How many interviews are enough?? Help a brother out.......

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

tool

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
114
Reaction score
1
I'm ranked in the middle of my class with board scores around the 30% and am applying to IM. I have 8 interviews so far and was wondering how many more should i go to? Most of the programs I applied to have 10-15 positions and interview right at 100 people. I have done 2 sub-i's and feel I have a good chance of matching at one of these 2 places....but i don't want to be burnt come March. Any advice greatly appreciated.
 
84 people view and not one response.....this website is truly useless at times
 
a good indicator to use is the ranks/position value in the NRMP data tables for your specialty. for internal medicine in 2005 it was 4.5, so youre almost double at 8 interviews. unless you really do poorly on those interviews, odds are you will match.
 
thanks for the reply...had no idea such a thing existed at the NRMP....
 
cyanocobalamin said:
Why are the no. of ranks/position number so high for prelim medicine and TYs? Are they really hard to get? Should I have applied to more than 20?
if you look at positions offered vs ranked positions youll see that theres about 5000 categorical internal med positions, and about 2000 prelim positions. but both categorical and prelims have 20,000 or so ranks. this is probably cause of people applying to both categorical and prelim positions at the same time. the vast majority of these people will match categorical though, but this inflates the medicine prelim numbers. ive never heard of internal med prelim spots being hard to get, some transitional spots (cali) are hard to get, but most of them arent.
 
imtiaz said:
if you look at positions offered vs ranked positions youll see that theres about 5000 categorical internal med positions, and about 2000 prelim positions. but both categorical and prelims have 20,000 or so ranks. this is probably cause of people applying to both categorical and prelim positions at the same time. the vast majority of these people will match categorical though, but this inflates the medicine prelim numbers. ive never heard of internal med prelim spots being hard to get, some transitional spots (cali) are hard to get, but most of them arent.

Thanks for the insight! I too, always thought that prelim years were not that hard to land, though I guess some prime locations (e.g. SF, Colorado, etc.) may be harder.
 
tool said:
84 people view and not one response.....this website is truly useless at times

Seven, the magic number is seven. Statistically, that is. Your personal experience may depart from the odds.

"...I have found some kind of temporary sanity in this.... **** blood and come on my hands..."

-MJK
 
a good indicator to use is the ranks/position value in the NRMP data tables for your specialty. for internal medicine in 2005 it was 4.5, so youre almost double at 8 interviews. unless you really do poorly on those interviews, odds are you will match.
__________________
M4 - University of Illinois College of Medicine at Rockford


4.5 is for US grads only!!! The total rank position is over 8. So for an IMG like me, definately over 8 interviews (I actually have 10 now, waiting for deans letter to go out) and will do a few more for "insurance"! But it is really adding up $$$$ fast! 😀 GL
 
imtiaz said:
a good indicator to use is the ranks/position value in the NRMP data tables for your specialty. for internal medicine in 2005 it was 4.5, so youre almost double at 8 interviews. unless you really do poorly on those interviews, odds are you will match.

call me a math major, but i am a little confused as to what the tables means in terms of 4.5 RANKS/POSITION....what does that actually mean....could someone please put that in human language....

i checked out the site, but am still confused...


thanks,


statistical genius
 
Okay, so a lot of people have asked about how many programs to interview at and that's about 10...now what about the number of programs you should rank? What if you find, after interviewing at different programs, that your rank-order list is shortened because you don't like a program?

What is the ideal number of programs that you should be able to rank by the end of interview season in February?
 
CTKN2 said:
Okay, so a lot of people have asked about how many programs to interview at and that's about 10...now what about the number of programs you should rank? What if you find, after interviewing at different programs, that your rank-order list is shortened because you don't like a program?

What is the ideal number of programs that you should be able to rank by the end of interview season in February?
Statistically, your chances of matching are significantly better if you rank 7 or more programs. That's all specialties taken together, though - there may be variation depending on the competetiveness of the field.
 
medlaw06 said:
call me a math major, but i am a little confused as to what the tables means in terms of 4.5 RANKS/POSITION....what does that actually mean....could someone please put that in human language....

i checked out the site, but am still confused...


thanks,


statistical genius

bump
 
medlaw06 said:
call me a math major, but i am a little confused as to what the tables means in terms of 4.5 RANKS/POSITION....what does that actually mean....could someone please put that in human language....

i checked out the site, but am still confused...


thanks,


statistical genius

Yeah, that is confusing wording. After hunting around on their site and noting how they tend to label their data, I am fairly certain that ranks/position refers to the number of applicants ranked divided by the number of available positions. They keep track of this number for each program individually and then they come up with an average over the entire specialty. So, for IM, PD's rank an average of 4.5 times more applicants than they have positions. I wouldn't be surprised if it's much lower for competitive IM programs, though.

I also wonder how much you can really tell from that 4.5 number, because it just tells you how many they rank, not how far down their list they end up going. I don't think you can directly translate it into a 22% chance of matching at each program, because I'm sure they rank a good number more than they need to so they can be sure to fill.

And now for my question: I keep seeing people say things like, "you need 10 interviews to match in a competitive specialty," or "you need to rank 7 to match." I have not seen anyone explain where they get those numbers. Anybody know?
 
BigBadBix said:
Yeah, that is confusing wording. After hunting around on their site and noting how they tend to label their data, I am fairly certain that ranks/position refers to the number of applicants ranked divided by the number of available positions. They keep track of this number for each program individually and then they come up with an average over the entire specialty. So, for IM, PD's rank an average of 4.5 times more applicants than they have positions. I wouldn't be surprised if it's much lower for competitive IM programs, though.

I also wonder how much you can really tell from that 4.5 number, because it just tells you how many they rank, not how far down their list they end up going. I don't think you can directly translate it into a 22% chance of matching at each program, because I'm sure they rank a good number more than they need to so they can be sure to fill.

And now for my question: I keep seeing people say things like, "you need 10 interviews to match in a competitive specialty," or "you need to rank 7 to match." I have not seen anyone explain where they get those numbers. Anybody know?


I had the same issue....you should read DrNick2006's (I think) post....he/she breaks it down mathematically....and trust me, it gave me a headache (actually a thunderclap HA), but KUDOS TO DRNICK!!!!!!
 
tool said:
I'm ranked in the middle of my class with board scores around the 30% and am applying to IM. I have 8 interviews so far and was wondering how many more should i go to? Most of the programs I applied to have 10-15 positions and interview right at 100 people. I have done 2 sub-i's and feel I have a good chance of matching at one of these 2 places....but i don't want to be burnt come March. Any advice greatly appreciated.

Eleven! Unless you are from Arkansas, then twelve.
 
BigBadBix said:
Yeah, that is confusing wording. After hunting around on their site and noting how they tend to label their data, I am fairly certain that ranks/position refers to the number of applicants ranked divided by the number of available positions. They keep track of this number for each program individually and then they come up with an average over the entire specialty. So, for IM, PD's rank an average of 4.5 times more applicants than they have positions. I wouldn't be surprised if it's much lower for competitive IM programs, though.

I also wonder how much you can really tell from that 4.5 number, because it just tells you how many they rank, not how far down their list they end up going. I don't think you can directly translate it into a 22% chance of matching at each program, because I'm sure they rank a good number more than they need to so they can be sure to fill.

And now for my question: I keep seeing people say things like, "you need 10 interviews to match in a competitive specialty," or "you need to rank 7 to match." I have not seen anyone explain where they get those numbers. Anybody know?


ok so here is the thread where DrNick2006 breaks it down:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=3099277#post3099277
 
BigBadBix said:
Yeah, that is confusing wording. After hunting around on their site and noting how they tend to label their data, I am fairly certain that ranks/position refers to the number of applicants ranked divided by the number of available positions. They keep track of this number for each program individually and then they come up with an average over the entire specialty. So, for IM, PD's rank an average of 4.5 times more applicants than they have positions. I wouldn't be surprised if it's much lower for competitive IM programs, though.

I also wonder how much you can really tell from that 4.5 number, because it just tells you how many they rank, not how far down their list they end up going. I don't think you can directly translate it into a 22% chance of matching at each program, because I'm sure they rank a good number more than they need to so they can be sure to fill.

And now for my question: I keep seeing people say things like, "you need 10 interviews to match in a competitive specialty," or "you need to rank 7 to match." I have not seen anyone explain where they get those numbers. Anybody know?


I humbly disagree. If that were the case, why would more competitive specialties, like Derm or Ortho, have such a high Ranks/Position ratio? It seems they wouldn't have to rank very many at all to fill their program.

My guess is that it refers to the number of applicants that rank a position. For example, if a program has 10 positions, and Ranks/Position ratio of 8, that means 80 people ranked that program, which is probably pretty close to the number of interviews that program granted. In other words, just about everyone that interviews probably ranks it somewhere in their ROL, especially in the more competitive specialties.
 
westsidespartan said:
I humbly disagree. If that were the case, why would more competitive specialties, like Derm or Ortho, have such a high Ranks/Position ratio? It seems they wouldn't have to rank very many at all to fill their program.

My guess is that it refers to the number of applicants that rank a position. For example, if a program has 10 positions, and Ranks/Position ratio of 8, that means 80 people ranked that program, which is probably pretty close to the number of interviews that program granted. In other words, just about everyone that interviews probably ranks it somewhere in their ROL, especially in the more competitive specialties.

I agree that, at first glance, it would seem strange for competitive specialties to rank so many. However, I think there may be other factors at play that could explain it. Just because a specialty ranks a lot of people doesn't make it less competitive. There are additional factors at play that we may not be considering. For example, perhaps it's very hard to get interviews in derm, but once you get to the interview level, all the derm programs are interviewing the same small group of applicants. There would therefore be a great deal of overlap, and if most derm programs rank the same top 5-10, they may need relatively longer lists in case those top applicants end up elsewhere. I have no idea how true any of this is, but my point is that I don't know if the data on this table capture the whole picture.

Anyway, I do think the explanation you gave makes some sense as well. Before my other post, because I couldn't convince myself strongly of either your definition or the one I propsed, I decided to see if the NRMP defined "ranks/position" anywhere on their site. That's when I found this: http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/about_res/impact.html. Here, they are trying to prove a different point, but they show their data in two tables: one for program lists and one for applicant lists. As you can see, when they are referring to the length of program lists in relation to their # of positions, they title the column "average ranks/position," the exact same wording as used in the table we were discussing. When they refer to the number of ranks applicants made, they title the column "average length of ROLs." So, I thought it very likely that they would use consistent labeling for all of their data, hence my previous explanation. Of course, it's also possible that they just happen to have two different things labeled similarly.

But in the end does it even matter? I personally feel that the data on this page is not really going to tell us what we want to know, as it depends on how far down the list a program goes and how competitive the applicant is. Moreover, this data doesn't indicate how many ranks it takes to match in each specialty. What do others think?
 
hey all...this is a dumb question and I am pretty sure I know the answer already, but figured I would ask anyway since there is a slight possibility that I may be wrong....

BUt, it is possible to see how many ranks/position A SPECIFIC PROGRAM has? We all agree that there is some controversy as to what it means for different fields, but what about specific programs? Would ACGME website have that info? Is this something I can ask a PD during an interview, or it this question more along the lines of shooting myself in the foot (i.e. an interview no-no)?

Thanks
 
tool said:
I'm ranked in the middle of my class with board scores around the 30% and am applying to IM. I have 8 interviews so far and was wondering how many more should i go to? Most of the programs I applied to have 10-15 positions and interview right at 100 people. I have done 2 sub-i's and feel I have a good chance of matching at one of these 2 places....but i don't want to be burnt come March. Any advice greatly appreciated.


The answer is 42.
 
starayamoskva said:
The answer is 42.

Thanks for the advice smart ass...I'll interview at 43 just to make sure.
 
tool said:
Thanks for the advice smart ass...I'll interview at 43 just to make sure.

Obviously you have never read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Lighten up!
 
Top