How much does PA school miss out on medical school

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What you should do is stop being automatically standoffish when it comes to this topic. From the very start of your time on this thread you have been aggressive and pushing an agenda and that’s the least effective way to get any of us to listen to you.


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I think nurses are done trying to get physicians to listen. For the entirety of our existence, we've been trying to get physicians to listen. If you wan't a conversation, then let's do it without physicians throwing tons of insults about how useless nursing education is and how we don't matter. Until then, you won't see the nursing lobby, and the gambit for independent practice slow down anytime soon.

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Never applied.
It's not too late, since what you really seem to want to do is become a physician. Just devote all the time you spend arguing on the internet to MCAT studying and taking pre-reqs.
 
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I think nurses are done trying to get physicians to listen. For the entirety of our existence, we've been trying to get physicians to listen. If you wan't a conversation, then let's do it without physicians throwing tons of insults about how useless nursing education is and how we don't matter. Until then, you won't see the nursing lobby, and the gambit for independent practice slow down anytime soon.

Bro, everyone has readily acknowledged the dire need and usefulness of nurses on every level (LPN to Nurse practitioners). No one here has anything against nurses. Most everyone here has something against equally weighting an online doctorate for NPs with a real Doctorate for Osteopathic/Allopathic Medicine +pity++pity++pity+
 
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It's not too late, since what you really seem to want to do is become a physician. Just devote all the time you spend arguing on the internet to MCAT studying and taking pre-reqs.

Eh, I enjoy being an NP. Can practice independently in primary care where I'm at and pretty much practice in any specialty I choose. As a physician, you get confined to one area. Though, I've thought about applying someday to do general surgery. I would like to do that.
 
Eh, I enjoy being an NP. Can practice independently in primary care where I'm at and pretty much practice in any specialty I choose. As a physician, you get confined to one area. Though, I've thought about applying someday to do general surgery. I would like to do that.

You're setting the bar too low.. You've got the personality for ortho :whistle:
 
Well then I truly fear for the future of healthcare in this country. If you think that it is acceptable for nursing and medicine to be separate fields I want you nowhere near patients. The marriage between nursing and medicine is vital to how healthcare functions and lobbying otherwise is dangerous.


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Realistically, the nursing profession and medicine will always be tied. But you just have to stop being an abusive, jerk of a husband! :laugh:
 
So every one in healthcare that holds a doctorate (e.g., physical therapist, pharmacists, etc.) are basically posers in your eyes and should go to medical school. Sorry, but you guys are not the only experts out there. There are other professionals in healthcare, including nursing, that can broaden their education and become experts in their own right. This is an elitist thing, and has nothing to do with patient safety or genuine concern on your part.

Hands down. You are saying that NP education is equivalent to MD/DO education; otherwise, you would not make statements like this. Stop the bullsh****
 
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When NPs were invented, it was little more than a certificate program.

Sure hasn't changed much

, but physicians have been acting as the only chief for too long.

That's because we are the only ones qualified enough.

Until physicians concede to the fact that nursing are equal players in healthcare

No. You want equality? Then get the same education.

Then you and I, or any other nurse will have nothing to really talk about.

There are hoards of nurses who would completely disagree with what you have expressed in this thread.
 
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Eh, I enjoy being an NP. Can practice independently in primary care where I'm at and pretty much practice in any specialty I choose. As a physician, you get confined to one area. Though, I've thought about applying someday to do general surgery. I would like to do that.

Earlier this thread you said you only had a Masters in Nursing. If you're going to troll and bs, you should prob get your story straight first.
 
Earlier this thread you said you only had a Masters in Nursing. If you're going to troll and bs, you should prob get your story straight first.

You haven't read the whole thread then. I never claimed to have a DNP. In fact, I even repeated that not too long ago. Let me say it again. I am a MSN defending the value of a DNP. I am not a DNP.
 
Sure hasn't changed much



That's because we are the only ones qualified enough.



No. You want equality? Then get the same education.



There are hoards of nurses who would completely disagree with what you have expressed in this thread.

Most nurses actually would agree with most of the statements I've made. Many just keep silent for fear of reprisal. And nurses with doctorates do not need to be medical doctors to have a seat at the table, so to speak. As the experts in medical care implementation and healthcare delivery, we deserve equal respect and consideration when it comes to how healthcare is ran in this country, and with any decisions that directly impact how nurses deliver care. Nurses have their own terminal degree (i.e., PhD and DNP) and bodies of authority. You (physicians) are no the only ones qualified enough to run healthcare in this country, as it is a collaborative thing. Until that attitude changes, I am telling you, we will never see a copacetic relationship between our two professions.
 
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Hands down. You are saying that NP education is equivalent to MD/DO education; otherwise, you would not make statements like this. Stop the bullsh****

Hey buddy, cursing is not allowed here on SDN. And no, I didn't say that we have equivalent education. We both study many different subject matter and come from very different philosophies and schools of thought. But what I am saying is that nurses deserve equal respect because what we bring to the table in healthcare is equally important. Without us, you have nothing.
 
Most nurses actually would agree with most of the statements I've made.

My wife is a nurse, she openly laughed when I showed her what you had posted. I had a job where I directly worked with dozens of nurses, and double digit NPs and was on a first name basis with all of them. They would all openly disagree with what you are saying, trust me, we had many a conversation on those long shifts.

Nurses have their own terminal degree (i.e., PhD and DNP)

You have a degree that you created. The degree adds nothing to your education of medical care and how to treat patients and disease. I have personally seen the curriculum at more than one DNP program and it is shockingly scarce in medical science. Chalk full of bs nursing theory classes though.
You (physicians) are no the only ones qualified enough to run healthcare in this country, as it is a collaborative thing. Until that attitude changes,

Nurses definitely deserve a seat at the table, they just don't have the credentials to be at the head of it.
 
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My wife is a nurse, she openly laughed when I showed her what you had posted. I had a job where I directly worked with dozens of nurses, and double digit NPs and was on a first name basis with all of them. They would all openly disagree with what you are saying, trust me, we had many a conversation on those long shifts.



You have a degree that you created. The degree adds nothing to your education of medical care and how to treat patients and disease. I have personally seen the curriculum at more than one DNP program and it is shockingly scarce in medical science. Chalk full of bs nursing theory classes though.


Nurses definitely deserve a seat at the table, they just don't have the credentials to be at the head of it.

Then those nurses, including your wife, are not looking out for their best interest and are just working to earn a paycheck. Nursing def. needs PhD and DNPs. Nurses that are actually interested in advancing our profession and improving care for patients from the perspective of nursing would agree that we need to advance our own profession. So for starters, we need more doctorally prepared nurses that understand epidemiology, research, statistics, etc. I don't see how those courses are useless and noncontributory to a more scholastic nurse. Nursing theory also is not useless. Do you understand the role that nursing theory has? Probably not or you wouldn't be saying that. Most people don't. However nursing theory basically is what creates nurse scientists. It teaches nurses how to formulate research proposals and develop care delivery models. Jean Watson is an excellent example of a contemporary nursing theorist who has helped advance the profession of nursing as a nurse theorist and develop care delivery models that many healthcare systems use throughout the nation. Having quality nursing care is central to optimal outcomes, which whether you realize it or not, is impacted in some form or another by one of those "bs nursing theories."
 
My wife is a nurse, she openly laughed when I showed her what you had posted. I had a job where I directly worked with dozens of nurses, and double digit NPs and was on a first name basis with all of them. They would all openly disagree with what you are saying, trust me, we had many a conversation on those long shifts.



You have a degree that you created. The degree adds nothing to your education of medical care and how to treat patients and disease. I have personally seen the curriculum at more than one DNP program and it is shockingly scarce in medical science. Chalk full of bs nursing theory classes though.


Nurses definitely deserve a seat at the table, they just don't have the credentials to be at the head of it.

Wow this escalated quickly. Medical Doctor is a degree of US creation. In most counties physicians have a Bachelor's degree in medicine, which is the terminal degree for practice.
 
Wow this escalated quickly. Medical Doctor is a degree of US creation. In most counties physicians have a Bachelor's degree in medicine, which is the terminal degree for practice.

MD stands for Doctor of Medicine and Scotland was the first country to grant MDs. The MD degree exists in many other countries and is recognized universally.

I wonder how many people in any random street on any random country know what a DNP is
 
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MD stands for Doctor of Medicine and Scotland was the first country to grant MDs. The MD degree exists in many other countries and is recognized universally.

I wonder how many people in any random street on any random country know what a DNP is

Nurse practitioners are being developed in several other countries holding a minimum degree of a masters for entry. Soon enough, the DNP will be developed in those countries as well, but for now, they are exploring and learning the value of the nurse practitioner which is good enough for right now...And just so you guys know, I've been silenced by the moderator of this thread. I know longer will be able to reply. Until next time on some other thread....
 
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Then those nurses, including your wife, are not looking out for their best interest

So are you looking out for your best interest or the interest of the patients? Because you've now said both at various times in this thread.

Wow this escalated quickly. Medical Doctor is a degree of US creation. In most counties physicians have a Bachelor's degree in medicine, which is the terminal degree for practice.

lol you chose that to make a ridiculously stupid comment about? It doesn't matter what it is called, the content of the degree is the same across the world, whether it is an MD, MBBS, (US)DO, or some other name it is recognized as the terminal medical degree that recognizes the holder as an expert in medical diagnosis and treatment. The DNP degree does not make anyone an expert in anything of value. It is not recognized across the world. The clinical acumen of a DNP is not greater than that of a masters level NP, there is no additional knowledge being gained. Blix has admitted in this thread that the degree was created to "advance the profession of nursing" and to "give authority." It is a whiny creation meant to lie to the average patient about who is actually treating them and what their knowledge is, and to attempt to confuse lawmakers into how much (i.e. How little) education they actually have. The leadership of the nursing world have a very clear agenda.
 
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At least osteopaths got their stuff together when criticized and created a curriculum equal to allopathy. Even today (100 years later) there's still residual stigma in the most competitive fields. It's laughable to think DNPs (with inferior education) will have the same respect/authority as a true medical doctor
 
Then those nurses, including your wife, are not looking out for their best interest and are just working to earn a paycheck. Nursing def. needs PhD and DNPs. Nurses that are actually interested in advancing our profession and improving care for patients from the perspective of nursing would agree that we need to advance our own profession. So for starters, we need more doctorally prepared nurses that understand epidemiology, research, statistics, etc. I don't see how those courses are useless and noncontributory to a more scholastic nurse. Nursing theory also is not useless. Do you understand the role that nursing theory has? Probably not or you wouldn't be saying that. Most people don't. However nursing theory basically is what creates nurse scientists. It teaches nurses how to formulate research proposals and develop care delivery models. Jean Watson is an excellent example of a contemporary nursing theorist who has helped advance the profession of nursing as a nurse theorist and develop care delivery models that many healthcare systems use throughout the nation. Having quality nursing care is central to optimal outcomes, which whether you realize it or not, is impacted in some form or another by one of those "bs nursing theories."

Again you make an argument based solely on nurses looking out for their own with zero regard given to what it actually does for patients. You can spare us the nurse theory and nurse scientist jibber jabber. It’s a self centered degree that adds little to the field and is there because like most unions the nursing union got out of hand and now holds too much say and will absolutely not let any of it go.


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Until physicians concede to the fact that nursing are equal players in healthcare, then we won't get anywhere with this discussion. I already explained to you the value of the DNP, so not going to repeat myself on that one.
Equal players? Are we going to a casino or practicing medicine, cause if we aren't in Vegas at the slots, DNP is nowhere near DO/MD. Lol, I am shocked you haven't been banned yet for trolling. As a former nurse, I am surprised when I run into the attitudes of my colleagues in graduate nursing programs. Have we really dumbed down nursing to the point where people aren't even remotely cogniscent of what they don't know and are not recieving for training? Posts like yours, especially in other threads make me believe so. Did you really learn nothing from @Mad Jack's quiz that you failed terribly?

Its not an us versus them issue, its a scope of training and practice. I didn't believe it before, but now I can see now that it is indeed the nurses, graduate level and wannabe advanced, pushing the tribe mentality. You feel disrespected? Its cause you say ignorant things, like a DNP is equivalent to a Medical degree.

Funny, I expressed that same sentiment in nursing school (that a DNP is like an MD cause of nurse experience/length of training etc) over a decade ago, and my advanced practice faculty corrected me real fast. I guess with the proliferation of nursing schools like bunnies, they just leave that part out now. Combined with hyperagressive recruits who want to 'skip' straight to advanced practice and expect to be treated like doctors without doing the time or training and you get what we have.

As someone with more experience than the average FNP grad, now that I am in medical school, I see just how little my years of critical care nursing help build the knowledge base needed to practice medicine (and I was certified!). Nurses have a surface understanding of pathology, can't work up a differential worth a lick, and are generally trained to recognize 'crashing' and trying to prevent it over everything else. A nurses job, while very important, does not train to be a physician, and people who push that kind of nonsense are promoting malpractice and patient harm.

If you wanted to claim DNP = PA, I agree depending on the background and especially the school. But DNP = MD/DO, no way. Just because politicians say you can do something (independent practice) doesn't mean that you are actually competent to do so.
 
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someone was rejected from multiple med schools :ninja::ninja:
Dude, no, most FNPs have no interest in med school due to length of time and sacrifice. FNP is a lot easier to get into, can be done while your working and is generally better for people with families. The average nursing matriculate at my old nursing school was over 26. Nursing still has a lot of people doing it as a second career. Different demographics.
 
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Then you and I, or any other nurse will have nothing to really talk about. There will always be discord between our two professions, and nursing will always and forever continue to seek it's own path away from medicine. At least I know I will. I will lead the next generation, and get politically involved to take nursing even further than it has. Until then, we will continue to take our progress in strides.

This mentality is idiotic and will probably end up killing people. This isn't a social justice issue.

But just for the record, I do get the physician not respecting nurses thing, it does happen, and its not always justified. Every physician faculty does pay a lot of lip service to respecting nurses, but in the end, they only respect 'their nurses.' And it does annoy me a bit when they ask if anyone has prior EMT or Paramedic experience like that is the only thing there is (this happens on a weekly basis at my school). Even so, you can't use that 'disrespect' to justify a outcome that would lower patient care (and I don't care about the 'same outcomes' from poorly conducted ancient studies when FNPs where not allowed to practice independently with small sample sizes, so don't even bother). The only reason independent practice for NP's exist is lobbying and cheap cost, anyone who says differently is lying.

The funny thing is the mentality you have and are promoting is the main cause of the disrespect, and not any of the other things you listed (disdain for education etc.). More recent advanced practice nurses (CRNA's included, and maybe even especially) have much more disrespect for their physicians colleagues than they should. And when Physicians respond in kind they get mad. The other thing is you are conflating respect = scope/money. Yeah that might be true for the hood, but it doesn't fly in healthcare. If you have less training, you have less scope for good reason. Respect and scope are not related and not the same.
 
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No you're wrong again. There is nothing unethical about comparing two practices head to head. There are already plenty of independent nurse led practices out there? So why don't we see physician led studies comparing them? It's because they are afraid of what the results will be and an argument made from ignorance is better than from nothing at all.
Lol...
 
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I am shocked a lot of you guys are not banned. I was banned for 3-4 wks for saying... post #37

Advise on NP route

I guess the moderators are not consistent.
You did say that in the NP thread, and calling NP's 'wannabe doctors' is pretty insulting. I imagine the mods might be a bit different there. The funny thing is FNP Blix doesn't sound crazy in that thread. I actually agree with his/her advice on picking an FNP school.
 
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Until physicians concede to the fact that nursing are equal players in healthcare, then we won't get anywhere with this discussion. I already explained to you the value of the DNP, so not going to repeat myself on that one.
What does that even mean? Are CNA/LPN equal players in healthcare as well? If no, why not?
 
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I am shocked a lot of you guys are not banned. I was banned for 3-4 wks for saying... post #37

Advise on NP route

I guess the moderators are not consistent.

If I get banned for saying what I've said in this thread then so be it. I take nothing back.
 
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I am shocked a lot of you guys are not banned. I was banned for 3-4 wks for saying... post #37
Advise on NP route
I guess the moderators are not consistent.

Well... your posts in that forum probably piss off a lot of nurses and NPs. Let's not forget that home court disadvantage when they put your offense in front of the judicial council where the majority of the moderators are NURSES. Most of those nurse moderators probably share the same beliefs themselves.
 
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No, we don't claim to have equivalent knowledge. Advance practice nurses (i.e., CRNAs, NP, CNM) do however have the ability to practice just as safely and efficaciously as physicians in many specialties generating similar outcomes.

What specialties?
 
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and pretty much practice in any specialty I choose. As a physician, you get confined to one area. Though, I've thought about applying someday to do general surgery. I would like to do that.
Your post just hammers home the point that an inferior knowledge of multiple fields of medicine is nowhere near the level of the physician who is "confined" (read: competent) in their particular field.

You are undermining your own point by pointing out that NPs can freely float around various specialties, because it's easy when you don't know what you're doing. The phrase most relevant in discussions like this: "you don't know what you don't know"
 
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If you think that is clear, then I understand why none of this makes sense to you. I know for a fact >50% of the patients I’ve seen would wonder if you were a nurse or a physician because you used the word “doctor”. Hence the reason the PhD’s at my medical school go out of their way to not confuse patients with their title. But then again, none of this is about the patient. It’s about a male nurse needing his ego stroked.
Even as a clinician I confused an audiologist with a physician when I first started because he was running around in a white coat calling himself doctor. Nearly cost one of my patients their life, as he was pushing way too hard on a speaking valve trial and I thought he was the attending physician.
 
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I think that after x amount of years as a scribe there should be a "Scribe Practitioner" bridge program.
 
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Idk why are you guys even arguing with a nurse. I would never trust one to do a physician job.

To @CaptainJackSparrow83, I'm working with a PA student this month. She's pretty good at charting and do adequate H&P for billings, but is absolutely abysmal when it comes to management. Her school is a 2 year program with first year comprises of only books and second year is mainly outpatient rotations. When she passes the state license board after May next year (her school has 98% pass rate), she will be free to apply for any job that takes PA and she's heading to EM, which is starting $90k+. This girl knows less than a third year medical student, but will be making more than a resident. Heck, I was teaching her what dysdiodochokinesia is and why give IV Vancomycin/cefotaxime to a 5 year old with meningitis.
 
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Idk why are you guys even arguing with a nurse. I would never trust one to do a physician job.

To @CaptainJackSparrow83, I'm working with a PA student this month. She's pretty good at charting and do adequate H&P for billings, but is absolutely abysmal when it comes to management. Her school is a 2 year program with first year comprises of only books and second year is mainly outpatient rotations. When she passes the state license board after May next year (her school has 98% pass rate), she will be free to apply for any job that takes PA and she's heading to EM, which is starting $90k+. This girl knows less than a third year medical student, but will be making more than a resident. Heck, I was teaching her what dysdiodochokinesia is and why give IV Vancomycin/cefotaxime to a 5 year old with meningitis.

seems like a pretty lucrative career for me.
I had a friend who said CRNA's out in silicon valley made around 150-180 k as an end of career salary. Remind me why I am doing medicine again?
 
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seems like a pretty lucrative career for me.
I had a friend who said CRNA's out in silicon valley made around 150-180 k as an end of career salary. Remind me why I am doing medicine again?

180k in Silicon Valley isn't going to go very far..

250k starting out as a family physician in a rural area is far more appealing
 
180k in Silicon Valley isn't going to go very far..

250k starting out as a family physician in a rural area is far more appealing

Depends on your life style. If you want a brand new car every few years and home ownership and kids, 180 is decent. Ive got numerous friends earning between 90-120 thousand and they all get by pretty well. A 2 bedroom top notch luxury home is about 3000/month. So deduct 36,000 (this is a high end estimate honestly) from your salary and the rest is your take home savings.
You have a high chance of finding a S/O who nets the same amount as you .

I mentioned in another post Im born into a millionaire family yet all I need to make myself happy is a memory foam bed, gaming computer+desktop and a car with bluetooth. In an area with so many things to do, your home doesnt matter too much. As far as kids go, I would never have any, just not worth the financial investment and risk factor.
tbh im at a DO school somewhere in the midwest/south depending on what you want to call it. I have a pretty large house I am renting and I am probably the most depressed I have ever been and finally owning up to it. Why? Because theres virtually nothing to do here . This past summer I went out to the beach, to lakes, to the city, to various restaurants, a trip to LA, all within my home state. I dont have much to do here unfortunately.

If I could have my dream life it would be an apartment in California, somehow making a decent living at home, 90 -100 k, with my gaming computer, my girlfriend, and a dog.
 
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So much anxiety since page 1.

Like I said in a previous thread, I regret wasting so many hours being threatened by the growth of PA and NPs. They aren't physicians, and I don't sense it is their goal to try and replace physicians (yes, even CRNAs). The bigger 'enemy' is insurance and the hospital overlords who are in medicine to exploit anyone and everyone. It is advised that physicians pick their battles carefully as the mid-levels aren't going anywhere.

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Is anyone considering doing Direct Primary Care? I am thinking about doing it a few years after residency. No midlevels, no insurance. But of course I am not sure yet.
 
Im pretty heavily focused on doing some sort of primary care as it is at a DO school.
For me when I observe other specialties I see
1) Too Difficult to get/ do : Neurosurgery, Orthopedics, Dermatology
2) Very repetitive : General Surgery
3) I dont like kids = no pediatrics

totally irrelevant, but any field in medicine is "very repetitive". if you do primary care, you will see hypertension and diabetes everyday. ruling out general surgery because of this reason is asinine.
 
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totally irrelevant, but any field in medicine is "very repetitive". if you do primary care, you will see hypertension and diabetes everyday. ruling out general surgery because of this reason is asinine.

With primary care you atleast get to see people besides your tech team in the OR every day and hear something interesting every now and then. I shadowed a gastric surgeon for a while and almost every day was the same procedure of colectomies or hernia repairs. Plus as a DO student I have taken my fate of having a high chance of ending up in primary care.
 
With primary care you atleast get to see people besides your tech team in the OR every day and hear something interesting every now and then. I shadowed a gastric surgeon for a while and almost every day was the same procedure of colectomies or hernia repairs. Plus as a DO student I have taken my fate of having a high chance of ending up in primary care.

???

you will see your same office staff everyday, so that's basically the same thing. plus, the fact that you shadowed a gastric surgeon tells me you must be in your preclinical years. wait until your surgery rotation and make a decision. every specialty has their bread and butter, including primary care.
 
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Is anyone considering doing Direct Primary Care? I am thinking about doing it a few years after residency. No midlevels, no insurance. But of course I am not sure yet.
I'm working with a concierge physician this month. I will say I'm learning more about medical business than practice. Don't underestimate how much risk and footwork it takes to be your own boss. My preceptor still has two side jobs to pay the overhead. There's a reason more physicians are just choosing employment.

Also, your patients must purchase at least some insurance for the model to work, so unless you're charitable, this only works for middle and upper class folks. The more prestigious specialties will continue to feed on insurance from your referrals.

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So much anxiety since page 1.

Like I said in a previous thread, I regret wasting so many hours being threatened by the growth of PA and NPs. They aren't physicians, and I don't sense it is their goal to try and replace physicians (yes, even CRNAs). The bigger 'enemy' is insurance and the hospital overlords who are in medicine to exploit anyone and everyone. It is advised that physicians pick their battles carefully as the mid-levels aren't going anywhere.

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You're delusional then. Every single piece of propaganda both of their organizations post is about how they're equal to physicians.
 
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???

you will see your same office staff everyday, so that's basically the same thing. plus, the fact that you shadowed a gastric surgeon tells me you must be in your preclinical years. wait until your surgery rotation and make a decision. every specialty has their bread and butter, including primary care.

Yeah of course Im going to give it time and see how the rotation goes but I still dont think my mind will change. You see your own office staff every day but you talk to living patients throughout your day in primary care where as surgery youre working with anatomy of a sleeping patient except for consults. And its competitive to even enter into.
 
You're delusional then. Every single piece of propaganda both of their organizations post is about how they're equal to physicians.
The tendency is to reactively see midlevel growth as a problem in it's own right rather than a symptom of a bigger problem which involves insurance, hospitals, and generic corporate greed. Who benefits the most from those attempts to undercut physicians? Definitely not mid-levels... At least not how I see it. They're undercutting physicians for what...more work and same or lower income, and still no formal training?

Maybe it's delusion, but I'd rather not spend more time on a 'problem' like this. The fact is that mid-levels aren't going anywhere and neither are physicians. I simply made the decision to not feel threatened and choose a different enemy.

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The tendency is to reactively see midlevel growth as a problem in it's own right rather than a symptom of a bigger problem which involves insurance, hospitals, and generic corporate greed.

Maybe it's delusion, but I'd rather not spend more time on a 'problem' like this. The fact is that mid-levels aren't going anywhere and neither are physicians. I simply made the decision to not feel threatened and choose a different enemy.

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If things stay as they are now with respect to midlevels, it wouldn't be too bad. The concern is that they're rapidly increasing their numbers relative to physicians and are increasingly demanding - and achieving - expanded scope of practice. I don't encourage anyone to obsess over midlevels, but ignoring them altogether doesn't seem wise either.
 
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You see your own office staff every day but you talk to living patients throughout your day in primary care where as surgery youre working with anatomy of a sleeping patient except for consults

The more you post the more I think you have literally no understanding of how medicine is run or how it works.
 
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