How much does the interview count in admittance to a surgical residency?

[IcedTea]

I've heard from some people that the interview doesn't really count much when trying to gain a surgical residency position; these people say that grades (class grades, board scores, etc.) count more.

Vice versa, some people say the interview has some considerable weight because that is when interviewers can weed out people and determine who really has the passion for surgery.

So when vying for a surgical residency position, how much weight does the interview really carry?

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[ExtraCrispy]

I've heard from some people that the interview doesn't really count much when trying to gain a surgical residency position; these people say that grades (class grades, board scores, etc.) count more.

Vice versa, some people say the interview has some considerable weight because that is when interviewers can weed out people and determine who really has the passion for surgery.

So when vying for a surgical residency position, how much weight does the interview really carry?

Who suggested to you that it didn't count?

That's really bullox. The people interviewing you are the attendings who'll be training you for the next 5-7 years. They have a vested interest in selecting people they think are capable - you're the one on whom they'll be counting to act responsibly for their patient when things go south in the middle of the night.

If they meet you during the interview, and sense that they can't trust you or won't get along with you, or that you're not committed, you can be sure it will make a difference in how you're ranked. The reverse of this scenario is also true.

 

[purplefish]

Who suggested to you that it didn't count?

That's really bullox. The people interviewing you are the attendings who'll be training you for the next 5-7 years. They have a vested interest in selecting people they think are capable - you're the one on whom they'll be counting to act responsibly for their patient when things go south in the middle of the night.

If they meet you during the interview, and sense that they can't trust you or won't get along with you, or that you're not committed, you can be sure it will make a difference in how you're ranked. The reverse of this scenario is also true.

I agree with the other poster. I interviewed at a broad range of programs. In addition many programs wanted to know that besides loving surgery etc why I wanted to attend their program. Attendings want to know that you will be invested in their program as a whole; they are usually past questioning if you like surgery.

 

[maxheadroom]

No better way to kill an applicant at our ranking meeting is to say, "S/he just seemed a bit off. Not quite right. Didn't fit in." Step 1 270? Don't care. AOA? Too bad. Great LORs? Let them have him.

We had an interviewee this year who was Step 1 273, Jr AOA, published, and had great letters. He freaked everybody out. He earned the nickname "The Serial Killer". He matched, but not at my place.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Absolutely. 5-7+ years is a long time to spend with someone you can't stand.

Programs definitely have "personalities" and while there are some weirdos who probably get screened out most every place, there are obviously those who make it through (as max's post shows). My program tended to have very personable residents so we trended toward that and preferred them over the stick in the mud or deadly dull candidates who otherwise had great numbers.

The interview can definitely boost someone with a weaker application and kill someone with a strong one. Its probably true that someone with stellar numbers will match somewhere, but being perceived as strange or outside the norm can hurt you, despite the academic cred.

 

[Castro Viejo]

So when vying for a surgical residency position, how much weight does the interview really carry?

Probably a lot more than most applicants realize. When I interviewed this past season, several applicants basically told me how much they believed that everything in residency should be spoon-fed, rounds didn't really need to start promptly at 6AM, and they intended to leave work by 4PM everyday.

"Well, this is why I want a community program."

Wrong answer. Really, really wrong.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Probably a lot more than most applicants realize. When I interviewed this past season, several applicants basically told me how much they believed that everything in residency should be spoon-fed, rounds didn't really need to start promptly at 6AM, and they intended to leave work by 4PM everyday.

"Well, this is why I want a community program."

Wrong answer. Really, really wrong.

You shoulda ranked them anyway just to teach them a lesson!

 

[Castro Viejo]

You shoulda ranked them anyway just to teach them a lesson!

It's really not worth the incessant whining that will result. But, I guess I should've really pushed hard for one of them. I'm out anyway.

 

[drtx]

One night, me and my friends were just surfing around the hospital computer system and found the excel list with the match list and comments. Yes, the people in the office are that dense- they put in in a public place.

But what was incredible were the comments from the interview made on that list...
"weird dude"
"mad scientist"
"white house intern" (I'm not sure if this was literal or a reference)

There were other funnier ones but I can't remember them...

The bottom line is : the interview really matters.

 

[jubb]

I wouldn't want to be at a program where the interview didn't matter. They are picking the people I have to work with everyday. I don't wanna work with a mad scientist, or the antisocial high board score guy. In seeing how people I know matched(although not just surgery), personalities matter.

 

[IcedTea]

Thanks for the replies everyone, very informative. Guess it does count a good amount then.

 

[DrDre311]

max--pretty sure I know which applicant you mean. Your point about the interview being the most important part of the process is well taken, but I know the guy and I feel compelled to point out that he's a brilliant, sharp, and really personable guy. He was very friendly and really helped me out a few times on the interview trail.

Maybe he just had an off day at your program but he matched to his first choice (a top-tier program). I didn't find out about his academic qualifications until after interview season but regardless I definitely would have been happy to have him as a co-resident. I will be extremely disappointed if he turns out to be a serial killer.

 

[DrDre311]

As far as the OP's question goes, when you submit your app certain criteria (Step I, AOA, LOR's, research) are used to decide whether a program wants to extend you an interview. Once you are at an interview, you are ostensibly on equal footing with every other interviewee--some of your interviewers (i.e. residents) may not ever even see your numbers. A truism common to the previous posts is that the biggest determinant of a program's rank list is the general feeling about the 'fit' of an applicant. Your feeling about where you best fit should be your number one criterion as well when it comes to making your rank list. I ranked the program where I matched ahead of several more "prestigious" programs. After all, you're going to have to be in the trenches 80 hours per week for up to 6-7 years, so you'd better like the people/program you're with!

 

[redbeans]

I'm always baffled by this "fit" that people are looking for.

Does that mean if all the residents tend to like sports they'll look for someone with similar tastes? Or more generally if it's a stiffer, nose-to-the grind bunch they wouldn't really choose a goofy party guy/gal and vise versa? Or do they try to glean specific academic interests?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'm always baffled by this "fit" that people are looking for.

Does that mean if all the residents tend to like sports they'll look for someone with similar tastes?

Yes.

Or more generally if it's a stiffer, nose-to-the grind bunch they wouldn't really choose a goofy party guy/gal and vise versa?

Yes.

Or do they try to glean specific academic interests?

Perhaps.

Its no different than any other small social group - whether its a fraternity, an office staff or residency. We want to be around people who are like us.

 

[jubb]

I'm always baffled by this "fit" that people are looking for.

Does that mean if all the residents tend to like sports they'll look for someone with similar tastes? Or more generally if it's a stiffer, nose-to-the grind bunch they wouldn't really choose a goofy party guy/gal and vise versa? Or do they try to glean specific academic interests?

It's a vibe thing that you feel on interaction with those people. A couple of the interviews I went to, I just felt totally out of sync when hanging out with the residents. Conversations and jokes just didn't flow, totally different interests inside and outside of medicine.

If you were picking a person to fit into your closest group of friends, you wouldn't base it totally on interests or hobbies, but more how they flowed within your group of friends.

I think once you start interviewing the "fit" thing will be pretty obvious. It's difficult to describe in definite terms, but usually you get pretty good at assessing it after a few interviews.

 

[Bitsy3221]

I've heard from some people that the interview doesn't really count much when trying to gain a surgical residency position; these people say that grades (class grades, board scores, etc.) count more.

Vice versa, some people say the interview has some considerable weight because that is when interviewers can weed out people and determine who really has the passion for surgery.

So when vying for a surgical residency position, how much weight does the interview really carry?

Agree that the interview carries a significant amount of weight.

I've talked with several attendings about this at several different institutions, and what everyone else said is true--it about how the candidate "fits" with the program and vice cersa. If they are offering you an interview, you can assume that they academically think you are qualified for their program. Now they want to meet the person. I honestly don't even think they are looking for your "passion for surgery" either. Sure, they want to try and make sure you aren't a total slacker or you are going to quit, but the biggest thing they are looking for is to see if you are trustworthy, and frankly a cool person they can sit and have a conversation with.

As you will see, most of your interviews will have nothing to do with surgery at all. I talked about everything from college football to triathlons to wine to gangster rap in my interviews. One of my attendings said it best when he said in the OR one day "I'm going to see these people as much as my family, and I don't want to hang out with a bunch of dorks"

 

[IcedTea]

Thanks all for the extra responses, much appreciated.

 

[IcedTea]

Agree that the interview carries a significant amount of weight.

I've talked with several attendings about this at several different institutions, and what everyone else said is true--it about how the candidate "fits" with the program and vice cersa. If they are offering you an interview, you can assume that they academically think you are qualified for their program. Now they want to meet the person. I honestly don't even think they are looking for your "passion for surgery" either. Sure, they want to try and make sure you aren't a total slacker or you are going to quit, but the biggest thing they are looking for is to see if you are trustworthy, and frankly a cool person they can sit and have a conversation with.

As you will see, most of your interviews will have nothing to do with surgery at all. I talked about everything from college football to triathlons to wine to gangster rap in my interviews. One of my attendings said it best when he said in the OR one day "I'm going to see these people as much as my family, and I don't want to hang out with a bunch of dorks"

LOL gangster rap is something I can definitely talk about

 

[ExtraCrispy]

I talked about everything from college football to triathlons to wine to gangster rap in my interviews. "

heh heh....the gangsta rap interview didn't happen to be at Mass General, did it?

 

[razor411]

one of my attending told me, when he interview people, he try to picture this guy as a intern on call for him, can sleep well if this guy is on call.

 

[DrDre311]

heh heh....the gangsta rap interview didn't happen to be at Mass General, did it?

I had a gangsta rap interview at Scott & White in Temple, TX. Interviewer had done residency in Houston and wanted to know what I thought about Paul Wall and Slim Thugg. I told him I liked Al Kapone and especially Three-Six better--maybe that is why I matched somewhere else.

 

[Castro Viejo]

I had a gangsta rap interview at Scott & White in Temple, TX. Interviewer had done residency in Houston and wanted to know what I thought about Paul Wall and Slim Thugg. I told him I liked Al Kapone and especially Three-Six better--maybe that is why I matched somewhere else.

Hmmm... I'm surprised he didn't bust a cap in yo' a$$!

(Do the kids still say that?)

 

[46&2]

Did not even interview at the program I got sent to- that's how the military rolls. I did get a couple of phone calls from the military, and told them I'd rather go to Dayton, Greenville, the Hollywood Upstairs School of Medicine, etc.