woolsocks90

5+ Year Member
Feb 17, 2015
9
22
Status
Pre-Medical
Curious to hear how osteopathic schools are handling away rotations considering many don't have home hospitals and are more community based.
-Are they discouraging them completely?
-Limiting to a certain number or area?
-Letting you do as many as you get?
 

Internist_Sandman

2+ Year Member
Dec 10, 2016
13
7
Status
Medical Student
Only allowed out-of-state if you want a specialty that is not available at our home program or affiliate program. If you're IM/Peds/EM/OB/Surgery/some others, then no dice.
 
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kthals123

2+ Year Member
Oct 26, 2016
71
134
In order to make up for the fact that so many of us won't be at core sites, or have third year core sites that don't take full responsibility for fourth years or host them at all, they had us designate a "home base." It was made out to us that we would be able to schedule however many aways necessary to fill our schedule if we are having a hard time finding rotations in our home base (such as I have), but now they've backpedaled and I've been told by my coordinator that she really doubts I'll get any more approved than the three that our school requires us to do. Even though two of my aways are at the same exact place back-to-back (the first is an audition and the second is just an elective), I was told that still counts as two lol.
 

full_rocker

2+ Year Member
Jan 30, 2017
58
59
We were advised to "Set up an away where you want to do residency and then move to the state for the year and contact local physicians to set up the rest of your 4th year rotations. That will show PDs in that area that you are committed to not traveling during COVID and further show that you are committed to living in that area for residency."

Fun times fam.
 

cookiegrub

2+ Year Member
Oct 8, 2016
162
84
Status
Medical Student
We were advised to "Set up an away where you want to do residency and then move to the state for the year and contact local physicians to set up the rest of your 4th year rotations. That will show PDs in that area that you are committed to not traveling during COVID and further show that you are committed to living in that area for residency."

Fun times fam.
wow...talk about pigeon holing yourself in one location too soon, giving a clear signal that you are inflexible to other locations
 
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AnatomyGrey12

2+ Year Member
Sep 8, 2015
10,604
24,099
Midwest
Status
Medical Student
Heavily limited. You need school approval to leave the state, and if we have a home program in your speciality (and we have a lot of home programs) then you don't get approved.
 

Scrubs101

2+ Year Member
Nov 25, 2015
1,747
3,209
Status
Medical Student
School approval needed to go OOS or even in state but out of schools hospital system, school stated they will give approval on a case by case basis prioritizing students unable to attain auditions within our system. Military gets an exception as well.

overall it’s in system > in state > OOS, i know a lot of people have just given up on auditions after not being able to grab an in system audition/facing a lot of road blocks attempting to receive out of system auditions

edit: i will add my school has been very supportive of these students struggling to get rotations in their specialty of choice, even making personal phone calls and emails on their behalf. very proud of the advocacy some admin at my school are showing
 

goneriding

2+ Year Member
Dec 8, 2015
40
70
Status
Medical Student
Don't have a home hospital, or home program and I am responsible for scheduling my entire 4th year. My school is essentially unable to provide me any rotation. I live in an area where all the major hospitals are controlled by big MD medical schools and they aren't accepting students due to covid. Further, the usual non-residency program, preceptor based rotations are being cancelled as the hospital systems that the preceptor's work for are not allowing students due to covid. I've heard that our 3rd year students are having their core rotations cancelled as well.

I had scheduled a bunch of auditions back in January before this all started (most out of state). Now I'm stuck with the decision of cancelling my OOS auditions (and ruining my chances of matching) so that I can be in accordance with CORD policy, or doing online rotations-- as it is highly unlikely that I can find a replacement rotation (in any specialty) this Summer/Fall.

I'm choosing to continue to do my rotations as scheduled, as I think doing online BS will not prepare me to be a doctor in a year. I will also likely fail to match if I do not do auditions (surgical subspecialty) as I have no program. My school will not be stopping me from traveling OOS, but has cautioned me that "this doesn't look good."
 

Neopolymath

ASA Member
5+ Year Member
Mar 5, 2014
1,350
3,804
Status
Medical Student
This really exposes DO schools. The lack of any 4th year infrastructure at most DO schools is a known problem but does not really get highlighted. My school typically "helps" schedule poor opportunities for a few required rotations 4th year and then expects audition season to take up the slack for the rest of the calendar year. Then students must essentially set up rotations themselves for all NON-audition rotations. They also have the typical old DO idea that everyone should always do like 4 audition rotations no matter what specialty. This is partially due to AOA program style and partially because it makes them have to help even less than before. Given that auditions are straight DOA and few people have programs in non FM/IM programs affiliated with their DO school this causes a huge issue here. Basically the school wants everyone to schedule their entire fourth year but the ability to schedule 1/3 of it via aways is completely gone and regular hustled up hospital rotations aren't happening either. It's pretty crazy that I could either not do in person rotations most of the year versus MD students who have been back a month or two by now. I guess the alternative is to call random FM docs in the middle of nowhere and do the rest of rotations until graduation in FM and truly understand the regret involved in going to my school.
 

getfat

5+ Year Member
Apr 20, 2014
1,562
1,891
Status
Medical Student
-Are they discouraging them completely?
Nope. Just asking for a heads up when you get something.
-Limiting to a certain number or area?
This is a grey area. Nobody has explicitly restricting any regions. Personally, it has been the hospitals that restrict students. Every coordinator has asks where i live at the moment before placing an application.
-Letting you do as many as you get?
Our school is begging us to do as many aways as possible.
 
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getfat

5+ Year Member
Apr 20, 2014
1,562
1,891
Status
Medical Student
This really exposes DO schools. The lack of any 4th year infrastructure at most DO schools is a known problem but does not really get highlighted. My school typically "helps" schedule poor opportunities for a few required rotations 4th year and then expects audition season to take up the slack for the rest of the calendar year. Then students must essentially set up rotations themselves for all NON-audition rotations. They also have the typical old DO idea that everyone should always do like 4 audition rotations no matter what specialty. This is partially due to AOA program style and partially because it makes them have to help even less than before. Given that auditions are straight DOA and few people have programs in non FM/IM programs affiliated with their DO school this causes a huge issue here. Basically the school wants everyone to schedule their entire fourth year but the ability to schedule 1/3 of it via aways is completely gone and regular hustled up hospital rotations aren't happening either. It's pretty crazy that I could either not do in person rotations most of the year versus MD students who have been back a month or two by now. I guess the alternative is to call random FM docs in the middle of nowhere and do the rest of rotations until graduation in FM and truly understand the regret involved in going to my school.
In any other year this style of "schedule your own 4th year" is great. If you are on top of your stuff and put in your applications in march, you can have a pretty sweet application to succeed.

The issue now is the hospitals don't have any requirement to train us. The schools do. So now schools with this 4th year program don't know what to do.

We fit the exact definition of "orphan students" listed in the COVID-19 recommendations. So i don't see any problem in students like us trying to pick up as many rotations as possible.
 

BorntobeDO?

5+ Year Member
Nov 13, 2013
3,205
4,423
Status
Medical Student
Don't have a home hospital, or home program and I am responsible for scheduling my entire 4th year. My school is essentially unable to provide me any rotation. I live in an area where all the major hospitals are controlled by big MD medical schools and they aren't accepting students due to covid. Further, the usual non-residency program, preceptor based rotations are being cancelled as the hospital systems that the preceptor's work for are not allowing students due to covid. I've heard that our 3rd year students are having their core rotations cancelled as well.

I had scheduled a bunch of auditions back in January before this all started (most out of state). Now I'm stuck with the decision of cancelling my OOS auditions (and ruining my chances of matching) so that I can be in accordance with CORD policy, or doing online rotations-- as it is highly unlikely that I can find a replacement rotation (in any specialty) this Summer/Fall.

I'm choosing to continue to do my rotations as scheduled, as I think doing online BS will not prepare me to be a doctor in a year. I will also likely fail to match if I do not do auditions (surgical subspecialty) as I have no program. My school will not be stopping me from traveling OOS, but has cautioned me that "this doesn't look good."
Do what you have to for the residency you want. 4th year is the time to be assertive about going for what you want. I get that COVID is bad and all that, but you only get so many shots at getting what you want, so for me I totally agree with your decision to go for it.
 
Last edited:
Jun 8, 2020
12
11
Status
Medical Student
Just curious, has anyone else found themselves in the tough situation of having a home program with a residency in the specialty you're interested in, but also that same department may not be able to accommodate everyone who wants to rotate/audition there this upcoming Fall?

I'm not sure what to do, because a lot of VSAS apps now require a statement saying that you don't have this opportunity to do this rotation at your own school or have a home program with that residency in order to be accepted. So right now I am currently sitting without any aways, as some were cancelled, and a home program that cannot guarantee a clinical rotation spot this cycle.
 

cookiegrub

2+ Year Member
Oct 8, 2016
162
84
Status
Medical Student
Just curious, has anyone else found themselves in the tough situation of having a home program with a residency in the specialty you're interested in, but also that same department may not be able to accommodate everyone who wants to rotate/audition there this upcoming Fall?

I'm not sure what to do, because a lot of VSAS apps now require a statement saying that you don't have this opportunity to do this rotation at your own school or have a home program with that residency in order to be accepted. So right now I am currently sitting without any aways, as some were cancelled, and a home program that cannot guarantee a clinical rotation spot this cycle.
I recommend reaching out to the program coordinators and explaining your situation. If they don't have a student rotating that month, I don't see how you would be inflicting any problems for an orphan medical student. That being said, if your home department opens up a slot, you need to let the away know in the event a student who has 0% chance of exposure can go through that process. This of course will depend on how late your home program will warn you about an opening and I believe that your site coordinator should be the main go-to to get that paperwork in order. Unlike aways, home institutes usually get their schedule finalized ahead of time so if no changes are being debated, then most likely all the other students ahead of you will not change their mind last minute and most likely you won't obtain that rotation this year in time for it to be useful for the cycle. I know someone from my school who applied for an away despite having multiple residency spots for it at our home institute. She has not changed her mind about it and her away is allowing that so I gather absolutes aren't uniformly distributed. If you worry about how to explain this despite a home residency then my guess is that it depends on how you explain it and it seems to me your explanation is valid.
 
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Scrubs101

2+ Year Member
Nov 25, 2015
1,747
3,209
Status
Medical Student
Just curious, has anyone else found themselves in the tough situation of having a home program with a residency in the specialty you're interested in, but also that same department may not be able to accommodate everyone who wants to rotate/audition there this upcoming Fall?

I'm not sure what to do, because a lot of VSAS apps now require a statement saying that you don't have this opportunity to do this rotation at your own school or have a home program with that residency in order to be accepted. So right now I am currently sitting without any aways, as some were canceled, and a home program that cannot guarantee a clinical rotation spot this cycle.
I have friends that found themselves in this situation. Our school was able to vouch for them and they were able to obtain an away at an in-state but out of system program. I would recommend the same as the poster above, also make sure you have some admin either from your home program or your school stating in writing they cannot take you so you have proof.
 
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