How many family medicine programs to apply to?

[premedman12345]

I'm a 4th year DO med student (US citizen too) applying to community family medicine residency. I have no red flags (board failures, failed classes or repeated years). I have pretty
low board scores 406 on Level 1 and 462 on Level 2.


How many programs would you apply to if you were in my position? Looking specifically for community family med (location doesn't really matter)

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[DO2015CA]

you will be fine with 30.

 

[deleted1062590]

The AAFP pushes the 17-12-10 concept, which means that based on the law of averages, you should apply to 17 programs, interview at 12, and rank 10. If you do this, you have a super-high chance of matching.

But that's for an average MD applicant in a non-COVID/virtual cycle. And that also doesn't take into account many factors like if you're applying where you live/went to med school or if you're applying to community-based vs. academic medical center programs, etc. etc.

So that being said, applying to 17 programs would be your starting point. You're a DO with unremarkable test scores, so I would add 15-20 programs because of those factors. You want a community program, so no need to add more for that. What about geography? If you want to stay close/in-state/in-region, I wouldn't add more programs. If you wanted to go farther away, I would add another 10-15. Lastly, in the pandemic, I would just baseline add another 5-10 programs for cushion.

So all in all, based on your resume, I'd say apply to 37-47 programs if you want to stay close/in-state/in-region OR 47-62 programs if you want to go somewhere far away.

 

[YeOleBoneWiz]

The AAFP pushes the 17-12-10 concept, which means that based on the law of averages, you should apply to 17 programs, interview at 12, and rank 10. If you do this, you have a super-high chance of matching.

But that's for an average MD applicant in a non-COVID/virtual cycle. And that also doesn't take into account many factors like if you're applying where you live/went to med school or if you're applying to community-based vs. academic medical center programs, etc. etc.

So that being said, applying to 17 programs would be your starting point. You're a DO with unremarkable test scores, so I would add 15-20 programs because of those factors. You want a community program, so no need to add more for that. What about geography? If you want to stay close/in-state/in-region, I wouldn't add more programs. If you wanted to go farther away, I would add another 10-15. Lastly, in the pandemic, I would just baseline add another 5-10 programs for cushion.

So all in all, based on your resume, I'd say apply to 37-47 programs if you want to stay close/in-state/in-region OR 47-62 programs if you want to go somewhere far away.

I have never seen so many random numbers thrown around in a way that mean nothing

its freaking family med apply to like 30, only with ones you like and you will match. People might say your scores aren't great but they are better than anyone who has ever failing anything. Plus there's open spots every year. Sheesh @ guy above making it sound like you need to apply to 62.434235523532523523 programs plus or minus 2 per SD of differentiate radius from the mean times X^2 programs.

 

[MLNS]

Ya 80 is insane amount. You have low board scores but you’re an American and went to med school in America

if you apply to 40 you’ll probably get a 50% yield

gl dude

 

[deleted1062590]

I have never seen so many random numbers thrown around in a way that mean nothing

its freaking family med apply to like 30, only with ones you like and you will match. People might say your scores aren't great but they are better than anyone who has ever failing anything. Plus there's open spots every year. Sheesh @ guy above making it sound like you need to apply to 62.434235523532523523 programs plus or minus 2 per SD of differentiate radius from the mean times X^2 programs.

"its freaking family med." Solid advice. I assume OP made the thread because people say exactly that to him/her all the time. Some nuanced, albeit perhaps a bit overly-detailed, advice is more helpful. Not all FM programs or applicants are the same.

 

[ciestar]

I applied to 46 as an MD with a 211 step one and got way more interviews than i could attend.

 

[DameJulie]

I applied to 46 as an MD with a 211 step one and got way more interviews than i could attend.

Did you apply to academic programs? community ones? Geographically broad? Just wondering how to apply strategically

 

[ciestar]

Did you apply to academic programs? community ones? Geographically broad? Just wondering how to apply strategically

Basically almost every program around Philly. Some in North Jersey. So a mix or community and academic.

 

[deleted1062590]

Basically almost every program around Philly. Some in North Jersey. So a mix or community and academic.

I'm not surprised by that. Also 211 MD is MUCH better than a 406 DO. Ultimately, geography is king. Sure community programs might be easier to score an interview at, but still geography matters a whole lot. I think if you applied to academic programs across the US, your return would have been much lower.

 

[DO2015CA]

I'm not surprised by that. Also 211 MD is MUCH better than a 406 DO. Ultimately, geography is king. Sure community programs might be easier to score an interview at, but still geography matters a whole lot. I think if you applied to academic programs across the US, your return would have been much lower.

Academic FM programs are surprisingly less competitive than quite a few unopposed community programs because you are having to compete against other specialties.

 

[ciestar]

Academic FM programs are surprisingly less competitive than quite a few unopposed community programs because you are having to compete against other specialties.

Exactly.

 

[ciestar]

I'm not surprised by that. Also 211 MD is MUCH better than a 406 DO. Ultimately, geography is king. Sure community programs might be easier to score an interview at, but still geography matters a whole lot. I think if you applied to academic programs across the US, your return would have been much lower.

I got interviews to even the big name academic programs lol

But yes, geography does matter and that definitely helped me because i wanted to stay local.

 

[premedman12345]

Academic FM programs are surprisingly less competitive than quite a few unopposed community programs because you are having to compete against other specialties.

So would you say it's better to apply to academic too?

 

[Tozanzibarbymotorcar]

I would apply to more than 50. You might be fine with 25 but do you want to take that chance? What about if this is the year that everyone applies FM and competition is crazy?

Also, do you have FM letters? Did you do well on your rotation?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

People need to come back to reality. OP doesn't need to apply to anything above 30 programs as long as they are remotely smart with where they apply. Even with low scores if OP applies to 50 FM programs they will get 20 interviews.

 

[ciestar]

So would you say it's better to apply to academic too?

Yes. FM is way different than other specialties in this regard

 

[NVO]

This is FM guys. I know of someone that got in the 400's for both Level 1 and Level 2 like OP here but also had a red flag. Was scared and applied to like 80 programs including community programs in the middle of nowhere. Within the first few days, had like 19 invites and by the end of the first week, had way too many invites to deal with and was actively canceling a bunch of them. Save your money. Apply to like 30-40 and enjoy swimming in invites

 

[premedman12345]

I would apply to more than 50. You might be fine with 25 but do you want to take that chance? What about if this is the year that everyone applies FM and competition is crazy?

Also, do you have FM letters? Did you do well on your rotation?

yes, I have 3 fm letter And yes did decent on rotations. Nothing stellar honored sub I fm tho.

 

[MedicalDestiny]

I have never seen so many random numbers thrown around in a way that mean nothing

its freaking family med apply to like 30, only with ones you like and you will match. People might say your scores aren't great but they are better than anyone who has ever failing anything. Plus there's open spots every year. Sheesh @ guy above making it sound like you need to apply to 62.434235523532523523 programs plus or minus 2 per SD of differentiate radius from the mean times X^2 programs.

Great answer lol yes there are no calculations. Apply to a good number but you gotta ace the interview and overall application. Aim for being a good presenter of yourself and that should be your winning card it regardless of number of applications.

 

[hungrydoc710]

This is FM guys. I know of someone that got in the 400's for both Level 1 and Level 2 like OP here but also had a red flag. Was scared and applied to like 80 programs including community programs in the middle of nowhere. Within the first few days, had like 19 invites and by the end of the first week, had way too many invites to deal with and was actively canceling a bunch of them. Save your money. Apply to like 30-40 and enjoy swimming in invites

Same kinda returns for IM you think also?

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Ya 80 is insane amount. You have low board scores but you’re an American and went to med school in America

if you apply to 40 you’ll probably get a 50% yield

gl dude

I thought your were telling him to go GI, lol

 

[Secondtimeisacharm]

Quick questions if anyone knows:
209 step 1, 236 step 2 no failed classes, have applied to 25 programs gotten 7 interviews so far. Not heard from Michigan but others have. Would I have heard by now if they passed on me?
One of my reference letters submitted late by 1 day ☹️ Will this impact interview chances?

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

View attachment 321735

If you are applying to less than 50 programs then you are below average for this year.

50 is overkill for FM...

 

[hungrydoc710]

Quick questions if anyone knows:
209 step 1, 236 step 2 no failed classes, have applied to 25 programs gotten 7 interviews so far. Not heard from Michigan but others have. Would I have heard by now if they passed on me?
One of my reference letters submitted late by 1 day ☹ Will this impact interview chances?

U of M FM program?

 

[hallowmann]

Quick questions if anyone knows:
209 step 1, 236 step 2 no failed classes, have applied to 25 programs gotten 7 interviews so far. Not heard from Michigan but others have. Would I have heard by now if they passed on me?
One of my reference letters submitted late by 1 day ☹️ Will this impact interview chances?

You've already gotten a 30% return and it's been a week. I suspect you'll be fine and get at least 5-7 more by the end. If you're really nervous you could add 5-10, but I absolutely wouldn't do more than that.

 

[cadingcading]

Chuckling reading this....Yeah def would not go under 50 this year

 

[DameJulie]

View attachment 321735

If you are applying to less than 50 programs then you are below average for this year.

Can you link to the source? Curious about other specialties too

 

[Espressso]

Can you link to the source? Curious about other specialties too

ERAS® Statistics

This page contains current and historical data related to ERAS applicants and applications.

www.aamc.org

 

[Secondtimeisacharm]

U of M FM program?

Yes!

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

50 is average for this year. Are you stating that the average applicant is engaging in overkill?

Precisely, that’s overkill for the average DO applicant who will spend way too much money, get about a 50% yield on their apps for interviews and forgo many of them cause they can only attend soo many of them. This is FM we are talking about.. a poster above already has 7 interviews and they only applied to 25 programs with a 209 step and this is only October lol

 

[ciestar]

50 is average for this year. Are you stating that the average applicant is engaging in overkill?

Lol 25 was overkill for me last year

But this was also last year

 

[SLC]

I applied to 30 programs in 2015, all on the competitive end of the spectrum (for Family Med), scores: 558/230, 560/227. No fails, no red flags. Result: SOAP.

My PD at the place I soaped into (also a competitive FM program, that happened to have an opening in SOAP that year) speculated I may have been assumed as having FM as a “safety” if I didn’t match into something else.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I applied to 30 programs in 2015, all on the competitive end of the spectrum (for Family Med), scores: 558/230, 560/227. No fails, no red flags. Result: SOAP.

My PD at the place I soaped into (also a competitive FM program, that happened to have an opening in SOAP that year) speculated I may have been assumed as having FM as a “safety” if I didn’t match into something else.

Wow that’s absolutely crazy...

 

[Mr. Babe]

I have 2 friends that just started FM residency as CO 2020. One had a 478 level 1 and 503 level 2 and applied to 15 programs. He got 11 interviews and matched his number 1. The other friend had a 409 level 1 and 452 level 2. He applied to 45 programs and got 30 interviews and had to turn down most of them and he also matched his number 1. Seems like everyone has a different story so I personally can't trust anyone's advice here as everyone seems to think they know what they're talking about. n=2 in my case so take it all with a grain of salt. The amount of programs you apply to says nothing about an applicants personality and how well they interview because in FM that's way more important than board scores.

 

[Cornfed101]

I applied to 30 programs in 2015, all on the competitive end of the spectrum (for Family Med), scores: 558/230, 560/227. No fails, no red flags. Result: SOAP.

My PD at the place I soaped into (also a competitive FM program, that happened to have an opening in SOAP that year) speculated I may have been assumed as having FM as a “safety” if I didn’t match into something else.

That is pretty dumb... so basically people that score well on step aren’t allowed to have FM as a first choice?

 

[SLC]

That is pretty dumb... so basically people that score well on step aren’t allowed to have FM as a first choice?

If I’m being honest, I may not have interviewed too well either. I’m fairly introverted. I went on only 9 interviews too, probably should have gone on more, but I couldn’t afford to.

But my PD said she thought that was the reason.

 

[Koronerarter]

Guys any help for an IMG. Applied about 200 FM so far with no IV’s. Stats, s1-212, s2-236, cs-pass, s3-221 all 1st take. Yog 2015. Previous ER resident and FM physician abroad. Really nerve wrecking here...

 

[CocoMelon0531]

To be successful for the FM match, you need to have a certain brand:

1. Must pass first try on Comlex PE or you’re not fit for FM.
2. Preferably a under 35% percentile for Level 1/2
3. A ERAS pic of you with a ponytail and endorsing preventive health and plant based diet
4. Excess community service hrs to prove that you are a good person
5. Lipsticks with lips puckered up and an energetic attitude during interviews to prove that FM is your passion.
6. Invest in school logo ties during interviews with these programs to prove that they’re in fact your top choices

 

[DO2015CA]

To be successful for the FM match, you need to have a certain brand:

1. Must pass first try on Comlex PE or you’re not fit for FM.
2. Preferably a under 35% percentile for Level 1/2
3. A ERAS pic of you with a ponytail and endorsing preventive health and plant based diet
4. Excess community service hrs to prove that you are a good person
5. Lipsticks with lips puckered up and an energetic attitude during interviews to prove that FM is your passion.
6. Invest in school logo ties during interviews with these programs to prove that they’re in fact your top choices

No tie because that’s too internal medicine-y

 

[hallowmann]

To be successful for the FM match, you need to have a certain brand:

1. Must pass first try on Comlex PE or you’re not fit for FM.
2. Preferably a under 35% percentile for Level 1/2
3. A ERAS pic of you with a ponytail and endorsing preventive health and plant based diet
4. Excess community service hrs to prove that you are a good person
5. Lipsticks with lips puckered up and an energetic attitude during interviews to prove that FM is your passion.
6. Invest in school logo ties during interviews with these programs to prove that they’re in fact your top choices

I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but...

1. is accurate
2. is inaccurate
3. Is very region dependent - you'd do best by styling your hair and plant-based diet approach based on the region you're aiming for
5. Also regionally dependent
6. As above is too IM-y

 

[Secondtimeisacharm]

Is it too late to apply to additional FM programs to be considered for an interview?

 

[hallowmann]

Is it too late to apply to additional FM programs to be considered for an interview?

No

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

I applied to 30 with stats essentially identical as OP. 19 IV's so far, of which I will almost certainly cancel 5-7. Been on 5 interviews so far and all 5 PD's said they were NOT interviewing more candidates this year.

Anything over 30 is overkill for FM, pandemic or no pandemic.

 

[kiwi1994]

Yes!

Did you eventually get an interview at U of M FM?

 

[Secondtimeisacharm]

Did you eventually get an interview at U of M FM?

I didn’t 😕

 

[kiwi1994]

I didn’t 😕

Ah sorry to hear that.. Didn't mean to put salt on the wound. Was just curious! Goodluck with match though!

 

[Secondtimeisacharm]

Ah sorry to hear that.. Didn't mean to put salt on the wound. Was just curious! Goodluck with match though!

Thank you and to you too! I was exhausted with the number of interviews so didn’t bother reaching out to them. Hope I don’t regret it. Getting my final list together now. Did end up visiting Rochester, love their program but IDK about the city. Hoping to visit Madison WI and the Charlottesville program next week! Covid has put a damper on getting a feel for the programs in person and a feel for the cities .

Would love to read how others are managing this process.