How important is the "prestige" of a residency hospital on future NON clinical opportunities?

[DragonSalad]

MS4 at top 20 school going into EM, and I feel like non-clinical business work could be a large part of my future career. If I want the option to do non-clinical work in the future after residency (think consulting, MBA, other business opportunities) how important will the brand name of the residency be?

The reason I'm asking is in EM there are great programs that are unknown outside the house of medicine (sometimes even to other specialties), e.g. Carolinas or Hennepin. On the other hand, programs such as Stanford, Hopkins etc are still good programs, but not as highly regarded inside the EM community due to a heavy consult nature, academic setting, lower amounts of trauma and autonomy.

How much would going to a place like Carolinas vs Stanford matter if in addition to clinical training, I also value non clinical opportunities down the road?

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[BoardingDoc]

MS4 at top 20 school going into EM, and I feel like non-clinical business work could be a large part of my future career. If I want the option to do non-clinical work in the future after residency (think consulting, MBA, other business opportunities) how important will the brand name of the residency be?

The reason I'm asking is in EM there are great programs that are unknown outside the house of medicine (sometimes even to other specialties), e.g. Carolinas or Hennepin. On the other hand, programs such as Stanford, Hopkins etc are still good programs, but not as highly regarded inside the EM community due to a heavy consult nature, academic setting, lower amounts of trauma and autonomy.

How much would going to a place like Carolinas vs Stanford matter if in addition to clinical training, I also value non clinical opportunities down the road?

The benefit of going to a bigger name hospital is that A: some non-medical people will recognize it and count it as a feather in your cap and B: those programs tend to attract more people like yourself who may not have an interest in clinical medicine after residency.

E.g. I interviewed at MGH when I was applying for residency. During my interview I met 3 current residents who all had plans after residency to go into some form of business or consulting and had no interest in practicing medicine. This was a massive turn off for me, but might be a strength for you given your goals, and could provide you with useful connections as you look to move into non-clinical work.

 

[DragonSalad]

Thanks, BoardingDoc. Wondering if anyone else also has any experience on this. And on another note, how much benefit is there in staying in the region you want to practice in, versus going to a nationally recognized program?

 

[DarkHorizon]

Probably little, med school pedigree would likely matter more.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thanks, BoardingDoc. Wondering if anyone else also has any experience on this. And on another note, how much benefit is there in staying in the region you want to practice in, versus going to a nationally recognized program?

I think it depends what kind of non-clinical work you're thinking of and how well-connected faculty and alumni from the programs you're considering are within that field. For pharma at least, the name of your residency definitely matters; not sure about some of the other fields you've mentioned.

 

[DragonSalad]

I think it depends what kind of non-clinical work you're thinking of and how well-connected faculty and alumni from the programs you're considering are within that field. For pharma at least, the name of your residency definitely matters; not sure about some of the other fields you've mentioned.

What type of pharma jobs are you referring to?

I think I would be a good applicant to some of the "classic big names" in EM, but I just don't know if going for brand name residencies instead would hurt me in clinical EM jobs or even in clinical training.

 

[Dave1980]

Just go to the best program fit for you based on location and education.

Choosing a program based on prestige to get into academic medicine makes some sense but choosing a program based on prestige for some future business career is bordering on insanity.

 

[DragonSalad]

Just go to the best program fit for you based on location and education.

Choosing a program based on prestige to get into academic medicine makes some sense but choosing a program based on prestige for some future business career is bordering on insanity.

Curious why you think this? I'm fairly certain I'll eventually be working in a non-clinical capacity in some way after residency.

 

[Dave1980]

Curious why you think this? I'm fairly certain I'll eventually be working in a non-clinical capacity in some way after residency.

Unless you have significant business experience/contacts already you will almost certainly make your living doing medicine. Focus on getting a good education and living somewhere you want to be.

 

[DragonSalad]

I am somewhat non-traditional, yes. I also have some physician contacts in the business world, albeit not many, though seeing BoardingDoc's reply above made me realize I would potentially make more in some of those "brand" residencies.

Don't care much about location honestly, but good education is definitely a priority. It looks like there are programs like Hopkins, Mayo, both HAEMR programs, which could offer both training and future opportunities for a non-clinical career.

 

[Dave1980]

I am somewhat non-traditional, yes. I also have some physician contacts in the business world, albeit not many, though seeing BoardingDoc's reply above made me realize I would potentially make more in some of those "brand" residencies.

Don't care much about location honestly, but good education is definitely a priority. It looks like there are programs like Hopkins, Mayo, both HAEMR programs, which could offer both training and future opportunities for a non-clinical career.

Don't sacrifice good EM training for a name brand. Tons of docs want to get out of the rat race and do "non-clinical" stuff but in the end it almost never happens.

 

[DragonSalad]

Don't sacrifice good EM training for a name brand. Tons of docs want to get out of the rat race and do "non-clinical" stuff but in the end it almost never happens.

You don't think Hopkins/Mayo/HAEMR programs training is completely solid?

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

You don't think Hopkins/Mayo/HAEMR programs training is completely solid?

IMO 90% of EM programs will make you a capable EM doc. If you think you want to work county for the rest of your life go county. If you want to work academic, go academic. Personally, knowing HAEMR, LAC, Cook, and Hopkins residents I think any substantive difference in training is probably overblown. If you have a developed interest in some tangentially related thing probably you'd have more extra-curricular resources at the "name brand" that you wouldn't at some of the others. Alternatively, the name brand places tend to be 4 years compared to 3. If you have the opportunity, interview at both kinds of places. See where your personality fits.

 

[DragonSalad]

IMO 90% of EM programs will make you a capable EM doc. If you think you want to work county for the rest of your life go county. If you want to work academic, go academic. Personally, knowing HAEMR, LAC, Cook, and Hopkins residents I think any substantive difference in training is probably overblown. If you have a developed interest in some tangentially related thing probably you'd have more extra-curricular resources at the "name brand" that you wouldn't at some of the others. Alternatively, the name brand places tend to be 4 years compared to 3. If you have the opportunity, interview at both kinds of places. See where your personality fits.

By name brand you mean Cook/Cincinnati type name in EM or lay prestige name brand?

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

By name brand you mean Cook/Cincinnati type name in EM or lay prestige name brand?

Lay prestige. Highland/Denver/Cinci are great in the EM community but the docs you typically see on national television are from a "big name" (specifically meaning the name) spot. Only because the name sells, unlikely anything to do with quality of doc (though, alternatively, it is possible that doc went to Hopkins or a Harvard hospital because it has the global health/infectious disease/research dollars to fund their interests). I don't know how things work in business.

 

[GoSpursGo]

What type of pharma jobs are you referring to?

I think I would be a good applicant to some of the "classic big names" in EM, but I just don't know if going for brand name residencies instead would hurt me in clinical EM jobs or even in clinical training.

Meaning running clinical trials of new drugs, etc, as a study physician. Mind you, there are plenty of opportunities within pharma OUTSIDE of the actual studies, sometimes possible to work with marketing and other parts of the company, but that's how a lot of physicians come in.

Not sure how much of a thing that is for EM-trained physicians, but that's what I'm familiar with at least.

 

[DragonSalad]

Interesting, any one have any other thoughts?