SliceNDice

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If one was to go out on their own and start their own psychiatry practice, how much would be a reasonable salary range assuming that the practice is well managed and operating smoothly. I know that's a tough questions but ballpark numbers would be great.
 

nitemagi

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Where and serving whom? Insurance or cash? Meds only or therapy plus meds? Solo or with staff?
 
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SliceNDice

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Let's say in California, Santa Barbara or Santa Cruz area. Insurance or cash, not sure now. I'd say solo and therapy plus meds
 
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Mad Jack

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If one was to go out on their own and start their own psychiatry practice, how much would be a reasonable salary range assuming that the practice is well managed and operating smoothly. I know that's a tough questions but ballpark numbers would be great.
There's no real range. It all depends on you. 15 minute cash-only med checks are going to net you completely different net income than 1 hour insurance-based therapy sessions. Most of the people I've talked to in private practice earn around 250k, +/- 50k.
 
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SliceNDice

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There's no real range. It all depends on you. 15 minute cash-only med checks are going to net you completely different net income than 1 hour insurance-based therapy sessions. Most of the people I've talked to in private practice earn around 250k, +/- 50k.
I'd ideally like to do the longer therapy sessions. How does that compare in terms of income w/ the fast med checks?
 

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I'd ideally like to do the longer therapy sessions. How does that compare in terms of income w/ the fast med checks?
Cash only in the right areas can make bank. Guy near me charges $400+/hr for therapy sessions. Insurance and medicare/caid coverage for therapy will be significantly lower if they reimburse for it at all. Emphasis on the "being in the right area" part as you won't make anything if none of your patients can't afford your rates.
 
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SliceNDice

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Cash only in the right areas can make bank. Guy near me charges $400+/hr for therapy sessions. Insurance and medicare/caid coverage for therapy will be significantly lower if they reimburse for it at all. Emphasis on the "being in the right area" part as you won't make anything if none of your patients can't afford your rates.
If you're comfortable with the question, where are you located where a psychiatrist local to you can charge that much? I currently live in Santa Barbara and would like to eventually practice either here, or my hometown which is Santa Cruz
 

Mad Jack

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I'd ideally like to do the longer therapy sessions. How does that compare in terms of income w/ the fast med checks?
Med checks tend to let people earn more if they run things like a well-oiled machine. Only way long therapy sessions tend to pay well is if you're doing PP/Cash only, and then your rate is going to depend on how good you personally are and how reliable and well-paying your clientele is.
 

Mad Jack

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If you're comfortable with the question, where are you located where a psychiatrist local to you can charge that much? I currently live in Santa Barbara and would like to eventually practice either here, or my hometown which is Santa Cruz
The thing is, you can hang a shingle up and charge whatever, but people are only going to pay it if you've got the skills to back it up. Usually you're going to have to start out charging something more reasonable, rates like that tend to go to well established providers in wealthy areas who are highly recommended. Rates like that are quite uncommon.
 
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SliceNDice

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Med checks tend to let people earn more if they run things like a well-oiled machine. Only way long therapy sessions tend to pay well is if you're doing PP/Cash only, and then your rate is going to depend on how good you personally are and how reliable and well-paying your clientele is.
Idk if this is a dumb question, but are you able to do cash only for therapy sessions and insurance for med checks? Do kinda the best of both worlds?
 

Mad Jack

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Idk if this is a dumb question, but are you able to do cash only for therapy sessions and insurance for med checks? Do kinda the best of both worlds?
Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but here's how I understand it: You couldn't see the same patients for both. You'd have to have basically separate your patients into two practices (a la the many people who have a day job and do PP psychotherapy on the side for cash until the side job gains enough traction to support them fully).
 

hamstergang

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I'd ideally like to do the longer therapy sessions. How does that compare in terms of income w/ the fast med checks?
You're not even in med school yet, right? I think you're worrying about some details way too soon.
 
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SliceNDice

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You're not even in med school yet, right? I think you're worrying about some details way too soon.
Lol I know but I'm just trying to feel out career options and see what I can expect from different directions
 
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Stagg737

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If you're comfortable with the question, where are you located where a psychiatrist local to you can charge that much? I currently live in Santa Barbara and would like to eventually practice either here, or my hometown which is Santa Cruz
It's the wealthiest suburb of a Midwest city with a population between 250k and 2 million. As Mad Jack said, you have to have some way of attracting the patients willing to dish out that kind of money. For some it's extensive experience, for others it's a lot of referrals/reputation, for the guy I know of I think it's that he advertises that he did his residency at Harvard (although he is apparently very good at psychotherapy).
 

Armadillos

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Lol I know but I'm just trying to feel out career options and see what I can expect from different directions
Not unreasonable to know a back of envelope idea of what your getting into before getting loans for medschool, but you really don't need to worry about specifics.

Probably all you need to know is that any psychiatrist who wants to can find a job paying >200k if they are flexible on practice setting and it's rare for a psychiatrist to break 280k unless they are doing something special or own a successful private practice.
 

michaelrack

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and it's rare for a psychiatrist to break 280k unless they are doing something special or own a successful private practice.
or willing to work at least 40 hrs a week and do occasional call.
 
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Blitz2006

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Not unreasonable to know a back of envelope idea of what your getting into before getting loans for medschool, but you really don't need to worry about specifics.

Probably all you need to know is that any psychiatrist who wants to can find a job paying >200k if they are flexible on practice setting and it's rare for a psychiatrist to break 280k unless they are doing something special or own a successful private practice.
Rare? I'm getting railed with job offers at 300k. 40 hrs a week, outpatient, inpatient and a mix.

300k is the new standard for 40 hr wks. I read in these boards that Kaiser SF and LA also pay 300k.

Here in NYC the rate for pp is $300 hr. Lots of customers in a city of 10 million...

If you play your cards right in pp in NYC, you can do an easy 400-500k.
 
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sluox

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This question literally CONSTANTLY comes up in this forum. I'm of the belief that psychiatry if done right is one of the cushiest specialties in all of medicine. However, if you are looking at just a median salary number whatever listed above is around the ballpark. The great variation of lifestyle/compensation even within the same region (i.e. NYC/Southern California), not in frequently in the 50-100% range, is one reason one almost never gets a consistent answer for a question like this. In psychiatry the variation in salary/lifestyle can often be as great as variations between different specialties. TYPICALLY tho people work LESS than the average physician in this field.
 

Blitz2006

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This question literally CONSTANTLY comes up in this forum. I'm of the belief that psychiatry if done right is one of the cushiest specialties in all of medicine. However, if you are looking at just a median salary number whatever listed above is around the ballpark. The great variation of lifestyle/compensation even within the same region (i.e. NYC/Southern California), not in frequently in the 50-100% range, is one reason one almost never gets a consistent answer for a question like this. In psychiatry the variation in salary/lifestyle can often be as great as variations between different specialties. TYPICALLY tho people work LESS than the average physician in this field.
This is correct.

Medscape surveys show that 70% of Psychiatrists work less than. 40 hrs a week.

That's why Medscape salary surveys are poorly representative when it shows psych in bottom 5...
 

Ahamis

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Rare? I'm getting railed with job offers at 300k. 40 hrs a week, outpatient, inpatient and a mix.

300k is the new standard for 40 hr wks.
Unfortunately, my experience has been different. 300k is not the standard in my scenario. It is probably because I need H1-b visa sponsorship.
In my case, positions that pay around 300K are mix position. You see an entire unit in the morning and see outpatient in the afternoon.
 

SteinUmStein

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While there are plenty of "job offers" (i.e. recruiters aggressively spamming) in the 300k range, from what I've seen these positions either include a fair amount of call and/or high volume work and/or less desirable locations (not always rural, but often places struggling to find/keep physicians). For employed positions without call, with lower volume/intensity workload, in desirable areas, 300k is not necessary to recruit and keep quality psychiatrists. More realistic numbers for these positions seems to be low to mid 200k range, again varying significantly by region and benefits, etc.
 
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SmallBird

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Unfortunately, my experience has been different. 300k is not the standard in my scenario. It is probably because I need H1-b visa sponsorship.
In my case, positions that pay around 300K are mix position. You see an entire unit in the morning and see outpatient in the afternoon.
That's not why. Many of the recruiter jobs sent around that are paying 300k are quite desperate and are offering those salaries and a willingness to sponsor an H1b.

I think that the workload you describe is however pretty typical for jobs paying this much, but hardly unmanageable. If it's 8 inpatients and about 3 hours of outpatient work that could be a 40 week and should get you to 300k. I've not seen many jobs offering 300k just to cover +\- 10 inpatients.
 
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Ahamis

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While there are plenty of "job offers" (i.e. recruiters aggressively spamming) in the 300k range, from what I've seen these positions either include a fair amount of call and/or high volume work and/or less desirable locations (not always rural, but often places struggling to find/keep physicians). For employed positions without call, with lower volume/intensity workload, in desirable areas, 300k is not necessary to recruit and keep quality psychiatrists. More realistic numbers for these positions seems to be low to mid 200k range, again varying significantly by region and benefits, etc.
That has been my experience so far.
 

sluox

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For employed positions without call, with lower volume/intensity workload, in desirable areas, 300k is not necessary to recruit and keep quality psychiatrists. More realistic numbers for these positions seems to be low to mid 200k range, again varying significantly by region and benefits, etc.
But this wasn't the question tho. The constant barrage of questions on this forum is almost always HOW MUCH MONEY CAN I MAKE IN *PRIVATE PRACTICE*. We all know already how much money you make in an employed position. Check MGMA. My point is that the very question is ridiculous. In private practice, median ANNUAL salary is probably really meaningless because the variation in terms of the total number of HOURS can reach 50-100% (i.e. from 15 hours a week to 30-40 hours a week). It's more like median $ per hour you charge.
 
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SteinUmStein

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But this wasn't the question tho. The constant barrage of questions on this forum is almost always HOW MUCH MONEY CAN I MAKE IN *PRIVATE PRACTICE*. We all know already how much money you make in an employed position. Check MGMA. My point is that the very question is ridiculous. In private practice, median ANNUAL salary is probably really meaningless because the variation in terms of the total number of HOURS can reach 50-100% (i.e. from 15 hours a week to 30-40 hours a week). It's more like median $ per hour you charge.
Great point. I guess I was replying to the responses/comments above and less to the initial post/question. I think your point is one that gets missed, that you could charge $x per hour and project out an "annual salary" of some big number - I've seen $400k-500k thrown around here - but that's imaginary money until you or someone you pay gets those patients in the door consistently, during your desired work hours, bills, and collects a sufficient portion from the relevant payor(s).
 
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