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sassykru

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DR. EUGENIC said:
first i think you need to start learning to spell..... :cool:
Oh gosh! Smart asses must come a dime a dozen on SDN!
 

e_phn

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.
 

Mr. Tee

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DR. EUGENIC said:
first i think you need to start learning to spell..... :cool:
wut? i spel jus fine.
 

Brainsucker

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At the risk of starting a long argument: Your MCAT is more important.

"As expected from many earlier studies, MCAT scores were consistently more valuable tha[n] were undergraduate GPAs as predictors of performance on licensing examinations, supporting their continued use in selection decisions. These relationships are stable across three decades and apply to the three examinations."

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/velos001.htm

There's a whole bibliography of MCAT research on the AAMC site, for the curious. http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/start.htm

At the very base of med school admissions, you have to prove that you're capable of doing the work, the MCAT is the best indicator of that. They pile on all sorts of stuff like ECs, clinical exposure, how nice a suit you wear to the interview, but their confidence that you'll perform is key. Applicants occasionally get forgiven poor MCATs if they have everything else lined up and are impressive, but low scoring applicants aren't worth the risk otherwise.
 

Learfan

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Since it is all but impossible for adcom members to compare the quality of students applying with a huge variety in colleges attended, degrees attained, majors, ECs, letters of recommendation, etc. the MCAT is the greate leveler. Those numbers constitute half of your application package. Kill the exam. It will be a major asset to you.
 

R.P. McMurphy

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DR. EUGENIC said:
first i think you need to start learning to spell..... :cool:
That looks like a typo to me. Pointing stuff like that out only makes you look foolish
 

R.P. McMurphy

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DR. EUGENIC said:
I doubt it ......look also at the title of the thread.....important spelled with a D and then mispelled in his post.....highly unlikely :eek:
Who cares???
 

R.P. McMurphy

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Brainsucker said:
At the risk of starting a long argument: Your MCAT is more important.

"As expected from many earlier studies, MCAT scores were consistently more valuable tha[n] were undergraduate GPAs as predictors of performance on licensing examinations, supporting their continued use in selection decisions. These relationships are stable across three decades and apply to the three examinations."

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/velos001.htm

There's a whole bibliography of MCAT research on the AAMC site, for the curious. http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/start.htm

At the very base of med school admissions, you have to prove that you're capable of doing the work, the MCAT is the best indicator of that. They pile on all sorts of stuff like ECs, clinical exposure, how nice a suit you wear to the interview, but their confidence that you'll perform is key. Applicants occasionally get forgiven poor MCATs if they have everything else lined up and are impressive, but low scoring applicants aren't worth the risk otherwise.
The MCAT gives a better indication of how you will perform on the other standardized tests (Step 1,2) There is a big difference between being able to do the work (like passing medical school) and the grade you get on a USMLE. This study is not really all that surprising. You cannot simply do well on the MCAT by knowing the basic sciences- it is a different type of test, one that involves critical thinking. People who are good at this type of thinking generally do well on many other standardized tests too.

In no way am I trying to downplay the importance of the MCAT, it is VERY important. However, while their confidence that you will perform on boards is absolutely essential, I think they take what kind of doctor you will be (compassionate, motivated, friendly, hard-working) into greater consideration, just after whether or not you will pass USMLE, IMO
 
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UMP

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How compassionate you will be is not that important if you can never get past the USMLE's and get licensed... and schools don't want someone failing step 1 and messing up their all so-important %pass rates and average Step 1 scores... When it comes down to it
 

R.P. McMurphy

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UMP said:
MCAT 45%
GPA 40%
Everything Else 15%

How compassionate you will be is not that important if you can never get past the USMLE's and get licensed... and schools don't want someone failing step 1 and messing up their all so-important %pass rates and average Step 1 scores... When it comes down to it
but at the same time, passing the usmle means nothing either if you are an ass and can't connect with patients ;)
 

Looque

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ironmanf14 said:
Who cares???
I care that Dr. Eugenic misspelled "misspelled" as "mispelled," only because I like irony.
 

Fishsticks

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i think that the MCAT is sorta the great equalizer. like GPA's from different schools and different majors mean way different things. for instance yale university 85% of teh undergrad grades were A's and B's, where some schools the distribution is more around 20 or 30 percent. the MCAT is the one test that all of us have to take that is the same across the board so i think its more important than GPA.
 

R.P. McMurphy

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Looque said:
I care that Dr. Eugenic misspelled "misspelled" as "mispelled," only because I like irony.
LMAO!!! :laugh:

The worst kind of trollism EVER. Trying to act cool by being grammar police (which was a typo anyway) and then spelling something wrong in the very same post that you do it in.

That is too funny! :laugh:
 

Brainsucker

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ironmanf14 said:
The MCAT gives a better indication of how you will perform on the other standardized tests (Step 1,2) There is a big difference between being able to do the work (like passing medical school) and the grade you get on a USMLE. This study is not really all that surprising. You cannot simply do well on the MCAT by knowing the basic sciences- it is a different type of test, one that involves critical thinking. People who are good at this type of thinking generally do well on many other standardized tests too.

In no way am I trying to downplay the importance of the MCAT, it is VERY important. However, while their confidence that you will perform on boards is absolutely essential, I think they take what kind of doctor you will be (compassionate, motivated, friendly, hard-working) into greater consideration, just after whether or not you will pass USMLE, IMO
The OP's question was about whether grades or MCAT are more important. I guess I did get a little off track, though (that ain't nothin', watch this). I stand by what I said. Med schools have the luxury and burden of a large applicant pool. That means that they have to slice it somehow, but that after each slice, there's still a lot to choose from. You mention a few intangibles. There are no good measures for those--if there were, there wouldn't be decades of papers hoping for ways to select compassionate doctors--so med schools measure what they can before they attempt to divine what they can't.

What this means can predictably vary by school. The most selective schools let in very, very few students who lack great numbers simply because for every individual with crap numbers and an otherwise awesome app there's another individual with great numbers and an awesome app. Trying to figure out the priorities of adcoms that can have it all is a waste of time.

For less selective medical schools (and less competitive applicants), it's more of an issue. One thing to note is that average MCAT and GPA don't fall as quickly when you leave the most selective few schools as you might expect (consider law schools). This is a pretty strong indicator that med schools consider numbers before qualitative data.

I think a lot of med schools would love to select compassionate, motivated, friendly doctors. (Not all, some would prioritize future academic superstars.) They just don't know how, so they use what they know, numbers, for the first cut. An aside: The emphasis on admissions is a distraction from badly needed reform in how medicine is delivered. Fix the system (from school to practice) and patients and doctors will be happier and get along better.
 

lizt

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Hello,
I plan on taking the MCAT's in spring of 2007 (when I will be a junior). I am taking a kaplan class now, got a 22 on diagnostic and 29 on the first full length test. I was happy with the improvement so far, but I'm wondering whether this score is at all accurate. I've heard from some that kaplan makes the diagnostic harder and the full length tests easier so that students see an improvement. Any thoughts on this or how much students may improve from the first full length?
Thanks!
 

Brainsucker

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lizt said:
Hello,
I plan on taking the MCAT's in spring of 2007 (when I will be a junior). I am taking a kaplan class now, got a 22 on diagnostic and 29 on the first full length test. I was happy with the improvement so far, but I'm wondering whether this score is at all accurate. I've heard from some that kaplan makes the diagnostic harder and the full length tests easier so that students see an improvement. Any thoughts on this or how much students may improve from the first full length?
Thanks!
The only way to know is to take an AAMC practice test. I used a Kaplan book and found that the tests it contained were too different from the real test to be of use. Others have different experiences, but I think that using Kaplan tests is counterproductive because they differ too much from the real exam. Use the AAMC tests and you should be fine.
 

Rafa

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veddhead said:
Rafa!!! Bring out the equine!!
Good call, vedhead :thumbup:



As Law2doc would say:

whichever one is lower.
 

njbmd

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ironmanf14 said:
but at the same time, passing the usmle means nothing either if you are an ass and can't connect with patients ;)
Hey there,
Actually, you can be an as-, pass USMLE and practice medicine. Fail USMLE and you have an expensive tuition bill with no medical degree.
njbmd :)
 

mvenus929

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lizt said:
Hello,
I plan on taking the MCAT's in spring of 2007 (when I will be a junior). I am taking a kaplan class now, got a 22 on diagnostic and 29 on the first full length test. I was happy with the improvement so far, but I'm wondering whether this score is at all accurate. I've heard from some that kaplan makes the diagnostic harder and the full length tests easier so that students see an improvement. Any thoughts on this or how much students may improve from the first full length?
Thanks!
Having never taken a class, or the MCAT, I just want to let you know that they're changing everything for you. The test will be shorter and completely on the computer. I don't have the slightest clue how this will affect scoring and whatnot, sorry.
 

R.P. McMurphy

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njbmd said:
Hey there,
Actually, you can be an as-, pass USMLE and practice medicine. Fail USMLE and you have an expensive tuition bill with no medical degree.
njbmd :)
I agree. Technically, you can be the worst person in the world and practice as long as you pass. At some point, there is an MCAT score too low-that's obvious. But when choosing between people with scores of, say, 30 or 38, students with either of these scores have generally passed USMLE right? So having a 38 doesn't necessarily mean you are the better prospect for medical school, especially if you have crappy qualities.

I guess my question is, if they see two applicants with acceptable MCATS that would indicate a passing USMLE, are they STILL more concerned about the difference in "probability of passing" between these two? I was under the impression that at some point they do care what kind of doctors they send out into the profession and not just the ones who have the highest probability of passing USMLE.
 

Gabujabu

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It still might make a difference, but only at the most selective schools. How well someone does on the USMLE has a big effect on where they can get a residency (and the USMLE is correlated with MCAT), since some of the most competitive residencies average USMLE scores 90th percentile or above.

ironmanf14 said:
I agree. Technically, you can be the worst person in the world and practice as long as you pass. At some point, there is an MCAT score too low-that's obvious. But when choosing between people with scores of, say, 30 or 38, students with either of these scores have generally passed USMLE right? So having a 38 doesn't necessarily mean you are the better prospect for medical school, especially if you have crappy qualities.

I guess my question is, if they see two applicants with acceptable MCATS that would indicate a passing USMLE, are they STILL more concerned about the difference in "probability of passing" between these two? I was under the impression that at some point they do care what kind of doctors they send out into the profession and not just the ones who have the highest probability of passing USMLE.
 
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