How important is the name of your Medical School for getting into NS residencies

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dizzyorange

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How important is the name of your medical school for applying to NS residencies?

If you attended a school that is not well-known for its neurosurgery program (such as UMDNJ - NJMS for example), is that a major disadvantage towards being competitive in neurological surgery residency match?

If you were to achieve extremely high grades (say, Honors in all classes), as well as an exceptional Step 1 score, and also acquire research experience and at least one publication in the NS field, is it still possible to be competitive for the top NS residencies, despite attending a school where neuro is not a primary focus?

Thanks for any responses. I hope these questions do not seem too naive, I am starting med school in the fall and am dead-set on pursing NS, but am worried that my choice of school may force me to choose something else.

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How important is the name of your medical school for applying to NS residencies?

If you attended a school that is not well-known for its neurosurgery program (such as UMDNJ - NJMS for example), is that a major disadvantage towards being competitive in neurological surgery residency match?

If you were to achieve extremely high grades (say, Honors in all classes), as well as an exceptional Step 1 score, and also acquire research experience and at least one publication in the NS field, is it still possible to be competitive for the top NS residencies, despite attending a school where neuro is not a primary focus?

Thanks for any responses. I hope these questions do not seem too naive, I am starting med school in the fall and am dead-set on pursing NS, but am worried that my choice of school may force me to choose something else.

From what I understand, it does not matter much, except at places like BNI, Hopkins, Columbia, etc.

http://uncleharvey.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/43/

may not answer you're question, but its better than the crickets you're getting here.


If you do well in school (as you say: honors, high step 1, research, excellent away rotation evals), you should have no problem matching in neurosurgery. If you don't have an impeccable academic pedigree, however, don't count on the aforementioned academic powerhouses.
 
If you attended a school that is not well-known for its neurosurgery program (such as UMDNJ - NJMS for example), is that a major disadvantage towards being competitive in neurological surgery residency match?
UMDNJ matched something like six students into neurosurgery this year (more than any other school I think), so the answer to that question must be, "no."
 
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I would like to comment on NJMS. This year umdnj-njms matched very well in neurosurgery, esp. at "marqee" places (Duke and UCSF). The chairman of NJMS neurosurgery is a former president of the AMA and is very well connected. Also these students busted their butts and demonstrated passion and committment to the field. And no, all of them were not AOA or had ridiculous board scores. And no, they did not take time off to do a Doris Duke or other research fellowship. In fact, one guy decided on nsg at the last minute.
 
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I would like to comment on NJMS. This year umdnj-njms matched very well in neurosurgery, esp. at "marqee" places (Duke and UCSF). The chairman of NJMS neurosurgery is a former president of the AMA and is very well connected. Also these students busted their butts and demonstrated passion and committment to the field. And no, all of them were not AOA or had ridiculous board scores. And no, they did not take time off to do a Doris Duke or other research fellowship. In fact, one guy decided on nsg at the last minute.

Thanks for the info guys. My initial question was naive. I guess lesson learned: do some research before asking.
 
Dizzy - I don't think your initial question was naive - most people never have exposure to neurological surgery during medical school, unless they actively seek it out. That being said, there are some schools that are known to be neurosurgery resident factories. These places are ones we all know - UCLA, Hopkins, Harvard, etc. However, do not be discouraged by that.

(Please note use of Enter key)

I personally went to a Caribbean medical school, and decided late in my fourth year that I really wanted to be a spine surgeon. I failed miserably trying to match into ortho - which is funny as my fiancee is ortho. However, I found that by writing programs, I got a great response. I landed three "real" interviews and lots of offers for pre-residency fellowships. In the end, I opted for the pre-residency year (with much trepidation). It definitely cemented the fact that neurosurgery was for me, and I got accepted into a program the following year. Thanks to busting my butt and a lot of support from the place I was.

Nothing is impossible, and programs are a lot more accepting of people than what most residents or staff are willing to admit. Work hard, get your face in front of people, and you will probably have a shorter path to your goal than I did.

Good luck!!
 
Dizzy - I don't think your initial question was naive - most people never have exposure to neurological surgery during medical school, unless they actively seek it out. That being said, there are some schools that are known to be neurosurgery resident factories. These places are ones we all know - UCLA, Hopkins, Harvard, etc. However, do not be discouraged by that.

(Please note use of Enter key)

I personally went to a Caribbean medical school, and decided late in my fourth year that I really wanted to be a spine surgeon. I failed miserably trying to match into ortho - which is funny as my fiancee is ortho. However, I found that by writing programs, I got a great response. I landed three "real" interviews and lots of offers for pre-residency fellowships. In the end, I opted for the pre-residency year (with much trepidation). It definitely cemented the fact that neurosurgery was for me, and I got accepted into a program the following year. Thanks to busting my butt and a lot of support from the place I was.

Nothing is impossible, and programs are a lot more accepting of people than what most residents or staff are willing to admit. Work hard, get your face in front of people, and you will probably have a shorter path to your goal than I did.

Good luck!!

I love how positive of a message you convey on these boards. More of us are needed in this field and on these boards. I come across so much traditionalism and scare-tactics on these boards that simply .....is not true.

Medicine is just not as impossible as a field anymore to excel in. Great video article in the times last week about how better lifestyle fields have become the more competitive ones (Derm). Not sure if this is a good thing or not, but the truth is neurosurgery and all surgery is obtainable if you are hungry enough and have the minimum required intellect (not sure how to gage that).

Excellent story of hope VERMIAN! Congratulations on your achievement. You are on your way to becoming a "Brain Surgeon"!!! :thumbup:
 
Dizzy - I don't think your initial question was naive - most people never have exposure to neurological surgery during medical school, unless they actively seek it out. That being said, there are some schools that are known to be neurosurgery resident factories. These places are ones we all know - UCLA, Hopkins, Harvard, etc. However, do not be discouraged by that.

(Please note use of Enter key)

I personally went to a Caribbean medical school, and decided late in my fourth year that I really wanted to be a spine surgeon. I failed miserably trying to match into ortho - which is funny as my fiancee is ortho. However, I found that by writing programs, I got a great response. I landed three "real" interviews and lots of offers for pre-residency fellowships. In the end, I opted for the pre-residency year (with much trepidation). It definitely cemented the fact that neurosurgery was for me, and I got accepted into a program the following year. Thanks to busting my butt and a lot of support from the place I was.

Nothing is impossible, and programs are a lot more accepting of people than what most residents or staff are willing to admit. Work hard, get your face in front of people, and you will probably have a shorter path to your goal than I did.

Good luck!!

Hey thanks for the pep talk. I agree with the above poster that the tone of the main NS forum (uncleharvey) is sometimes foreboding and makes it seem impossible to match without multiple first-person pubs, etc... I doubt I'll be able to get any 1st author papers out but I'm still going to bust my *** off to the best of my ability.

Vermian you had a real tough road that frankly might have discouraged me enough to choose another specialty. You get serious props for sticking it out, a transition pre-residency year must have been quite anxious as you couldn't have been sure to match afterward. Good luck to you too!
 
Dizzy,

I hope you are able to get your name on an article (or two) prior to your hitting the interview trail.

However, if you do not, don't think that is completely against you. I had absolutely no publications when I got accepted. I have a couple now (and a book chapter), but that is all thanks to a great staff, who encouraged and berated me.

Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that your networking is more likely to help you achieve your goal than any amount of publication.

Neurosurgeons like to hear positive things about the resident they want to consider hiring. Papers look good for the program, but the ones you did prior to residency do not count for your residency. The ones you do when you are there will be the ones that add to the numbers your program wants to brag about - unless you were part of some groundbreaking medical advancement prior to being accepted.

Get your face out there. Get as many LORs as you can. This will accomplish three things.

One - You will get to see if you really like the field and the work it takes to get to the end of training.

Two - More to the point, it will expose you to the type of people you will have to spend that time with during training. I think that is as important. Stereotypes of people in medicine exist for a reason. Most of us try not to be that stereotype, but these people are there. The majority of the time, you will never be affected by the "bad" people. However, you need to see a few of them in action to know if you really want to be associated with them or not.

Three - Everyone knows someone in this field. If you get a letter from Dr. Joe who happens to know Dr. Jack at prestigious institution Q - you will be more highly regarded by Dr. Jack when you meet him on the interview trail. I know this first hand from one of my own letters of recommendation.

Again, do not let any of the above deter you. I LOVE what I do. I don't always love who I do it for. Two entirely different things, and that is what helps me on the rough rotations.

Good luck.
 
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