seems a lot more active and helpful, since I have a similar question as a non-trad pre-med myself.

I did a ton volunteering in undergrad for an AIDS Network, about 5-10 hours a week for almost 3 years. I did some fundraising, outreach and the "buddy" program. Not very clinical, but certainly demonstrative of my commitment to helping people. Problem is that this was from 1996-99.

I'll be applying to med school about 8 years after this ended. Does this still have any weight on an application?

My professional life and weird hours since didn't really make volunteering an option. But now that I am taking classes this fall and should have some (limited) free time, should I focus on some more clinical volunteering as an adjunct to the usual shadowing? I'd rather take a p/t job to help ends meet and volunteering would take a shift or two away from the income stream. If it's important enough, though, I will make it a priority.

 

[DrMom]

I've been having trouble finding volunteer opportunities in a clinical setting. The only positions open are for the hospital gift shop etc etc. Are these types of things helpful at all on a medschool app?

Try things like a local homeless shelter, special olympics, etc. Doesn't have to be straight medical, but with places/organizations like that you'll end up learning about health problems & how people cope with them. Also, there often are Drs, PAs, nurses, etc who also volunteer in a similar manner & you may be able to hook up with them and learn more.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

You might not think it's obvious, but it is.

I take great offense to these comments. My brother and I i have worked in a soup kitchen for more years than i can remember. I have done it because i enjoy it and it has been part of my life. I have NEVER used it to pad an application and even after being accepted to med schools (*and my brother is a second yea rlaw student and still does it) i still volunteer at the local soup kitchen...what application am i padding? perhaps some of us who volunteer truly care about what we are doing and the people we are serving.

PS: no one has ever felt my brother or I was padding an application. they all really like us and appreciate our services and they know they can count on us coming in for every family holiday and every school break we are home.

 

[indo]

I take offense to how easily you are offended.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I take offense to how easily you are offended.