How many close friends do you have in med school?

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I think derm is sort of a special case. From what I gather, it's basically a necessity to "know someone" in order to match into derm nowadays. That said, even in the lofty world of derm, the brute force route is still possible, albeit quite improbable. In other words, there is a combination of stats achievable through pure effort/aptitude that essentially guarantees you a spot even if you did zero networking (i.e. no one is going to turn down a 270+ step 1, #1 class rank, and pubs regardless of their absence of networking)...of course, this limit is beyond the capacity of 99% of medical students, which brings us back to the original point that yes, knowing someone is basically a necessity for matching derm nowadays...

But for most specialties, I still stand by my point that you can score an excellent match with no networking if you're the type that simply prefers to go it alone.

Actually, this is false. It's true that there are step 1 scores at a certain level which will basically guarantee you interviews at top programs in competitive specialties. The scores get you in the door. What keeps you there is whether the programs like you/think you fit with them. These people want to know "am I going to want to murder this person after spending 100 hours/week with them?" "Is this person going to be a team player?" "What makes them different from the other 20+ applicants with 260+ Step 1 scores?" These are questions that are not answered by stats alone; personality plays a big role here.

Also, you seem to be forgetting that a lot of M3-M4 is subjective. Study all damn day if you want to, if your attending hates your presentations or you annoy the residents by trying to always show how smart you are or patients just don't like you, there goes your honors. Try getting to the top of the class without great attending evals. How much info you crammed into your head isn't going to matter.

As someone who hasn't even started medical school yet, you really should work on displaying some humility. Telling people who've been through it that you know better is exactly the kind of stuff that is going to get you ****ty evaluations.

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Sure, you could spend your time befriending all the high-achievers in your class on the off chance that one of them will one day be in a position to help you (maybe)...but the better use of your time is certainly to do extra studying to achieve in objective, quantifiable ways such as class rank and board scores. Those matter a hell of a lot more in the end.

@Foot Fetish, you've asked this forum a lot of questions. (I checked. Every thread you've started has ended with a question mark.) And each and every time people have generously and kindly responded. What do you think is going on? Isn't that being friendly? Now imagine that you have questions nobody but the people who really know you could answer. What are you going to do then? And this goes way beyond which attending likes what or how to present a case. What about questions like... I bombed Step 1; am I still worth something? My wife left me; will anyone ever love me again? My dad died; was he proud of me? I'm feeling lonely; will you stop by and say hello?

Respectfully, most people are getting it wrong in this thread. You should never treat people as instruments to some other goal. Never. That's awful and often where people stumble when it comes to "networking." You treat people as people and let your authenticity flow. 80% of the time--if you fake who you are--you'll either come across as odd or a jerk or kinda imemorable and 100% of the time it will be an exhausting spectacle on your part. Why? Because it's a kind of manipulation. And in the process of manipulating others, you close yourself off from meaningful connection. If who you are is somebody that grinds through a million Anki cards and nevermind others--godspeed. But is that somebody who you are happy being? Is that somebody that others are happy being around? Maybe. I'm in no position to judge.

There are certainly lots of ways through life. You'll find what works for you, or you'll be miserable. Maybe my version of a fulfilling life is very different from yours. That's okay and nobody should tell you otherwise. But. Lots of residents, attendings, and MS4s in this thread are indeed telling you otherwise. Maybe they have perspective that you don't have yet. (And yes, I actually laughed a little reading you tell actual doctors about how referrals work. You frankly have zero clue as a MS0. Generally speaking: available, affable, and able--in that order.)

That doesn't mean you shouldn't study hard or devote yourself to your vocation--everybody should--but, without others in your life, you're setting yourself up for a lot loneliness and misery. Just look at the General Residency forum at how many "lonely" or "divorced" threads there are. Lots of lonely people in the world, even the "successful" doctors. Meaningful connection is what matters in the end. If you were going to die tomorrow, what do you wish you had gotten out of life?

I know all of this sounds very woo woo. But it comes from personal experience. It's no secret that I was in a car accident with my partner. We both almost died. I also got a 252 on Step 1 and honoured every rotation thus far with publications yadda yadda yadda. In the end, when it really mattered, I'd take my friends and family over anything else. When I thought I was going to die, do you really think I also thought about my Step 1 score? Or what kind of residency I might get? No. I wished I had hugged my mom the last time I visited or called my best friend or that my partner was still alive. And when they all of them showed up at the bedside to say they loved me... Well. That was the best feeling I've ever felt in my entire life--certainly better than getting my Step 1 result or whatever.

Anyways. You'll probably be an outrageously successful medical student. I'm just worried that you'll also be a very lonely one. I wish you the best of luck.
 
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I'm an incoming M1 starting in 2 weeks. I have a fiancee, and I'm not really planning on making any true friends in medical school. I'm not there to make friends. I'm there to learn. I feel like the people who get to med school and are hyper-social and/or looking to go out and party are the ones who were neurotic premeds who never really lived it up in undergrad. I partied like crazy in undergrad, and now I no longer have any interest in that lifestyle. It's time to put away childish things.

And yeah, I know that being social doesn't necessarily mean partying.
*sniff sniff* smells like...gunner.
 
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1 significant other
1 BFF
2 good friends
many acquaintances
 
The only people I know of in my class who seemingly have no social life are the people with a full blown family and have very little time to hang out whenever they want. Even these people have friends, they just don't have the time to socialize much outside of class. I can't imagine why anyone would deliberately want to avoid having friends though. If you view having friendships as a burden then you need to change your entire outlook.
 
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Having friends does not preclude you from doing well in school. In fact, I'd say your SO would be more apt to negatively impact your career and study habits than a medical student. We all respect your decision to not have friends but don't pretend like it's the better option for everyone. Your toolish attitude will get you nowhere fast. There's always that one guy. And word gets around. Don't be that guy.

Nah. This guy in particular can be that guy.
 
Okay, you spend your extra time making friends, and I'll spend mine going the extra mile in studying to ensure honors and huge board scores...and we'll see who gets the better residency.

Again, talk is cheap. You could literally go your entire medical school career not befriending a single person and still match at the most competitive residency program out of your whole class if you just work your ass off.

Last time I checked, you don't get extra points on Step 1 for being popular. You gotta put your head down and do the work. At the end of the day, that's what its all about. That's how you prove your worth.
At the risk of derailing this thread by bringing up something unrelated, I would like to point out that hard work in med school does not ensure honors and huge board scores. The vast majority of med students come in confident that if they put in the hours, they will be in the top of the class and get the step scores they want. 50% of the people with this feeling will be in the bottom half of the class. I hope that isn't the case for you, but it can be good to have friends in your class who can commiserate with your experience if you end up disappointed. If your fiancee is enough in that role, so be it. Like you say, talk is cheap. Come back to us after you finish M1 and let us know if your determination to eschew friendship in exchange for good grades works out. I sincerely hope it does.

I also think you underestimate the importance of networking in med school. Right now, I plan on going into general surgery. The chairman of the department of surgery at my school, with whom I've had a mentoring relationship since M1, has said he picks up the phone and calls program directors about students he likes to help them get the residency they want. That relationship, to me, is as important as my (very high) step 1 score.
 
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Do you have time/energy to keep up with many relationships?

Or is it like you have one good buddy you hang out with/study with and maybe a girlfriend/boyfriend?

or do you have no time at all for relationships..

Don't force anything. Just do what you need to do for school and whatever relationships you make will fall into place.

In terms of a relationship, if you meet someone worthwhile there's always time.

I came out of med school with probably one 'Best-Man-level' life-long friend. And he and I had actually strongly disliked each other the first few times we met, which we both find funny today. You just gotta stay open to people.
 
Do you have time/energy to keep up with many relationships?

Or is it like you have one good buddy you hang out with/study with and maybe a girlfriend/boyfriend?

or do you have no time at all for relationships..

I have 4 close friends. I study with them then we go to a brewery and drink a cold one post exam and whine about the Royals.

I have a wife and we have time here and there to have dinner, see a movie which I'll usually do the same day after grabbing a beer with my friends. Best part about it is that most exams are on Mondays so that's my day off. It's not busy and happy hour is good. We don't spend as much time going out as we did dating, but we have acclimated well so far.


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M3 with a bunch of great friends. There's 15 of us, including SOs, and then some more people who tangentially hang out with us. It's harder and harder to get everyone together, but we hang out in smaller groups based on schedule and have a few big get togethers every few months.

Med school has been the best time of my life, and I loved college. I'm excited for my MD, but I'm really sad that all the wonderful people I have met along the way will be moving on, too. I never got the "you're going to med school, kiss your life goodbye" attitude. My friends are smart people who do well in school and killed Step, kind people who do well on rotations and care about their patients, and fun people who are a blast to spend time with. I have plenty of time to study, I have plenty of time to have a beer and play some games with my friends. There is absolutely time to form and maintain relationships during medical school, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
 
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I also don't understand the "it is just 4 years and then everyone is going to leave" attitude. I left my high school friend, my college friends are scattered, my med school friends will eventually match elsewhere. If I didn't make friends because they were going to leave in 4 years I basically would have never had a friend
 
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Just because you don't hang out with people outside of school doesn't mean that you can't be cordial and respectful with everyone you work with. I'm by no means a gunner. I'm just really introverted and feel more comfortable staying in and watching Netflix by myself or talking on the phone with my family versus going out to a bar with classmates. I think people tend to really overestimate the value of networking in medicine. This isn't business school. Talk is cheap. If you bust your ass and prove yourself, you'll get to where you want to go, with or without friends. Friends are a luxury, not a necessity.

Work on the admin side; you're wrong. Aren't you a first year med student? How do you know the value of networking in medicine if you haven't practiced clinically?
 
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OP, the only friend you need is a killer Step score. Seriously...
 
Foot Fetish, you have lots of more experienced people basically telling you the same thing and you're still rejecting it as if you know better. It looks like you are battling with an insecurity and trying to twist it into as asset instead of address it and work on it. It's not an asset. Sure, some people are probably over emphasizing the whole networking thing or the idea of "needing" friends, but the ability to make friends in different situations is important. Who do you think other doctors are going to want to work with? How bout nurses, MAs, scrub techs, etc? How about patients? Do you think any of those people will know your scores or grades? A lot of them won't even care if you have a name brand residency. Also, you seem to be discounting the amount of friendly, social, extroverts who absolutely destroy med school academically. These people will be your competition if you are thinking you are going to define yourself solely on objective achievements.

Also, just wait till you hit third year...you're in for a real shocker. I have done very well academically and it is incredibly frustrating to be in a system where the grading is SO subjective. The shelf was worth 30% on avg at my school and the rest is basically subjective evaluation. I would consider myself an extrovert who makes friends pretty easy but it's still so random based on what team you land on or who your preceptor is. If you think you can just show up and be the smartest person there and expect to honor, you're probably mistaken.

EDIT: my bad, did not mean to address OP
 
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OP you have lots of more experienced people basically telling you the same thing and you're still rejecting it as if you know better. It looks like you are battling with an insecurity and trying to twist it into as asset instead of address it and work on it. It's not an asset. Sure, some people are probably over emphasizing the whole networking thing or the idea of "needing" friends, but the ability to make friends in different situations is important. Who do you think other doctors are going to want to work with? How bout nurses, MAs, scrub techs, etc? How about patients? Do you think any of those people will know your scores or grades? A lot of them won't even care if you have a name brand residency. Also, you seem to be discounting the amount of friendly, social, extroverts who absolutely destroy med school academically. These people will be your competition if you are thinking you are going to define yourself solely on objective achievements.

Also, just wait till you hit third year...you're in for a real shocker. I have done very well academically and it is incredibly frustrating to be in a system where the grading is SO subjective. The shelf was worth 30% on avg at my school and the rest is basically subjective evaluation. I would consider myself an extrovert who makes friends pretty easy but it's still so random based on what team you land on or who your preceptor is. If you think you can just show up and be the smartest person there and expect to honor, you're probably mistaken.
I think you're confusing OP with one of the respondees, because this comment doesn't make sense as applied to the real OP (who never responded to or rejected any advice.) Probably easier just to quote someone so people know who you're replying to!
 
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I think you're confusing OP with one of the respondees, because this comment doesn't make sense as applied to the real OP (who never responded to or rejected any advice.) Probably easier just to quote someone so people know who you're replying to!

Thanks for the heads up. Edited.
 
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fyi, i'm at the top of my class and 265 step 1 and honored my first 2 rotations (on my 3rd one now), who will likely be applying derm. I never said don't work hard; as you can see I'm all ove

This is the most SDN post that has ever existed.
 
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This is the most SDN post that has ever existed.
Believe it or not the only reason I even did well was by following the methods of people who were successful on this site. Without the advice from here, I would be s*** outta luck. This site has pure gold. Just gotta know how to synthesize it together.

When I started reading SDN regularly I was incredibly intimidated by how well people were doing. I never thought I could one day do as well. But it was amazing how when I applied their methods, I saw results.

Seriously I owe this site and the posters a lot. SDN isn't just a site for high achieving students. It's also a site for the ordinary to learn how to elevate their game.
 
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