mx_599

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thanks for sharing

Stinks because I do not want any affiliation with hospitals. I might bite the bullet for a few years for loan purposes....but after that I have other plans and want to get into non-healthcare entrepreneurial ventures too.

do you think there will be any particularly sweet loan forgiveness incentives in the next 5 years? things on the horizon that we do not know about? I am not talking about the current stuff.

Currently looks like you can get roughly 25-30k a year for loans...does this sound right? do you think the pot could be sweetened even more since there is supposed to be a big need? Will they screw those already out with huge loans and only give awesome deals to those just starting school?
 

Blue Dog

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I do not want any affiliation with hospitals.
Even if you're not "affiliated" with a hospital, you still refer patients to them for admission, diagnostic testing, etc. Any hospital needs a solid base of referring primary care physicians.

do you think there will be any particularly sweet loan forgiveness incentives in the next 5 years?
Possibly, although most of these will likely be at the state level. Most states are looking hard at ways to increase the number of primary care physicians in order to solve and/or prevent access problems. Loan payback is one way to do this. There doesn't seem to be much discussion about student indebtedness at the federal level, unfortunately.
 

JackADeli

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How much are doctors worth to hospitals?
Thanks. That posting is good.

In simple terms, I will answer the question this way:

You, as a doctor, are only as valuable to the hospital as the lowest price tag of the physician behind you looking for the same job.

The graphic you posted, IMHO demonstrates how underpaid physicians are accross the board. Granted, some more underpaid then others. But, relative to revenues generated, just about all are underpaid.

FP income to hospital revenue ratio ~ 10x
IM income to hospital revenue ratio ~ 9x
GS income to hospital revenue ratio ~ 6.5x
NS income to hospital revenue ratio ~ 5x
GI income to hospital revenue ratio ~ 3.7x
 
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Blue Dog

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The graphic you posted, IMHO demonstrates how underpaid physicians are accross the board. Granted, some more underpaid then others. But, relative to revenues generated, just about all are underpaid.
Actually, the most interesting thing about the table is how much less FM and IM are compensated relative to their financial contributions compared to other specialties, many of whom earn far more for far less.

You, as a doctor, are only as valuable to the hospital as the lowest price tag of the physician behind you looking for the same job.
That's why we (collectively) need to stop accepting jobs or signing insurance contracts that have us working for peanuts.
 

JackADeli

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FP income to hospital revenue ratio ~ 10x
IM income to hospital revenue ratio ~ 9x
GS income to hospital revenue ratio ~ 6.5x
NS income to hospital revenue ratio ~ 5x
GI income to hospital revenue ratio ~ 3.7x
I probably wrote it wrong... always get these things backwards....

hospital revenue to FP income ratio ~ 10x
hospital revenue to IM income ratio ~ 9x
hospital revenue to GS income ratio ~ 6.5x
hospital revenue to NS income ratio ~ 5x
hospital revenue to GI income ratio ~ 3.7x
 

JackADeli

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...That's why we (collectively) need to stop accepting jobs or signing insurance contracts that have us working for peanuts.
I didn't want to repost whole thing, but you may be interested in looking at it... though suspect you may already have seen it:
If you care about your profession, you should be politically aware/active. Keeping quiet to yourself will just allow others to make decisions for us - that's how we got in this problem in the first place. Anyway, here's the health care bill, point by point:...
 
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raptor5

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Actually, the most interesting thing about the table is how much less FM and IM are compensated relative to their financial contributions compared to other specialties, many of whom earn far more for far less.
Sorry but this smells like the labor theory of value. I thought that died with Marxism.
 

GoodmanBrown

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Sorry but this smells like the labor theory of value. I thought that died with Marxism.
I agree with Blue Dog. The labor theory of value is that the more labor a commodity took to make, the more expensive it should be. Blue Dog is simply saying that the more revenue a person brings in to the hospital, the more they should be paid.
 

JackADeli

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...That's capitalism at its finest. ...It's plain ol' dollars and cents.
Yep, you work, you generate a good/service, the goods/services are sold, a revenue is received.... and it is then distributed amongst the "generators". The hospitals provide an infrastructure which allows you to produce the goods/services.... thus they clearly get a cut to cover the infrastructure (buildings/equipment/personel/etc....) costs and get profit too... In essence, the hospital represents factory overhead.

Long and short, question is should the direct "generator" receive more of the total revenues. I say yes. We as a physicians incurr greater risks and/or invest proportionally more. Our risks include infection/injury and/or financial. Our investments include the training to get to the point of working as well as continued labor and on-call, etc....

One can try to twist this into Marxism if they like, I think it is capitalism. Just as an artist or actor can ask increasing levels of income for their work... though the studio may invest heavily and take risks in production costs, etc.....

JAD
 

Bakfiets

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NOTE: these aren't salaries, of course...though some in the thread are talking as though these are salaries. They are just how much money the hospital makes from the different specialties. Wouldn't expect FM to generate hospital revenues.
 

EdibleEgg

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I'm not sure I understand your statement. Why wouldn't you expect FM to generate hospital revenue?
 

Blue Dog

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The point is, generalists (whether FM or IM) drive a lot more revenue to facilities than their meager incomes would suggest. IMO, they deserve a bigger piece of the pie.
 

JackADeli

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...question is should the direct "generator" receive more of the total revenues. I say yes. We as a physicians incurr greater risks and/or invest proportionally more. Our risks include infection/injury and/or financial. Our investments include the training to get to the point of working as well as continued labor and on-call, etc....
The point is, generalists (whether FM or IM) drive a lot more revenue to facilities than their meager incomes would suggest. IMO, they deserve a bigger piece of the pie.
Agreed.