How long/till what age are you planning to practice dentistry?

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Incis0r

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Pre-dent here. I was just wondering how long the typical career is in dentistry. It seems that dentists spend a good 25%+ of their lives before they even get into the career. I personally want to practice for as long as I can...would 40-45 years be too much, or could I pull that off? How long do you hope to practice for before retiring?

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How about 10-15 years?

Then again when I reach that point, I'm sure I'd still want to practice dentistry, but when I want to, not because I have to just to pay some bill.

So maybe like 2 days a week or something by the time I am 35-40.
 
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40-45 years? are you kidding me? Dentistry is HARD work, 5x harder if you are a practice owner. Here's an annoying thing I have to deal with: patient's don't want to feel any pain during the procedure, but then they complain if the anesthesia lasts for too long. What do you do then?

Also, why do patients expect me to do a filling in 5 minutes, but spend an hour on a cleaning???? I'm a dentist- I can clean most patients teeth in 5 minutes easy unless its on someone who has periodontal disease and I'm doing a deep cleaning.

I wonder if all dentists that you guys shadowed every brought these things up.
 
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40-45 years? are you kidding me? Dentistry is HARD work, 5x harder if you are a practice owner. Here's an annoying thing I have to deal with: patient's don't want to feel any pain during the procedure, but then they complain if the anesthesia lasts for too long. What do you do then?

Also, why do patients expect me to do a filling in 5 minutes, but spend an hour on a cleaning???? I'm a dentist- I can clean most patients teeth in 5 minutes easy unless its on someone who has periodontal disease and I'm doing a deep cleaning.

I wonder if all dentists that you guys shadowed every brought these things up.

Fair enough.
 
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How about 10-15 years?

Then again when I reach that point, I'm sure I'd still want to practice dentistry, but when I want to, not because I have to just to pay some bill.

So maybe like 2 days a week or something by the time I am 35-40.

I completely agree with your point about going to practice dentistry because you want to and not to pay the bill.
 
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Very interesting- Do you think you'll have saved enough for retirement by then? Even if you saved $100K a year for 15 years at 8% interest, that leaves you with $1.53M inflation-adjusted dollars in 15 years. That's a living standard of about 38k a year for 40 years of retirement. Idk...maybe it's just me, but I want to live frugally, but also have close to $2M in retirement accounts just in case my family/loved ones/I god forbid have a medical disaster/financial issue, and also to enjoy life a bit in the later years.

I completely agree with your point about going to practice dentistry because you want to and not to pay the bill. I really hope that I reach that day soon....well...let me get into dental school first...lol.
Lol I guess I didn't account for inflation but that's why I said maybe just work 2 days a week or something after because if I have around 2 mil saved up by the time I am 35-40, for the next 10 years I could work just to cover my living expenses while leaving my 2 mil untouched to grow. Then fully retire at like 50! Then it could become like 100k/yr for 30 years of retirement.

But yes, let us get into dental school first lol!
 
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^ Solid plan! Are you an undergrad? what year?
 
Nice!!!
 
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How much exactly are you planning to earn that you'd have 2 million saved up by the time you're 35-40? If you're a sophomore now, you're what, like 19 or 20? You won't start dental school until you're about 21 or 22, and that's if you get in the first time around. So finish school around 25 or 26. By 35-40 you've been working 10-15 years. You've had to pay student loans and support yourself and your family during this time. The only way you're putting away 2 million in 15 years is if you're putting about $134k into savings every year. Let's say you live modestly and use about $50k per year on living expenses. Let's say you go to a state school and your student loan payments wind up being around $200k. To pay that off in ten years you're putting down at least $20k per year towards it, but actually more because interest. So let's just say $25k. So your loan payments, living expenses, and savings add up to $209k a year. Let's assume that between federal and state taxes, your tax rate is about 35%. You'd have to be earning $322k per year that entire time in order to be able to pay back your student loan, pay for your own living expenses, and save up that much money. Which quite frankly isn't feasible the first 5-7 years out of school at all, and even then, you'd have to have a moderately successful practice to be earning that much per year, I would think. Unless you're living and working in Alaska or something.
 
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How much exactly are you planning to earn that you'd have 2 million saved up by the time you're 35-40? If you're a sophomore now, you're what, like 19 or 20? You won't start dental school until you're about 21 or 22, and that's if you get in the first time around. So finish school around 25 or 26. By 35-40 you've been working 10-15 years. You've had to pay student loans and support yourself and your family during this time. The only way you're putting away 2 million in 15 years is if you're putting about $134k into savings every year. Let's say you live modestly and use about $50k per year on living expenses. Let's say you go to a state school and your student loan payments wind up being around $200k. To pay that off in ten years you're putting down at least $20k per year towards it, but actually more because interest. So let's just say $25k. So your loan payments, living expenses, and savings add up to $209k a year. Let's assume that between federal and state taxes, your tax rate is about 35%. You'd have to be earning $322k per year that entire time in order to be able to pay back your student loan, pay for your own living expenses, and save up that much money. Which quite frankly isn't feasible the first 5-7 years out of school at all, and even then, you'd have to have a moderately successful practice to be earning that much per year, I would think. Unless you're living and working in Alaska or something.
I think I can accomplish this because I won't have any student debt and don't plan on having kids until I am financially settled like until my early-mid 30's. If I work for a chain or something for 1-2 years out of dental school and pick a good location, I don't see why I alone can't make around 175k-200k average for those first 2 years. Not to mention a wife's income(hopefully a rich wife). During that time I can look into a start-up or buying a practice and when I see many dentists only working 4 days a week, making 300k+ as general dentists, I say why can't I. Now I don't think it's just magic and it will fall into my laps, but if I work hard to set up a successful office, I think it can definitely be done. Manage the overhead and track every penny to cut costs, learn new skills like implants and such for higher profit cases, and do my best to keep my employees/patients happy. I think I have what it takes to do really well in dentistry and while most people I know are going to be averaging around 100-200k a year as a dentist for their career, that doesn't mean everyone will. So many people say you're crazy to be expecting to make more than 100k your first year, that reaching 200k is only possible like 15 years into your career, etc... but that's crap because there are dentists out there, as rare as it may be, who are doing much better than the "average"
 
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I would like to practice for ~45-50 years. I've shadowed dentists who were in this range & our personalities, values, & world view were very similar. Having said that I also feel that I have a different perspective than most of my classmates.

There are lots of different personality types in dentistry; make dentistry fit into your vision of a great life & treat your patients well.
 
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40-45 years? are you kidding me? Dentistry is HARD work, 5x harder if you are a practice owner. Here's an annoying thing I have to deal with: patient's don't want to feel any pain during the procedure, but then they complain if the anesthesia lasts for too long. What do you do then?

Also, why do patients expect me to do a filling in 5 minutes, but spend an hour on a cleaning???? I'm a dentist- I can clean most patients teeth in 5 minutes easy unless its on someone who has periodontal disease and I'm doing a deep cleaning.

I wonder if all dentists that you guys shadowed every brought these things up.

Yikes. How is it that very experienced professionals like hygienists spend much more time doing a prophy yet you're able to complete it in five minutes? I don't see how you can be thorough or efficacious spending so little time.
 
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@Incis0r so many scenarios going through my head. one interesting one in particular if i stay with the army...47? do my 20 years, leave, get a pension and maybe teach ?

but to answer your question...

realistically i could see someone practicing until mid-late 60s easily. heck my dentist is almost 70
 
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Yikes. How is it that very experienced professionals like hygienists spend much more time doing a prophy yet you're able to complete it in five minutes? I don't see how you can be thorough or efficacious spending so little time.

it's really not hard to do once you get into the flow of it. but the idea is you hire hygienists to do the cleanings (most/or all) so you can spend more chair time doing more profitable procedures.
 
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Yikes. How is it that very experienced professionals like hygienists spend much more time doing a prophy yet you're able to complete it in five minutes? I don't see how you can be thorough or efficacious spending so little time.

let me preface this by saying 5 min does not include the exam, oral hygiene instruction. Just the prophy.

I'm talking about a patient that comes in every 6 months for recall, no periodontal disease, mild to moderate gingivitis, at most with some calculus on the lower anterior. I can use my ultrasonic scaler to get that off FAST, and anything else around the rest of the mouth. Next, floss the teeth, and polish up with a prophy angle. I use my 3.5x loupes with light so I can see pretty much anything, so you tell me how does that take anymore than 5 minutes at most?
 
it's really not hard to do once you get into the flow of it. but the idea is you hire hygienists to do the cleanings (most/or all) so you can spend more chair time doing more profitable procedures.

I'm not speaking as someone who has never done prophylaxis treatments before. The only reason I brought up hygienists is because they do prophecies day-in-day-out and I've never meet a good one who performs a standard prophy in five minutes or less - my statement really had nothing to do with practice management or strategy. I could be wrong but I highly suspect that by spending only five minutes they're not meeting the standard of care, are leaving behind plaque or simply not detecting it, and that will worsen their patient's periodontal health with time.

EDIT: Do what works for you - I'm impressed but at the same time suspicious. Sorry for the derail OP.
 
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30-40 years. I think around 30 years is national average. I would say that ortho has the potential to practice the longest.
 
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I'm not speaking as someone who has never done prophylaxis treatments before. The only reason I brought up hygienists is because they do prophecies day-in-day-out and I've never meet a good one who performs a standard prophy in five minutes or less - my statement really had nothing to do with practice management or strategy. I could be wrong but I highly suspect that by spending only five minutes they're not meeting the standard of care, are leaving behind plaque or simply not detecting it, and that will worsen their patient's periodontal health with time.

EDIT: Do what works for you - I'm impressed but at the same time suspicious. Sorry for the derail OP.

How long do you think it takes a dentist to do a prophy?

And

How long do you think the following procedures take?
Anterior Endo
Molar Endo
Lower molar crown prep
Posterior Class 2 restoration
Anterior Class 3 restoration
Surgical Ext on a molar on an adult patient
 
i don't know even at my school we're told that it doesn't take more than 5 minutes. i'd be willing to trust a dentist over a hygienist doing my cleanings though, personally.
 
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I don't have a set number of years, just financial goals.
I'll be 26 at graduation. I'll already be married by then (getting hitched next summer to a hygienist! ;)). I know I want to own my practice within 2 years of graduating. Hopefully 6 months-1 year full time associate, part time the next 6 months while working at my start-up, or quit altogether if I purchase a practice. Then I want to work 32-40 hours/week until I am debt free. Hopefully by 35-37. Then I will cut down my work week to 3 days and add an associate to cover the other two. Once I hit another financial goal (to be determined later), I will cut back to 2 days a week until I fully retire (by 60 or so). I originally planned on acquiring another practice once I cut back to 2 days a week, but it's hard to say if that will pan out or not. Let's just say I wouldn't mind owning multiple practices with associates to cover my off days and rake in some of their production.
 
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We're just throwing some numbers around. I personally don't expect to near the 2M mark until 50 to mid 50s. If I near it before then, hurray!

I'm thinking of doing an AEGD, then taking a job at a CHC with NHSC to tackle my loans while I save about 50% of my post-tax income (estimating it to be 100K) for a practice downpayment and working capital. Live on 30K a year and max out the tax-free retirement accounts at about 20K a year (Right now 18k max but by then it'll be 20K max due to inflation).

Once I have saved about 200k in my practice account, I throw 80Kish in downpayment, and 80Kish in working capital and I buy a small starter practice (so very low bank loans...no more than 300K-350K). Build it up from there. You see where I'm going with this?

The one rule I will always follow (Even if/when practice takes off and is netting 200k a year) will be to live below my means. I don't think that living below means is the same as living uncomfortably. You can get a decent sized house with a good mortgage below 1.5K-2K/month depending on where you want to live. I personally am not about that NYC life at all. To me, an ideal living condition is in a semi rural setting, near beautiful nature, but with a decent (no more than 30mins drive) to a good town/city.

Pay the mortgage/practiceloan/student loan off and continue to vent 40-50% of post-tax income towards retirement.

There are 2 ways to build wealth, that I can see:
1) Have a big income (200K pre-tax or above to me).
2) Minimize spending, but have a decent income (100-199K pretax).

I'm going to stick with #2 for life, and hopefully expand into #1 in my peak years. Does that make sense? Feel free to critique my approach- that's why I shared it!!!

Its good to be prepared but it seems like you've made a lot of plans a long way out. I would keep a rough idea of what you'd like to do in your future but like I said you're a sophomore in college planning his dental school loan repayments. You will learn a lot on your journey through d school so there's no point planning your life now, take it one step at a time.
 
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How long do you think it takes a dentist to do a prophy?

And

How long do you think the following procedures take?
Anterior Endo
Molar Endo
Lower molar crown prep
Posterior Class 2 restoration
Anterior Class 3 restoration
Surgical Ext on a molar on an adult patient
Its senseless trying to argue with predents they probably have no idea what you're talking about. They think they know everything because they read it online, you're the dentist though. They'll figure it out on their own assuming they can even get in
 
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How about 10-15 years?

Then again when I reach that point, I'm sure I'd still want to practice dentistry, but when I want to, not because I have to just to pay some bill.

So maybe like 2 days a week or something by the time I am 35-40.

Lol I guess I didn't account for inflation but that's why I said maybe just work 2 days a week or something after because if I have around 2 mil saved up by the time I am 35-40, for the next 10 years I could work just to cover my living expenses while leaving my 2 mil untouched to grow. Then fully retire at like 50! Then it could become like 100k/yr for 30 years of retirement.

Good luck with that.



let me preface this by saying 5 min does not include the exam, oral hygiene instruction. Just the prophy.

I'm talking about a patient that comes in every 6 months for recall, no periodontal disease, mild to moderate gingivitis, at most with some calculus on the lower anterior. I can use my ultrasonic scaler to get that off FAST, and anything else around the rest of the mouth. Next, floss the teeth, and polish up with a prophy angle. I use my 3.5x loupes with light so I can see pretty much anything, so you tell me how does that take anymore than 5 minutes at most?

I personally hate doing prophies.

When I have to do them (hygiene has to leave early, or calls in sick, or new patient REALLY wants a cleaning that day), I have an assistant to suction, and polish, and I also have a hard time spending more than a few minutes. With that said, all of my hygienists do a MUCH more thorough job than me, and (this is the important part), I think that doing very quick prophies is very detrimental to building a practice, as I have gotten MANY new patients who when asked why they left the practice they were at, answered "they only took 10 minutes cleaning my teeth and I didn't think they did a good job". YMMV.;)
 
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That's bc the public doesn't know how easy it is to clean teeth, but just like anything else, if you're taking longer they think it must be a better job.

Agree that doing longer prophy is a practice builder, but i can do a hygeine worthy prophy really fast
 
IDK, the only way I can see a prophy taking 5 minutes is if you literally just polish. I don't think that many people out there come in without any calculus deposits. And yeah, the Cavitron is quick for taking those off, but you still have to be thorough about it and make sure you got the whole calculus deposit. Otherwise, what's the point of even doing it? I could see like 15 minutes for it, but I can't see 5 minutes to do a thorough job of it.
 
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I suppose you're right. I just have a ton of free time in undergrad. right now so I can't help it that my mind just wanders off towards these thoughts. Anyway, thank you for your contribution! P.S.- How'd you know what year I am in college?
I know everything I'm a dental student
 
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IDK, the only way I can see a prophy taking 5 minutes is if you literally just polish. I don't think that many people out there come in without any calculus deposits. And yeah, the Cavitron is quick for taking those off, but you still have to be thorough about it and make sure you got the whole calculus deposit. Otherwise, what's the point of even doing it? I could see like 15 minutes for it, but I can't see 5 minutes to do a thorough job of it.

B/c you're a dental student.
B/c you still haven't been able to figure out if you completely removed all decay from a tooth
B/c you still can't prep a tooth using indirect vision
B/c you are accustomed to that crappy cavitron nyu has
B/c you still use slow speed.
I could keep going.

k. that was harsh. I forgot I also thought I knew everything when I was in dental school too.
 
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nm
 
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B/c you're a dental student.
B/c you still haven't been able to figure out if you completely removed all decay from a tooth
B/c you still can't prep a tooth using indirect vision
B/c you are accustomed to that crappy cavitron nyu has
B/c you still use slow speed.
I could keep going.

k. that was harsh. I forgot I also thought I knew everything when I was in dental school too.

I'm pretty sure the only time I ever use a slow speed is when I'm polishing my provisionals for CR1. :rofl:

Maybe don't assume that I'm completely incompetent just because I'm still in school. I get it, I don't know everything, but like, chill out bro. Some of us went into dental school with a background of working in the dental field, you know.
 
Well then if you want to bring up a point of contention, why don't you disclose information to make you more credible ? I only speak for myself, but at least I've told you guys my background.
 
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Good luck with that.
I understand you are a dentist so your opinions carry more weight than mine but what is so unrealistic about what I said? If you have no student loans, don't have kids, leave cheap, have a wife that earns too, I think one can definitely save 2 mil in 10-12 years.
 
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True...if you each save $100K a year...and if you have a job that pays you $130-140K after tax for each of those 10 years...then yep, I suppose you could.
As a dentist, I see no reason why I can't earn an average of at least 250k my first 10 years. Plus whatever my wife would make.... 12k/month for 10 years w/ 6% return is around 2 mil.

Highly optimistic but nothing unrealistic about it IMO.

Have a wife who's a doctor or something and have a combined income of 500k and we could save like 250k/yr and still live rather well.

Now time to find a dentist/doctor spouse... too bad all the good looking chicks are in nursing (jk of course) I'm actually surprised by the amount of good looking women in the dental field.
 
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You're missing one big thing...what if your wife wants babies and a big 1 million dollar house and splurges every last penny?
I shall not marry such women. If she becomes one like that, I shall hand her the papers right away.
 
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My friend, in a divorce, both parties are entitled to a 50-50 asset split. Prenups won't work since you won't be bringing in significant assets to the marriage. There goes your nest egg.
Only half of it ;)

But I don't wish that on anyone, it's like divorces are just normal now... no thank you
 
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Lol :D. No but actually, if you can find someone who holds fast to your values of saving, not living $1,000,000 beyond the means, and enjoying life without "keeping up with the Jones," and who works with you as a team for your combined financial security so that you can enjoy your 40s and 50s to your heart's content, then I'd consider you to be an extremely lucky man.
Lol that's true, I probably have a better chance to win the lottery.
 
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Now there's a high yield investment....low risk too....hmm...
You know what we should do? let's form a corporation, purchase like 20K lottery tickets through it (at $2 each), win a jackpot of $10M, and split it 50-50.
 
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You're missing one big thing...what if your wife wants babies and a big 1 million dollar house and splurges every last penny?

lets not assume that this is a common desire in all wives. im a female about to attend dental school as well, and my boyfriend is the one who is always talking about his future audi r8, or (every other expensive car) that he wants. not me! :laugh:
 
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It's a desire in some. :laugh:

Except the reason I'm not going to be saving up that much is because I have severe wanderlust and I'll be taking like 3 exotic trips per year. I WILL see the whole world before I die, darn it!
 
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