How many years in total does it take to become a surgical PA?

[2NeRLyFsTyLE]

I know it's 4 yrs undergrad, but I don't know how many years for PA school and surgical assistant training.

Also, is a surgical PA the same thing as a surgical first assistant? I know this question is kind of obvious but I just want to make sure because I hear lots of different names for any type of surgical assistant.

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[Chronic Student]

The vast majority of surgical PA's out there get some OR training on rotations and most of the rest is OJT. There are a smaller number that do formal residencies or none at all if they have prior OR/Assist experience.

A surgical PA is a first assist. There are many different pathways to first assisting. Most start out as RNs or scrub techs and get some extra training to first assist, but I seem to remember several other ways to get there as well.

 

[core0]

I know it's 4 yrs undergrad, but I don't know how many years for PA school and surgical assistant training.

Also, is a surgical PA the same thing as a surgical first assistant? I know this question is kind of obvious but I just want to make sure because I hear lots of different names for any type of surgical assistant.

All PA programs train in general medicine that allow you to be certified. There are two that specifically designated as surgical PA programs (UAB and Cornell). These programs are 2 years in length. All programs give you some surgical experience with operative experience. The great majority of PAs get their training on the job which builds on what they learned in school or on their rotations. There are also a few post grad surgical PA programs. Overall PA programs average 27 months. That is after getting the the prerequisites done which can range from a bachelors to 2 years or so for the certificate programs.

A PA is one of a number of positions that can work as a surgical first assist. What makes the PA preferred in some practices is that they are the only providers besides physicians and NPs that can bill medicare for first assist fees. As chronic student stated there are a number of pathways to become a first assist.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[2NeRLyFsTyLE]

Thank you both for your replies ^^

 

[julie walker]

I do not know if other people share this opinion but being a PA to me is a waste of time. What autonomy do they have? Oh boy, this seem to be a waste of money and time. Just be a doctor or a nurse and call it a day.

 

[core0]

I do not know if other people share this opinion but being a PA to me is a waste of time. What autonomy do they have? Oh boy, this seem to be a waste of money and time. Just be a doctor or a nurse and call it a day.

Thank you for validating my career choice. The fact that you disapprove tells me that I have made the right career decision. I would also like to thank you for providing Tired somebody to argue with. Foreverlaur has not been posting as much and I think that he was getting lonely. I am sure with your astute observations and opinions you will make an excellent nurse and your contribution to health care will be second only to that of Florence Nightingale.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[foreverLaur]

I do not know if other people share this opinion but being a PA to me is a waste of time. What autonomy do they have? Oh boy, this seem to be a waste of money and time. Just be a doctor or a nurse and call it a day.

Go over and post that on the PA Forum and see what responses you get with that statement. It'd be fun.

If you actually knew ANYTHING about the PA Profession, you'd realize that if you get in with a good doctor, it is an absolutely fantastic career option, and in my case, far better than being a doctor. I have had the opportunity to speak with several PAs as well as shadow two and they are extremely happy with their careers. Oh and they also have a lot of autonomy.

Do your research before throwing out opinions. You are more than welcomed to seek advice here and give out advice when appropriate but keep your comments about other people's chosen professions to yourself.

 

[premedinpa]

I do not know if other people share this opinion but being a PA to me is a waste of time. What autonomy do they have? Oh boy, this seem to be a waste of money and time. Just be a doctor or a nurse and call it a day.

Each part of the health care team plays a different and intergral role, and PAs are certainly a crucial aspect and you shouldn't pass judgement on a profession whose goal is to help people, which is such an honorable career choice imo.

 

[lapelirroja]

I do not know if other people share this opinion but being a PA to me is a waste of time. What autonomy do they have? Oh boy, this seem to be a waste of money and time. Just be a doctor or a nurse and call it a day.

Is that why you said you wanted to be a nurse practitioner? I hope you realize the job descriptions are quite equivalent.

 

[deleted6669]

SOME places use pa's and np's interchangeably, some do not....

 

[Chronic Student]

I do not know if other people share this opinion but being a PA to me is a waste of time. What autonomy do they have? Oh boy, this seem to be a waste of money and time. Just be a doctor or a nurse and call it a day.

Why become an RN, what autonomy do they have?

 

[Miss Mab]

I'd assume she/they/he was alluding to NP's and their ability to practice independently in some states.


Of course, just 'cause you can doesn't always mean you should.

Wait, what were we talking about?

 

[Chronic Student]

I was just trying to make the point that autonomy is not the be all, end all for a career.

I chose the PA route knowing full well that I was a dependent practicioner and am quite happy in my job.

 

[Eddie]

Great points.

 

[CalBears05]

I am choosing to be a PA because I don't need a big head to be important in the lives of the people I am helping. I enjoy going to see the PA at my doctor's office. She is very knowledgable, has a great personality, and makes me feel welcome. I can tell she is proud of her career and has a great working relationship with the other doctors in the office. My doctor is very good at what he does but really doesn't have the people skills that the PA has.

 

[RAMPA]

I am choosing to be a PA because I don't need a big head to be important in the lives of the people I am helping. I enjoy going to see the PA at my doctor's office. She is very knowledgable, has a great personality, and makes me feel welcome. I can tell she is proud of her career and has a great working relationship with the other doctors in the office. My doctor is very good at what he does but really doesn't have the people skills that the PA has.

who says all physicians have big heads????

some PAs are a**holes and many physicians have incredible bedside manners.

not trying to argue here, but those are broad generalizations.

 

[CalBears05]

I didnt mean to say all physicians have big heads. It was just a response to Julie Walker's post...more of an exaggeration than anything to get the point across.

Anyway, I believe you that some PAs are very inconsiderate and a lot of times more big headed than the doctors. I do know many great doctors...who are they very ones inspiring me to work in medicine because of the love and compassion they have to help people. If time and money weren't a problem, I would become a doctor. RAMPA, I'm sorry if you thought I was attacking the docs...it wasn't my intention.

who says all physicians have big heads????

some PAs are a**holes and many physicians have incredible bedside manners.

not trying to argue here, but those are broad generalizations.

 

[babietuan323]

anymore information after acquiring an RN to become first assist?

 

[foreverLaur]

anymore information after acquiring an RN to become first assist?

I thought a PA and an RN First Assist essentially had the same role in the OR - being a first assist to the surgeon. However, I haven't seen any RNFAs in practice. Anyone know more?

 

[core0]

I thought a PA and an RN First Assist essentially had the same role in the OR - being a first assist to the surgeon. However, I haven't seen any RNFAs in practice. Anyone know more?

Here is the information from AORN:
http://www.aorn.org/PracticeResources/AORNPositionStatements/Position_RNFA/

They essentially function like any other individual in the first assist role (whether it is a PA, NP, physician, RNFA or whatever). The real problem is that in the nursing spectrum they are neither fish nor fowl. The requirements for certification are CNOR (which requires two years of perioperative nursing) and completion of an RNFA program. This is not recognized as an APN and since Medicare only recognizes APNs as NPPs they cannot bill Medicare for their services. Despite having a license they tend to get lumped into the same category as SAs and CST/FAs in terms or privileging. While some claim that they can do H&Ps and order labs, in most states this would be well outside their scope of practice.

I know a number that do this on a contract basis and make good money. However, many hospitals are looking at doing away with first assists that are not NPPs because of supervision and liability issues. I also know some that are hospital employees. They essentially get $2 more an hour if they FA. Tends to breed a fair amount of tension among the employees though.

The other issue is that with the number of CSTs working many RNs never or rarely get to scrub. While you could technically become an RNFA without ever scrubbing, it would probably be hard to find a job.

David Carpenter, PA-C